Don't anyone make fun of me - I know I am sick!
I bought another Varmint Rifle last week!
I was at the big Seattle area Gunshow the weekend of the 5th and 6th of August.
I came across a nice looking Remington Model 700 BDL in caliber 17 Remington!
I had two tables full of my and my friends wares and I had a little mad money to begin with anyway - I was busy.
I saw this nifty Rifle early Saturday morning and looked it over pretty well. It had some scars on the stock but the bolt face and bore looked minty and perfect! Overall about 95% I graded it.
In my estimation and after cool consideration it was worth a gamble I decided!
At $400.00 I thought, I couldn't loose much!
I went back to my own table to think it over - carefully.
I sold some of my gear and decided to head back and buy the 17 caliber Rifle - alas, it was gone!
I was miffed and recanted the oft repeated ditty (especially at Gunshows it seems!) "ya snooze - ya loose" to myself!
All was not lost though as my old friend Armand was aware of the transaction I was miffed about.
Bright and early Sunday morning Armand showed up with a pristine Remington 700 BDL in aaahhhh.... - 17 Remington caliber!
99% condition - if I do say so myself!
I looked it over carefully, no bedding, no crowning, I scoped the bore with my Siebert Bore Inspection Tool - flawless here as well. Then I bargained my friend down to $350.00 (which included a nice set of Leupold bases and medium rings - gloss finish).
The trigger had been tuned to a "T"!
It was VERY light and had no perceptible creep what so ever!
Remington makes GOOD triggers!
I had come across five boxes (99 pieces only) of Remington new factory brass the day before (during table set up time!) and nearly broke my wrist getting my wallet out, when the woman that owned them stated she would sell me all five boxes for $10.00!
17 Remington brass is for some UNKNOWN reason rather pricey these days!
I had come across a beautiful Zeiss Made in West Germany 3x9 Diavari-C variable scope at a pawn shop here in SW Montana a few weeks back! I bought this scope and an older Redfield 3x9 Widefield scope both for $220.00! The pawn shop owner is feeling the high gas price induced lack of tourist traffic/business crunch real bad!
I sold the Redfield Widefield the first day of the Seattle show for $75.00! So I was into the Zeiss for relatively NOTHING!
The Zeiss has the AMERICAN style narrow opening and thin overall Du-plex reticle!
Once I got home I mounted the Zeiss on my new 17 Remington, bore sighted it with my newish Leupold Magnetic style bore sighter and then began to wait patiently for the hot winds to calm down.
This morning was the time for testing and I only had ammo ready (on hand) from one of my other 17 Remingtons Rifles.
This handloaded ammo consisted of Remington Nickel plated brass, Remington 7 1/2 primers, IMR 4320 powder and Berger Moly-coated 25 gr. MEF bullets. This ammo fit in the new Remingtons chamber with no problemo's and I was ready to shoot!
Early this morning I tried one shot on my friends private "tunnel like" range at 25 yards and the shot was nearly dead center. Another atta-boy to the folks at Leupold (Made in China!) for the new prismatic/magnetic type bore sighter!
I then went to the 100 yard target board and put up two targets for 100 yard "load testing" (Rifle testing!). I usually use a lot more power on my Varmint scopes than a 3x9 so I added all sizes of orange dots to the two different style targets I put up.
I only had about twenty rounds total and I fired a three shot group on the first target that proved my friend Armands statement that this Remington 17 shot "real well".
Once back at home this group measured .571" and I was quite happy even back then at the range that I could shoot as well as that, with a 9 power scope!
After this group I made about a 7" total adjustment for windage and elevation to get my point of impact closer to my point of aim.
Then I switched to my old standby load testing target the official Bench Rest type.
This target has a 1" black square that has a 1/2" white square inside that. The Zeiss scopes reticle made an almost pure black image when the reticle was "centered" in this white square. The finest of discernible white lines apeared "around" my reticle when perfectly centered!
The "surprising" three shot group on this target measured .432" and probably showed the improvement because of the "better" aim point for the scopes reticle!
I was really impressed with this performance even though the groups were only 3 shotters.
I was saving the ammo for "bloodying" this new to me Varminter.
It did not take long! My friends range is in prime Ground Squirrel country but their summer hibernation is starting up and I had to "wait" a full five minutes while listening to the Rush Limbaugh Show on the VarmintMobiles radio (guest host today - drat!) before a Varmint ran into view.
This Varmint was literally "erased" when the Berger MEF met him at 100 yards distance!
I mean he was wiped away!
WOW - I thought.
I shot three more Gophers and then purified a few flying Varmints that were feeding on a carcass in another corner of my friends ranch.
This Zeiss scope has a quick focus feature and/or parallax adjustment (no instructions came with this used scope).
I LIKE this scope/Rifle combo and I now have a very attarctive and classy AND surprisingly accurate "walking Varminter" for the winter Fox, Coyote and Bobcat season here in my little corner of the Rocky Mountains.
The scope has a 36mm objective lense and about a 42mm focal lense. I may have a tough time finding scope covers for it - but that will be done by winter - I am sure.
I dare not breathe a word of this latest purchase to the VarmintWife or she will make my life miserable for a week or two, I am sure!
She got wind of another Varminter I bought a few weeks back and she was a little snooty (miffed) about that purchase!
She just does not understand me like she used to.
Yeah.
I may try the 30 gr. Bergers in this Rifle as many of our winter days are windy and I need an excuse for shooting this rig at the range some more.
I am so convinced that doing load testing on days when there is moving air (wind) is futile!
Every time I shoot on windless days I become more and more convinced that windless conditions are the only "true" tests of ones loads (and shooting ability)!
Now to get some loads of this Rifles "own" made up. Then I will venture over to a Rock Chuck lair I know about and harvest three or four of them!
Long live the 17 Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

