Got to shoot the Hornady 20 grain XTP loading in the 17HMR today. The Marlin VS did ok with them as in shooting 1.0-1.2 inches for 5 groups. Not as good as the 17VMaxs in that rifle but livable. Velocity was an average of 2477fps! The lowest was 2452 and the highest was 2497. Now the pleasing thing about this loading is that my Savage Striker likes it as well as the Remington or Hornady 17 grain loading! It put 8 of them into just about 1" at 100 yards and it got 2180fps out of them! Just for comparison, the velocity of the Marlin VS compared to what it averages with the 17's was -223fps. The Striker velocity was -222fps from what it clocks with the 17 loading! How's that for consistency? Now to pop a varmint or two and evaluate "real" performance! GHD

GHD,

I am a big 17HMR fan.I have been reading a bunch of speculative comments on Rimfirecentral.com about the 20g XTP loading.You should be VERY happy with your velocities!!

As to the performance on game ,on RFC these are being touted as better killers of big stuff(20lb Groundhogs to 40lb coyotes) than the 17g Vmax load.Other than 'yotes, all we have here is jack rabbits as far as BIG vermin.I don't shoot 'yotes with rimfires(unless I absolutely have to) so the XTPs won't get tested much by me.

PLEASE stick a few of those 20g XTP loads in the chests of a few grizzled old Groundhogs and tell us how they do.Also,kill a few at long range(150yards pus) and tell us if they fail to expand well.

My bet is "controlled expansion" will equate to LESS killing power on animals 15lbs on down(which is what the 17HMR was designed for).My personal feeling is the call from some consumers last year about "needing" such bullets instead of the 17g Vmax stuff is about like shooters asking for heavy .22 centerfire loadings to make them better "deer rounds".

Every cartridge has it's limitations,and I think asking for more than what Hornady gave us right off the bat with the 17g Vmaxes in the 17HMR case is a bit unreasonable.But hey,that's just me,I probably think too much..

Anyway,thanks for the stats.Look forward to hearing more..

Groundhog devastation: Great report - I am glad they are shooting well for you.
Of course I have not seen any around here (SW Montana is the last place on earth that any new product seems to arrive at!).
Keep after it and keep us advised.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I've been looking forward to trying the 20's as well. I too am guessing they will be better penetrating and better on rock chuck size and up. The down side of that would be that they'd be less effective than the 17 V-Max on gophers and p-dogs, at least that's my experience with the 17 grain TNT's.
As gophers and p-dogs are my primary target with my HMR I'm not sure these new 20's are a big deal to me, we'll see after testing. Right wrong or indifferent the more choices the better.

Gents,

I sure did not want to give the impression that I think the new 20g 17HMR loads are a BAD thing.At the very least I am glad more REAL variety in loads is being created with some new bullets.It's pretty hard to tune a rifle for accuracy when one is so limited as to load variations.

I guess I am in the camp that the 17HMR really only has two advantages in terms of killing power,velocity and bullet expansion.It's already a bit challenged for mass,frontal area and impact energy thus I think the Vmax loads along with pinpoint placement is the best way to maximize it's performance on game.

One good sign is the MUCH better velocities I have seen form the new 20g XTP load.The results on game should be interesting..

