I have been shooting some 135 gr Sierra Matchkings through my .270. Accurate, but not real impressive performance on PD's. I am contemplating trying 110gr Hornady V-max's. I have read the Berger VLD's are pretty explosive. Any one use them on small varmints?

I've never used a VLD for varmints...I have used a Berger match bullet a couple of times on gophers. It worked, but penciled through. I would imagine the VLD would work, I don't see how trying would hurt any! Let us know when you do and how it worked out for ya.

I want to find something with a decent BC that will perform like a varmint bullet. The Matchkings are already penciling. I'm looking for explosive results. My intent is to break my current distance record of 562 yards on marmots this fall, so I want something that will disable those tough critters before they get back down the hole.

I would be concerned about ricochets with anything but a soft point bullet. I understand the hollow Match Kings and others like them are more accurate but one ricochet into a farmer’s equipment or animal will ruin a P-Dog or varmint hunt in a hurry. IMHO

Where I hunt marmots it is mountains, big ones. I am hunting above timberline where the backstops are 12 and 13 thousand foot peaks. I am shooting into steep hill sides and there are no ranches, equipment, or livestock around. Not concerned about ricochet.

My instinct is to recomend the VMAXS based on their accuracy in everthing from 17Fireball to 300 SAUM. They work! They are accurate. They are readily available and they WORK.........I mentioned that before. Now to the AMAX'S..........I question whether there is a real difference in the AMAX's and the VMAX's in construction. I've shot the AMAX's in 6mm's and 6.5mm's(260 Remington)and tested their explosiveness on vermin at close range(250-400 yards) and they will open up a groundhog from "asshole to earbone" when presented with a "Texas Heart Shot" presentation. VMAXS would do the same. Accuracy at the bench can be judged by VMAX accuracy in any given caliber they are made for. And the VMAXS in the little guys(17's and 20's) are the "go to" bullets.(The exception being in a 204 where the 39 grain SIERRA BLITZKING generally will be more accurate than the 40 grain VMAX and is quite efficient!!) In the .224's, the 50 and 55 grain VMAXS are second to none in accuracy and explosiveness. I will test the 52 grain AMAX's from a 22-250 within days at extended ranges. In the 6's and 6.5's the AMAXS perform as well as the VMaxs. I don't think a richoshet problem will present itself with the AMAX's. HORNADY makes good projectiles! VMAX, AMAX, whatever. SIERRA makes accurate projectiles with adequate explosiveness when dealing with vermin concerning their BlitzKings. SIERRA GAMEKINGS and PRO-HUNTERS are made for hunting big game with great accurcy and performance that does not vary.........GREAT! Sierra's MK bullets are the stuff when wanting to punch little bitty holes containing multiple shots in a miniscule area but they fall far short of being humane and decisively efficint for hunting rounds on any game from vermin to deer. Here's the GHD bullet rating gathered from a lot of years shooting a lot of varmint/deer (deers is varmints too!!):
1)Sierra..........ACCURACY with Exploxiveness in the small calibers(BlitzKings), ACCURACY with EFFICIENT killing in the medium ranges (6mm-308)
2) Hornady............absolute Blood and Guts bullets whether they be AMAX, VMAX, Spire Points whatever!! Hornady is going to bring some blood!
3) Speer............Decent mix of accuracy and B&G!! Not the most accurate, not the most explosive......just good bullets at affordable prices.
4) Remington CL, CLHP.............affordable, decently accurate, buy in bulk and save some money.
5) all the rest......Berger, Barnes, Swift, whomever.........trying to make a name for themselves and some of thier offerings are quite good but performance compared to the tried and true is not worth the price difference.
There you have!! The gospel on bullets according to GHD!! Flame if you will! GHD

+1 on VMAX bullets. Outstanding accuracy and explosive performance. You won't go wrong there. And, they are more affordable than VLD's.

I've used VLD's in .224 out of a .223 and a 22-250 with good performance. No fleas on those bullets at all.

I just seem to shoot better with the Nosler BT's for accuracy, by a whisper, and performance, again by a whisper over the VLD.

I use 52 gr A-Max's in my 22-250 and they work. I used 58 gr V-Max's in a .243 pushed from the muzzle at 3700 fps. They worked too. I haven't tried to make a .270 into a varmint rifle before, so I appreciate your thoughts and experiences. The 110 gr V-Max's are next on my list.