So does this mean you're giving up on the .204 Ruger? Seriously, congrats on the rifle. Sounds like a nice rig!

quote:

Originally posted by Varmintguy:
She just does not understand me like she used to.

No VG I think she understands you.

AZ223: Negative on giving up on the 204! The 204's have earned a place of HIGH honor in my Varminting arsenal!
But the 17 Remington does a lot of things and a lot of things very well!
I got to take the "new" 17 Remington along on a combination Moose scouting/Varmint Hunting/fishing trip last Thursday, Friday and Saturday!
My friend was very impressed with it as well.
I did not have a lot of ammo for it but we put the whack on several Jack Rabbits, some high country Ground Squirrels (8,000' +) and some flying Varmints that were lulled into complacency enough to allow 200 yard distant, terminations - so to speak!
This Zeiss scope IS clear!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

varmintguy,congrats on the rifle and that Ginn clear Zeiss, i owned a bdl years ago never gave it a fair shake,i can rest in peace knowing your going too shoot that baby enough 4 the both of us . and regards jjmp

VG, let me know if you would like some of the loads I use in my custom 17 Remington. Mine is a SS Interarms MM, with a great looking stock, 25" SS light taper Shilen barrel and wears a Nikon Monarch 4-12x40.

I have worked up good loads using the 20 grain vmax, 25 grain vmax and Hornady HP and Berger 30 grain bullets.

The Shilen tube has a 1-9 twist and shoots the 20, 25 and 30's very well. The 30's are a very good coyote bullet.

Mike.

Stormbringer: Thank you for the generous offer on your loads and if I may ask only for the 30 grain load (your favorite!) in your 17 Remington.
I will try the 30's this late fall after the Big Game season is over and before the winter and prime Fur season gets here.
Thanks in advance
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I live in Australia and have just purchased a mint second hand Remington BDL in .17 Rem.

As I intend to handload, would be VERY grateful if anyone could give me some recommended loads. I will no doubt use ADI powder ( made by Australian Defence Industries) as it is so widely available and often Australian loads are only developed using this powder. However, many handloaders also us US made powder depending on calibre and application.

Be grateful for any assistance.

Thanks.

Robert

I think that your ADI powder vary a little from what is shipped to the US so I'm not going to give you any exact data. But Benchmark is a pretty good one with 25 Gr. bullets.

Robert Cudlipp: I have been using Remington brass in my 17 Remington's - both Nickel plated brass and regular brass.
No complaints.
Then I have been using 25 gr. Berger bullets in my Rifles as well - I hope these are available "down under" for you to try!
They are pleasingly accurate AND very lethal on Varmints. Consistently lethal at that.
And here is a strange one!
For some reason (a few years back!) I quit using my "universal" primers for Small Rifles - the wonderful Federal 205 Match primers! And I went to using Remington 7 1/2 primers in them!
Now, try as I might, I can NOT remember WHY I switched!!!
I use the Federal 205 M's in EVERY Rifle I shoot - except the 17 Remington's.
I have searched my notes and loading log book til I am blue in the face and can not figure out the source of my motivation for switching to the Remington 7 1/2's!
I think it was something I read somewhere?
Any way I highly recommend the Remington 7 1/2's for your 17 Remington along with the 25 grain Bergers and the Remington brass (both styles!).
I am not familiar with your brand of "down under" powder so I can't help much there myself!
I just yesterday used my newest 17 Remington to put the whack on a bunch of Prairie Dogs, some Jack Rabbits, a Porcupine and some Varmints that fly - but landed to "close" to the wonderful little 17 Remington Rifle!
Best of luck with your new Remington!
Long live the 17 Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Vg the cups on the Remington primers are heavier and seem to hold up better under hot loads.

quote:

As I intend to handload, would be VERY grateful if anyone could give me some recommended loads.

