In comparing standard calibers rather than wildcats for varmints how does the 25-06 stack up against the 223 and 22-250?

Mellison: I have owned several 25/06 Rifles in the past and have only Hunted Coyotes with them - and way back when the 25/06 was a brand new commercial round I did some long range Rock Chuck Hunting with one. The main reasons I do not use them for Colony Varminting or much else anymore Varminting wise is because of recoil - reason number one and recoil - reason number two! I try to avoid recoil religiously when Varminting and make all my Varminters "the heavier the better". I did use my Remington 700 SSDBM in 25/06 last fall while Antelope Hunting. It worked perfectly like I knew it would. I have a Leupold 4.5X14 scope on it and that Rifle would work very well on a windy day in winter for thinning the Coyotes here on the high plains! But you are not going to be spotting your own hits with a typical 25/06 Varminter! You might not even be able to see if the intended Varmint was hit as the recoil and recovery time from a 25/06 shot will make for a long gap in loss of sight picture through your scope!
25 caliber bullets are more expensive than 22 caliber Varmint bullets, more powder, less barrel life than a 223 by a lot, 223's will about universally be more accurate than a comparably set up 25/06 and I can not mention the recoil factor enough. I often shoot in one day at Colony Varmints 400 to 600 rounds (the most I have shot is 800 in one day at Prairie Dogs) of centerfire ammo. The thought of sending 500 25/06 rounds downrange in one day makes me shudder and gives me a headache!
You did not mention in your posting here on the Varmint Board what you were going to be Hunting in the way of Varmints but I would choose the 223 or 22-250 for an all around Varmint Rifle.
Good luck with whichever caliber you choose!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Thanks VarmintGuy, I grew up south of Missoula and go there often and more lately. Hope that I can find some shooting that is somewhat like yours within a couple of hours of there. You are right about the recoil as 75 rounds is about all I want to shoot at one time as it is. The last time I shot a 223 was in the service and remember no recoil compared to the M1.

The .25-06 will work fine for varmints as long as you don't mind not seeing the bullet hit. Recoil is manageable on light 60 and 75 grain bullets. My Ruger M77V weights right at 10 lbs., 5 oz. scoped and the recoil from it using 75 grain bullets is only about 5.5 to 6 lbs. An 9.3 lb. scoped .22-250 will give you close to 4.75 lbs. recoil. Personally I prefer the .22-250 but you can make do with the bigger .25-06. Lawdog

If I could only have one rifle(God forbid that becoming the law) it would be a 25-06!! Here in the east we don't get those 5-600 shots/day like Varmint Guy gets! As far as recoil goes, yes it's more than a 22-250 but I question how many hits you actually see with the 22-250! My second choice if I could only have one would be the 22-250 and have an undeniable fondness for that one too! But the 25-06 just gives you a more versatile round for all kinds of varmints! Using my Sendero with a 6.5-20 Leupold resting in a sand-filled UNCLE BUD'S bag, and shooting 57 grains of ReLoader 19 behind an 85 grain Nosler, I can see the "devastation" if the varmint is over 210 yards! Hence my pet name for the rifle, "Devastation Supreme"! GHD

My son and I were at the range Saturday shooting paper targets at 540 yards. His bone stock 25.06 Sendero shooting 75 grain V-Maxes was grouping, in good conditions, right at three inches. These were three-shot groups.
I was shooting a 6x284 with 75 grain V-Maxes. This rifle has been blueprinted, has a Shilen 12 twist barrel, Jewel trigger, 8x32x56 NXS Nightforce scope, Sheehan Tracker stock and my best groups were from 1.9 to 2.1 inches, three-shot groups. I would say for the money invested the Sendero won, wouldn't you?
And, yes, we use it on prairie dogs and limit the number of shots per day. When you really want to launch one or mistify one, nothing does it like the 25.06.