The nice BC helps them get there at long range, but they're really not "explosive" like the vmax types. At shorter range I'd use those. At long ranges the VLD can turn a miss into a hit, but it's nothing special to see.

I'm not expecting explosive at longer ranges. The 58 gr. v-max's, at ranges much past 400 yds., were no longer explosive, but they did expand enough to make a difference,even beyond 500 yds. and that is what I am hoping to find.

Went out tonight and shot a little at 550 yards. After a few foulers a six shot string went 2.5" for five shots, and a flyer opened it to 3 3/4". Those matchkings do shoot well from this rifle. I've got 3 of these Coopers, and they are the best deal I have ever found in a guaranteed accurate rifle at a relatively reasonable price.

A bullet is a device whose main purpose is to transfer kinetic energy to a target in the most efficient manner. Various targets absorb terminal energy in different ways.

Match bullets are not intended to impart energy to a target in the same way that a hunting bullet is. The target bullet is intended to maximize accuracy and punch neat little holes in paper.

Varmint bullets are design to impart maximum energy to thin skinned animals with little mass. These generally are hollow point or more recently plastic tipped reactive bullets.

Hunting bullets for medium game are intended to impart energy deeper within the target so as to affect internal organs. These are generally partition or soft point bullet that we generally see in hunting ammunition.

Full metal jacket bullets are intended to impart energy through deep penetration of very large animals with little or no expansion.

Now if it were me selecting bullets I would take advantage of the designer's intent and benefit from this optimal terminal performance.

I have been using the MK with better results than I expected. I have killed 5 marmots in the past couple weeks at ranges from 600 to 690 yards. Even at those ranges the bullets are doing sufficient damage to kill quick. When it gets daylight this morning I'm heading out to try break the 700 yard mark.

Berger VLDs are NOT varmint bullets! They are like FMJs and are not designed to fragment or expand. They are butt-heavy because most of the front of the projectile is hollow- however, the nose opening is microscopic and non-functional. They have extremely high BCs and shoot flat and retain a lot of energy. but they act like ice-picks generally when compared to V-maxs. The very best Vmax is the 87gr 6mm, with a BC of .400 and it works fantastically at just about any velocity, really WHOMPING and possessing considerable "lob factor". They react well when striking the ground, making it relatively easy to call shots. I have had instant kills on groundhogs as far as 1135 yds out of my Shilen barrreled Rem700 6mm. Speaking of the .270, I shot about 1200 110 V-maxs, killing many chucks, but very few over 800 yds. The bullets seemed to track my trajectory chart out to about 650yds and then drop like a rock from there on out. I couldn't figure this out until I read an article in Varmint Hunter Mag about overstabilization caused by spinning light-for caliber bullets so fast that they descend in a nose-up attitude instead of nosing over normally in a nose-straight-into-the-air attitude. Obviously nose-up would lower the BC dramatically and get drastically worse at longer ranges. My Shilen barrelled 6mm has a 1:10 twist, which is perfect for 87 V-max @ 3400 fps. It also works with 105 Amax and VLD as well- which surprised me a little, though they were going 3250fps (all moly coated). This rifle will shoot half-inch 100 yd groups with any of these bullets. IMHO the 6mm is a far better varminter than the .270.

That's some pretty good info on your 6mm, Chuckmusher. It's one of my favorite calibers too but I don't have any kills at distances remotely as far as yours.
Thanks for the info you posted on light for caliber bullets.
Are you seating your bullets out further than spec?

Cliff, Thanks for your kind remarks. My rifle is built on a long action Sendero, which formerly was my .270 hog gun. The 87 V-max is loaded to 2.925" oal, which just works the best from trial and error. I loaded Berger 105 VLDs @ 3.50"! I realize that a short action is stiffer, but I used what I had and have been pleased with it. The barrel is maybe just a little heavier profile than the original barrel and started out being 28". I was shooting moly coated 87 V-maxs with 50 gr of Reloder 19 and getting 3575 fps! After several hundred rounds the groups started opening up and I had the gunsmith remove an inch off the back end and rethread and rechamber the barrel. He also said my load was too hot and to take off a grain. So now I have a 27" bbl, a 49 grain R19 load that goes 3400 fps with fine accuracy and maybe a little less wear.

chuckmusher, thanks for your input. The info. about overstabilization is new to me. The 135 SMK's seem to be following my chart pretty well out to 740yds, but it was so gusty last weekend I came home. I have to pack a couple hunters in this weekend, but if I can squeeze it in, I'll go out and try again. I have been considering another .243, but not in the budget right now. Have you tried the 95 gr SMK's in your 6mm? They look pretty good on paper.