Robert, using other peoples' loads garnered from the internet is not a sensible recipe for a long and healthy life. ADI loads are available from their website, and a well covered in Nick Harvey's loading manuals.

John,

As I am sitting here typing this , I have Harvey's manual next to me. Am slowly working my way throught it.

Read his first version , outdated, bug I figured the basics would not have changed.

Also, have had the ADI manual for some time.

I think you may have gathered ,from recent AHN posts, that I am cautions as to loads. You were even good enough to offer me a loan on your scales.

Have the Lee Perfect Powder measure ( as I said on AHN) and in fact one on our more easily irritated members finally appeared to express a degree of exasperation at the level of safety I was seeking to adopt.

To avoid any confusion, I have no desire to use "hotloads" or push the envelope. Do not want turbocharged loads.

Just reliable and accurate, and above , SAFE.

I value my eyesight, hands, the welfare of other shooters who may be in my vicinity at times of shooting. Did not forget my life, but that is more than covered by significant life insuurance, however have no intention of leaving 3 sons without a father and my wife without a partner.

Thanks for your concern,

But rest assured , I am both apprehensive in a measured way, and do not consider myself a redneck. Others may class me a Collins St divorce lawyer , a suit etc, but this ignores the fact that I have worked , and still work in Werribee and the western suburbs for the last 20 years.

Robert.

Jb747: Yikes man!
I have been using loads "garnered" (recommended!) from the internet for 15 years now!
And before that I used "recommended" loads from other handloaders for the 32 years just prior to my becoming computer literate!
I, am still alive and healthy (knock on wood!).
No one on this thread has posted an unsafe load!
Or ANY load for that matter!
Why I seek and out AND share loads via the internet (and by word of mouth) is to get "accurate, clean burning, speedy and easy flowing etc etc etc, type loads!
I, like to know, a REAL PERSON has used a load before I make some of them up!
I of course ALWAYS double check "recommended loads" via other safe sources!
Nothing wrong there!
I have had recommended loads solve ALL manner of loading troubles I have had, in years past!
AND, I have been influenced by peoples first hand recommendations many dozens of times - and I am certain these recommendations have saved me not only time but MONEY as well in my search for accurate, safe, speedy loadings!
Yes, safety is of the utmost importance in our hobby (of handloading) and your UNDUE criticism of folks sharing their load recommendations is puzzling to me???
I have never heard of a person being "killt" by a "recommended" handload!
So, your inference that Robert (or anyone else!) will LIVE longer by heeding your recommendation against using "recommended" loads, is, unfounded.
The reason I did not give my powder charge and type to Robert in this instance is it appears to me Robert is using powder I have no access to and no experience with!
Long live the 17 Remington and handloading.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Dittos! What VG said.

Did i read that right??

VG-.204 bought a .17 remington??

Say it isn't so........

Get some 30gr Golds (woodchuck den)
.270 B.C., Awesome....

17 Rem: Yes you heard (read!) right!
I own a passle (is that a word?) of Rifles in calibers other than 204 Ruger!
In fact the 17 Remington cartridge is one of the top ten "all around Varminting cartridges of all time"!
IMHO!
It does so many things so well I recommend all new Varmint Hunters consider one for all around Varminting uses.
Speed KILLS!
Its just that simple!
Not just the velocity factor makes the 17 Remington "lethal" its the resulting flat trajectory and straight shooting that results from its speed!
At a recent Gunshow in Butte, Montana a fellow from Spokane, Washington had on his table a BEAUTIFUL (and OLD!) H&R Ultra-Wildcat in 17/223, if I recall the caliber correctly!
Anyway it was priced at $1,250.00!!!
A little strong for satisfying my "nostalgia" rush!
I have been secretly looking for one of these Rifles for many, many years now!
I first contemplated one of these H&R Ultra-Wildcats back about 1969 (IIRC?) and I "hesitated joining the ranks of "17" shooters" for many many years!
This was a MISTAKE of large proportion!
I had fallen victim to the "rumor mill" racing around 17 caliber centerfire Rifles and wasted 25 years until I bought my first 17 centerfire Rifle!
Again - my bad being so naive and easily led astray!
My four current 17 caliber centerfire Varminters are all quite accurate and wonderful performers in the Varmint fields!
If I had to choose though between a 17 Remington Rifle and an exactly comparable Rifle in, say, 204 Ruger, for my choice as an "all around Varminter" - I would choose the 204 Ruger hands down!
That choice diminishes the 17 Remington not one iota!
Thanks for the tip on the 30 grain Golds.
I appreciate it.
Long live the 17 Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well,
that's good to hear.
ya finally made it to the light after 25 yrs.