Groundhog Devastation and Gmorgan: You guys are making me antsy to get out and shoot my newest Sendero! I just mounted a Leupold 8.5X25X40mm scope on it last week. Mine is a new unfired 270 Winchester Sendero and I did a trigger job on it. I have ammunition and cleaning gear ready and waiting for windless conditions so I can do load development testing! I am glad your Sendero's are performing so well. I am a Remington kinda guy.
I have a Dog-Gone-Good bag with a shoulder strap on it. It is an improved version of the Uncle Buds Bags. It weighs more than any of my Rifles by itself - thus the shoulder carrying strap. And yes once a Varminter is "wedged" into this bag the felt recoil and muzzle jump is tamed somewhat. But carrying the heavy bag around with the Rifle gets old real fast and is not always quick to put in use either.
In my experience the 25/06 does not make a more "all around" or versatile Varminter. Quite the opposite. If a person is shopping (like Mellison apparently is) for a Varminter the 223 or the 22-250 will do a lot more with a lot less punishment, wear and tear, barrel heat up, recoil and expense than a 25/06! My Varminters are built heavy and usually shot off a tri-pod, bi-pod or small bunny type bags. I usually have no trouble spotting hits with any of the 223's or 22-250's I own.
Perhaps if a person was Hunting Coyotes or got just the occassional shots at Ground Hogs then a 25/06 would be useable and perform well. But spotting ones own hits I do not think is going to happen very often.
In the last month I have shot varying numbers (from 1 to several hundred) of the following Varmints - Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs, Cottontail Rabbits, Rock Chucks, Badger, Skunk, Magpie, Crows, Jack Rabbits and Porcupine. I can not recall once when shooting any of these Varmints thinking - gee I wish I had my 25/06 for that shot! 223's and 22-250's ARE the much more versatile rounds in my opinion. Especially if a person is shopping for their first Varminter!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The first P dog my son shot with is 25 06 was great got about 6 feet of air on that one. He dosesn't shoot all day with it but. When he takes her out we see some action Nothing like a 87 grer at 3400 to throw p dogs.

Mellison,
I've always thought of a 25/06 as more of a medium to big game cartridge,more in their element so to speak.
Varmintguy makes some excellent points in his post.
I noticed a Shilen DGA in .222Remington, that shoots in the 1's and 2's over in classifieds.Comes with some extra stuff for $850.00 I think. That would be more enjoyable to shoot. JMHO
Stepchild

I'm leery about the .25-06Rem. for varmints. It'll do the job for sure, but it's expensive to shoot, rather loud, and has an extremely long range. You really need a sparsely populated area to feel comfortable with its use. It you're hunting farming areas, the landowner is not apt to feel good about that powerful a weapon around his livestock. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I have a 25-06 varmint rig and a .223 varmint rig for hunting groundhogs in PA, and find that I enjoy both. I use the 25-06 for days I just want to sit and scope 400 yrd fields from under a shade tree. The 25 cal. bullets add consistency for those long shots that the .22 just cannot match.

The .223 is my walking gun, for sneaking along the fence rows and usually taking off-hand shots to 200 yards. Although the .223 is absolutely capable of hits beyond 200 yards, I prefer staying within my off hand shooting limits.

Pick the one you think best fits your wants......for it is one of the few things in life which afford me the oppertunity to please my wims rather than being totally practical!!!!

Greetings,

Last year, a mate and I spent some time on a farm, in the Northern Cape area of RSA. The area is extremely flat, dotted with mountains, which teem with our 'dassies'. Animals roughly the size of one's domestic cat.

He was armed with his Sako in .22-250, and I with my Musgrave in .25-06.
Sierra's 55g and 100g respectively.
Performance from both rifles was devastating, to say the least.

Average distance was 350 meters, with the longest shot going to the .22-250 at 535 meters.