Chuckmusher,
Just keep talking, I'm taking notes! Thanks again.

Cliff and cobrad, Chuckmusher leads no one astray with his analysis! How do I know that? I was on the lathe when his chamber was made on HIS LONG ACTION ORIGINAL SENDERO 270!! I was on the chamber fixture when it was trued! That boy could load a 300 grain 6mm bullet and not run out of lands!! But it shoots pretty darn god with the 87's! It will handle the 105's but doesn't need too. Have I told you all about the groundhog he shot...............was not the first shot but maybe the 10th.......that he made at 1515 yards with this rifle? Couldn't range to the groundhog! Leica or Nikon 1200's. Ranged to a tree and then "guestimated" and about the 10th shot the groundhog died!! 87 grain VMAX! Went to the groundhog and then ranged back to the tree + set up site to tree =1515 yards! Bobby's 6mm will shoot!! Cooper, Shilen, Hart would like to turn out this kind of stuff! (Shilen had a hand in it because it was a Shilen 30" blank that had meticoulously machining to acheive this level of accuracy!!)
Last week I loaded up a few 87 grain VMAXS ahead of 40.0 grains of Varget and they shot in the .3's with my 6mm at 3330fps. Shot them last weekend on the hunt and they performed rather well. C=Bobby was impressed and asked me for the load. He tried the same load in his 6mm and got 3333fps with a ragged hole!! His groups were probaly "screamers"!!(his rifle is a bit more "custom" than mine!! And how much difference did the groundhog know between the velocity being 3415 vs 3330? Probably not much! How dead is dead? Bottom line is that the 6mmRemington +the 87 grain HORNADY VMAX is a lethal combination at a long distance! And I can tell you that Bobby has not tried anything other than the 87's or 105's in that rifle...........................why try anything else? Sierra MK's are GREAT at punching paper!! Probably the best production bullets out there for that. Functionality in the varmint fields?.................NOT!! GHD

cobrad, Don't EVEN get him started on that darn Tikka T3 Lite SS in .243!! Still utilizing the 87 grain VMAXS!! Seen it in action! On MY TRIPODS! It works! GHD

Awww man, yer gettin me all worked up here. I'm packing elk hunters this weekend, but my head is a few miles above them where the whistle pigs live! I had a custom 6mm years ago that was my first custom and was death on 'hogs, but I didn't know enough at the time to realize the potential for long range. I sold a Kimber Montana in .243 to fund this Cooper. My first choice bullet was that 87 gr. V-Max, but I couldn't get the gun to shoot them well enough to fit the purpose, which was an ultra-light rifle, for above timberline marmots, that would still be accurate enough for 5-6-700 yard shooting. The only load I came up with that was useable - accurate enough, was 58 gr. V-Max's pushed by IMR 4064 to 3700 fps. It shot around 3/4" with that load. I used it to make my furthest shots at 561 yards, but that was pushing it for both it's accuracy and that relatively low BC bullet. That was the best I could get that rifle to shoot. Should have bought a NULA for the purpose. Any way, I'm jonesing for another .243 specifically for 'hogs and you guy's are fueling the fire.

Am thinking about having a 6mm built. What platform would you guys recommend? I just had a 257 Bob built on a T3 LH .243 and dearly love the Tikka rifles.
Thoughts?