I try not to listen to pessimists who are ignorant and clueless,
I have to find out myself,heck there's a lot of folks out there that couldn't seat a bullet straight with a benchrest die,
and could break an anvil with a rubber mallet,
these are the same type that'll tell ya .2 grs too much powder in your .17 centerfire will cause the firearm to explode into a starburst of molten steel in a 50yd radius,or ya gotta clean the barrel every 2 shots,
or that such and such equipment/gun is a piece of junk.
you always have to consider the source(s).
Just so long as you don't get completly swept away in the .204/.17HMR sales campaign frenzie..
The .17 Rem has been around since the early 70's and is still a darling.

I have both a mint "vintage" Bron Hornet and an as new Remington BDL .17Rem.

How would forum members rate the respective strenghts and weakness of these similarly sized calibres.

17 Remington: Not so fast - I have, in FACT, been swept away by BOTH the 17 HMR and the 204 Ruger!
But believe me it WAS NOT the sales hype that convinced me about the superiority of these two "new" cartridges!
What "swept me away" with both of them was their superior tarjectories, wind bucking ability and lethality on Varmints!
THEN, on top of that BOTH cartridges are splendidly accurate!
What is not to be impressed with in both of these cartridges?

Judas Priest!
I just heard on the radio that gasoline is down to $2.05 a gallon in Iowa!
Hallelujah!
I may be able to afford to go Big Game Hunting this fall after all!

Back to the 17 Remington - I feel the 17 Remington is also a pretty accurate little number itself!
I think its Cal Sibley from the Canadian Rockies that has a 17 Remington that burps up some great groups followed by rather blase groups!
None of my 17's exhibit that attribute but it always pays to look upon each Rifle as an individual (because they are!). Having said that (and known that fact for 45 years now!) I still adhere to the credo that the 204 Ruger and the 17 HMR are both INHERENTLY accurate cartridges!
There is absolutely no doubt that the 17 HMR is the most accurate rimfire cartridge (at ranges approching and past 100 yards!) out there! And, my first hand accounts and observations show that the 204 Ruger cartridge to be capable of sensational accuracy. Universally accurate is how I like to describe the 204 calibered Rifles!
More later - repairman coming up the drive!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Robert ,
You and I are researching the same thing . As you are aware I recently bought a Sako L461 in .17 . Have had no luck with the 25gn Hornady HP with AR 2208 , Win 748 or Reloder 15 . Have ordered some 25gn Bergers this week .
You might like to Google Coyotegods . Lots of .17 info. there . They seem to favour Reloder 15 (around 22.5 gns with 25gn projectiles) which is why I have just bought some . Maximum is 22.8gns and showed no pressure signs in the Sako .
I'm using the Remington 7 1/2 primer in Remington cases .

I own one of the original .17 Rem. BDLs from years back. It has the same Monte Carlo stock of the knew ones, but that's it. This baby is made in the USA (are the new ones really made in Asia?), a stainless steel barrel and a case hardened reciever. This thing has shot caribou, seals, birds, and all manner of small game. I don't have a scope, but from a rested position she can put a bulletout to 4 hundred yards with "reletive" accuracy. Hunting of course would be in the 2 hundred visinity. Good gun! Hope you truly enjoy yours. And buy brass whenever you can! The Remington Core Lokt is damn expencive.

I've went thru 2 17 tubes, one factory and one Shilen.

I liked the round but honestly don't feel I will ever own one again.

Main reason is for me to hold on to those darn lil 17 bullets while seating really sucks.

I did see that Horn is now making a VM for it and that could be kind of fun.

I also used it to take a couple of lopes and whitetail and mule deer and it worked just fine.

I used some of the old Barnes 25 grain original soft points and it did the trick.

Have fun with that lil rig.

Mark D