I push the 100g SPBT at 3350 fps,and find it an excellent combination.

regards

If a guys gonna have just one varmint rifle I'd go with the 250,as mentioned the 25-06 has more recoil , plus it costs a lot more to shoot. The biggest draw back to only having the 25 is heat, also mentioned is the fact in a large population of chucks and especially in a dog town your either gonna sit there and watch your buddies shoot or your gonna melt your barrel. My solutions to these problems are as follows, my 26-06 is a 112BVSS Savage with a Canjar trigger and fire lapped, with a 6X20 Leupold and a Pachmeyer decelerator it weighs 13 1/2 lbs---there goes the recoil. The rifle is a true 1/2 inch or less rifle, frequently in the 2's and 3's, I must shoot a very similar load to Jaccurate because I chrono 100 grain Sierras at exactly the same velocity, 3,350ish. I'd hate to have to carry the beast far, but as a long range varminter it's hard to beat. My answer to the heat problem is I don't shoot it that much. When I hunt varmints I usually cover all bets, .17 HMR, maybe a .223, always a .22-250 ( I love em! )and my .25-06. From a 100 to 6 or 700 your covered without having to over shoot and abuse any of your favorites. Thats my answer, and it's also a good excuse to buy more firearms, always a good idea!---Shoot Safe---montdoug

I shoot a 25-06 Savage here in Kansas and I agree with the others, it is loud and has some heavy recoil. Last season I called in 26 coyotes and 4 bobcats and killed 8 coyotes and 1 bobcat, missed two coyotes, my fault not the guns. I hunt from open country to heavy grass and I can put the 87 grain bullet that I use through lite brush and tall grass. The good thing is have not had one coyote or bobcat complain about the noise or recoil. Good luck with your choice.

-------------------
Shoot straingt and shoot low sheriff they are riding shetlands.

It's my coyote gun with 75g v-maxes and 85 g Ballistic tips. Puts them down right now but be sure to have a needly and thread in the fur shed, you'll need them.

For what is worth guys-I shoot a 6/06 quite a bit-to me it is more of a predator rifle than a varmint rifle. Same goes with the 25 IMO.

I've used both cal's a fair bit on PD's but they are a bit tough on the pocket book, for both the recoil and the number of rounds. Compared to say a 223 I am saying.

That big 25 will do some wonderful things at long range that is a bit tougher to do with smaller rounds.

I use mine primarily for chucks and yotes.

Good luck and enjor yourself.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I guess I suffer from the fact that I live out East and we don't get those barrel burning days often! Give me my 17HMR Marlin VS using either Hornady or Remington ammo(CCI SUCKS!!!!!!) out to 200 yrds!!! After that(and up to 800 yards or so,after that it is just pure luck!!!!!) I'll send the little varmint an airmail invitation home with the 25-06 and an 85 grain BT and I won't give a FRA about the recoil!!! I don't have to shoot everyone I see! Just use some common sense and don't burn the barrel up!!! Maybe would have to let the 222Mag slide in from 2-400 yards!! Just to piss the 223 guys off!!! hahahahahahaha GHD

Damned 222Mag!!!! It's a 223 wannbe!!!

Mike, I think you've got that backwards! THe 223 is a 222Mag wannabe! hahahahahaha Ain't it funny how us shooters get something in our minds and if we like it, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread!!! GHD

For wide open country the 25-06 with 85gr B.T. on coyotes cant be beat. When they stop at 500yards to give you one more look they are still in range.

GHD,
I'm on your side on this one. Comparing the .223 to the .222Mag is like comparing a .308 to a 30/06.
With the .222Rem and .222Mag already in existence why did the .223 have to be in the first place?
Maybe someone could explain that to me?
Stepchild

That's easy. The Government wanted to give someone a big contract to develop a military round. Sure, we know the .222 or .222 Mag would work just as well, but the military likes to do things their way. Remember the $75 toilet seat etc.? Anyway they made a minute change in the .222 Mag and called it the 5.56x45. Remington chambered some rifles for it and called it the .223 Remington. The original Remington rifles had 14" twists, but accuracy with the GI ammo, 55gr boattail, was not all that good, so they 'dumped' them and brought out the 12" twist. I remember buying two heavy barrel models brand new for $79.95 each. Wish I had bought a dozen and kept them. They worked fine with 50gr or 55gr flat base Sierra Blitz bullets.

The .223/222Mag situation reminds me of the 6mm Remington and the 244 Remington...exactly the same cartridge, even the same manufacturer!!! Just different rates of twist in the rifles.

The 6mm should also be an excellent choice between the 25-06 and the 22's. I had a .243 in a 788 Remington many years ago. Sold it and I am still kicking myself in the ass about it. .243 was very accurate and easy to reload.