Gobrad, I respectfully ask that you forget about match bullets for shooting varmints. I used to think that the flat trajectory of light fast bulletsver, as well as their enhanced explosiveness, was more important than crosswind resistance and retained energy. However, with the advent of laser rangefinders and excellent dialable scopes like Leupolds, range compensation has become a lot easier than windage(SWAG factor) estimation. The 6mm 87gr V-max is just about the optimum combination of all these qualities we need. I have loaded many different rifles with them and have had few problems. Sometimes you have to develop your own load that may not be in a reloading manual, or would not normally be thought to be a reasonable combination. In my Tikka T3 .243, the best load for that rifle (instead of a slow powder like R-19) is 37gr IMR4064 for 3050 fps in a 23" bbl. That powder is also less noisy, cleaner, and has less recoil than a much bigger charge of a slower powder. Recoil is important in a 6# gun when you want to spot your own hits. It shoots half-inch groups with this load, as well as with 75 V-max and 70 Nosler BTs. This is the first rifle I've ever owned that didn't have to be tweaked in some way to make it shoot right! Its hit ratio(even including GHD's referenced 450 yd "force field" chuck) has been amazingly good.

chuckmusher, I agree with your last post. As noted earlier I had planned to use the 87 gr. V-Max, for the same reasons you have stated, had my .243 shot them well. At the same time the 95gr Match King offers a higher BC of .480 and I have had good success with MK's in the past. I am currently having great success with the 135 gr .277 MK and it is expanding sufficient to kill reliably out to 690 yards, and counting.

At over 700 yards it's all about BC in my opinion, particularly if you have a range finder and a ballistics chart. Gravity is predictable, wind less so. About the only way to deal with wind from an equipment standpoint is higher BC. Spend some time with a ballistics program and run all of your candidate loads and see which ones you think make sense for that range. It would be nice to have a vmax bullet for that range, but when a VLD can shave off several MOA in windage on a 1 MOA target I think it makes more sense to trade terminal performance for probability of hit. Maybe you could carry a few different loads, and on dead calm days use the vmax.

My range has been extended to 749 yards. I got two last weekend, one at 730, the next at 749. Performance is definitely not explosive, not even close, but there is enough expansion to do the job. The 730 yarder rolled off the rock... done. The 749 rolled down the hill, crawled 10 yards more, and done as well. This load is working. No need to work up another. Now it's grouse, ptarmigan, and soon, elk season. Next years' goal for 'hogs is to break 800 yards.

cobrad, BTDT!! 832 with an 87 grain VMAX from the 6mm. Chuckmusher as well as John Fisher and his farmhand witnessed it. BIG CHUCK eating grass left to right. Gave him "1 groundhog length" windage and drilled him up side the head!! Through the scope I saw the impact and his butt lift off the ground while head stayed down! Then the "tail flag"! PRICELESS!! Next years goal for me is 1000 yards and I'll bet it's an 87 grain VMAX in 6mm or a 140AMAX in .264....................CHUCKMUSHER...........It ain't frosted yet!! Let's get me to the 1000 yard mark before winter sets in! GHD

Whats BTDT? (bear with me, I'm a little slow)I'm thinking of rebarreling my 22-250 and chambering for one of the .243/6mm's to shoot for the 1K mark. The rifle is a Cooper with the heavy barrel, but the 22-250 with 14 twist is not the right tool for the job. And congrats on a loooong shot!

cobrad, GHD means we have "been there and did that"! I have another friend who rebarreled a 22-250 700 to 6mm AI and installed a mzzle brake and a super light Jewel trigger. He and I hunted together many times and made many long shots. The 6mm AI will easily reach 3600fps with 87 V-maxs. However, in the field, the difference between it and my 28-inch Shilen bbl 6mm was slight, plus it made a lot more racket and was more of a hassle to load(fireforming brass, etc). This fellow, who has sadly been waylaid by Parkinson's, was spotting for me one day when I killed a quart-sized groundhog on the first shot at 1005 yards! I've witnessed some of his fine shots,as well, including a few 800 yd ones, plus an instant kill on a big coyote at 647 yds. He was the one who introduced me to the idea of using a ballistic chart and cranking up the elevation on our Leupold scopes to make those super long shots. I really miss hunting with him, always called him "Mr. Precision".

jpl, I used to do exactly what you are proposing- different loads for different conditions. However, I found it easy to "out-smart"myself and mess up the windage when switching between those target(high BC) and 87vmax bullets. The 105 Amax and Berger 105 VLD also did not perform as well on groundhogs, were much harder to spot hitting the ground, and were a lot more likely to richochet. I finally got tired of fooling with all that extra complexity and began to stick with my favorite Vmax loads, even on windy days. It also helps my SWAG estimates to be using the same load all the time!