Scrounger,
I hear ya, $35.00 claw hammers, etc.
Mike,
The .223 and .222Mag are not the same case
Stepchild

For high volume varminting, go with the 223. For long range deliberate varmint/predator shooting the 25-06 has few peers. Anything substantially more will be considerably more expensive to shoot, with noticeably less barrel life. Here is where the 100 gr SBT rules, which can also double for deer.

Hiya Stepchild,

Yes, and the 222 Mag/223 are slightly different cartridges, sorry for the confusing nature of my post. What I was trying to point out is the silly salesmenship that has occured between 2 companies, and sometimes within the same company.

A little off topic - About the $75 toilet seats $45 screws, just realize that the military has secret projects going on all the time R&D type stuff, like our stealth technology. Just where do you think the money came from? You can't write down what you are doing (security issues) in a report that is available to the public (budget reports) FOIA ect. Just a little something I was thinking of.

Andrew

I think Varmint Guy nailed this one. 25-06 has too much blast and recoil for a varmint round when there is lots of action. Even if my hunting partner was doing the shooting,the recoil would be his problem,but we shoot lots of jackrabbits at night from inside a pickup and I wouldn't want to be around that much blast. Exception is using cast bullets. For jackrabbit shooting I even use cast bullets in .22 centerfires--58 grainer 2000-2200fps makes for pleasant shooting and does the job. Can hit them to distances you can get a good spotlight on them.

I don't know if I'd call the difference between the .222Rem.Mag. and the .223 silly salesmanship or not. My .222Mag. is built on a Sako single shot action, with a Hart 24" SS varmint barrel and a McMillan fibergrain stock. It's one of the sweetest varmint rifles you could hope for. I have a few hundred cases set aside so there's no way it'll be obsolete for me. The only thing that'll top it for accuracy in my gun case is, you guessed it, a .222Rem. in 40XBBR. The .223 just wouldn't improve my situation at all so I don't even think about it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I've done a lot of varminting.....and there's several types....prairie dogging is only one.....and the .25-06 fits in always....it's just a matter of how often.

I will not shoot 500 rounds from a .25-06 in a day...it's just too much.....I've fired that many in a .223 however!!

For those that shoot a dozen rounds at distances of 500 yards a day, the .25-06 is a very fine round.

I have both a 22-250 and a 25-06. The 22-250 is much easier to shoot but doesn't even begin to compare in whoopie factor on small game. For me and our varmint situations around here you only get 5-15 good shots a day so the extra cost or kick is no big deal but the extra mist and air time is priceless.

My current 25-06 is a stainless Ruger Mk-II in a Hogue stock with a Leupold VX-II 6-18 and a self done 20 ounce trigger job. Rechambered to 25-06 improved. It shoots 75 grain V-maxes into nice 3/8 inch 5 shot groups at 3950 feet per second. With 100 grain partitions at 3500 it serves well on big game too.

Horsepower is a wonderful thing!

25-06--.257 Wby.--6mm--220 Swift--22.250--.223--.17 Rem--.22 Mag. They all have a place and every time I go after varmints I have a tough time choosing which caliber I want to take. I called in and killed 5 coyotes in 2 hours using my .22 Mag. in a Ruger 77. I could have used any of these guns but the fun factor was greater with the gun I chose. To each his own.

Well said NIKNMAN. I have a hard time leaving my M77 MKII 22mag home. It is really fun to have around. I have a Leupold Vari X II 4-12AO on it and it is an absolute pleasure to just do everything with in the way of small game.

mellison
I've been using a 25-06 for 20 some odd years, mostly for groundhogs. I found the Speer 100 grain hollow point spitzer ahead of 54 or 56 grains of H-4931 will blow daylight all the through a groundhog at any range you can hit them.
Damn nifty bullet the front of it looks like the air intake on the old F-100 Supersaber.
Jim

The 25-06 is a good varminter. The one I owned was accurate but they seem to heat up fast.If you you shoot alot at one time. I loved my 25-06 but had to allow it time to cool while there were still groundhogs in range.