VG, Doug and sharpsman, I've probably shot about as many eastern groundhogs and crows as anyone around here using the 17HMR and the Hornady 17VMax loading. I've seen it perform better than any other rimfire known to date on varmints in the 75-175 yard ranges. I have also seen it fail inside those limits too! Those failures were (and I take the blame for it because I knew better)!!!!shooter error! Not taking enough time to place the shot that the rifle or pistol(......come to think of it the Striker hasn't missed!!!! but it only comes out on the 125 or less stuff!)is capable of! After my first few days afield in 2002 using the 17, I had voiced my opinion that a different projectile could be designed for this chambering, with a little more weight, using something on the order of the original Speer HP(not TNT's) Sierra BlitzKings or even Remingtons old PLHP that would give a little more penetration and then delivering it's energy at that point. My original thoughts were for a projectile in the 22-24grain weights as long as the accurracy of the 17 grainers could be maintained. The accurracy of the 20XTP's is better than the CCI TNT loading in the 2 firearms tested(I tested 25 different firearms using the original loadings!!!)but not quite up to the Hornady 17VMax original, but good enough for me to test it on live varmints.....that's more than I can say for the TNT variants!!! One other thing! Sharpsman, Next time you shoot a "20lb" groundhog......take pics! Also you may want to visit your taxidermist!!! That's about like a 240B&C whitetail!!!(oversized varmints!!!!) GHD

I understand your postition on the 17HMR slugs.I certainly aggree that for any sane purpose one could put the 17HMR to,if place correctly, it WILL do the trick.One thing I have noticed here in the West is on JackRabbits at 75 yds or closer,the Vmax bullets expands pretty violently when placed on the shoulder.As the range increases,and the RPMs and impact vleocites lessen ,the bullets pentrate much better and expand more consistently.I have seen several Jacks dropped instantly at 200yards with Vmaxes because rather than coming to peices on contact ,they penetrate to the vitals.It will be very interesting to get more feedback on the XTP loads.

As to the ground hogs,my hunting was limited to about 4 years in Maryland on our family farm,then another 3 years in extreme N.E. Oklahoma where I probably am solely responsible for moving the GH's western most range EAST about 20 miles!
My most recent, a trip out to W. Va. hunting GHogs in the mountains with a friend.I've probablely examined 30 to 40 dead GHogs in my life.I myself have never seen a 20LB ground hog.I have killed several that went about 15lbs or pretty close.

The "20LB Groundhog" thing came from what I keep seeing on RFC from Eastern 17HMR users about "we NEED these controlled expansion 17HMR slugs to take on the BIG stuff like 20LB groundhogs"

That's why I made the comment to you, as I figured you sort through enough Groundhogs a year that if anyone would shoot a 20pounder-you would.I guess if you can "only" come up with a few 15pounders, they will just have to do.

I will have to get my 17 HMR tuned up with the XTP loads and take a few called in 'yotes with it this fall,just to add a bit more feedback to the mix.

sharpsman, "touche" or whatever that term is!! A little fun intended! The "20 lb" groundhogs are few and far between!! I shot one that was a "biggun" 2 years ago in my alfalfa field and Sarah(Miss GHD) 13 years old at the time said, Let's go get him"......(*you can't count them unless you pick them up!!!!!!!)so we did!! I took the beast to the store and weighed him!!! Wrapped in a plastic bag so not to soil the scales......17lbs, 2 ozs.......that was a "biggun"!!! I have seen one over 20 in my time that I can recall......1977 in Montgomery Co(home of VA TECH) shot with a 17Remington from about 170 yards....21lbs4oz. The guy had him mounted but didn't like the mount so he set him up at 500 yards with an explosive charge hooked to him and then we toook turns trying to blow him up.......the original killer killed him twice!!! Second kill was with my beloved 25-06 using a 90 grain PEP Winchester bullet!!! Now about the 40 lb coyotes.....that's not so hard to get to!! GHD

Had a cousin that went to Veternary school at Va Tech(Blacksburg) I've been there a time or two "myownself".

I've never seen a mounted Groundhog.Perhaps if there was a Boone and Crockett listing for them I would have seen more.

Hmmmm... I guess if B&C DID have a listing,then the 20XTP would be THE Ground hog slug-in order to prevent exessive damage to the Ghog's "cape" for trophy mounting???

I can see it now-"Say Bob,have you seen my new SCI "Gold Medal" Groundhog?

I must stop this train of thought, lest I offend someone....

Well, I may try the 20 gr. loads for the .17 HMR, but I'm not going to fall over myself trying to get them!!! They decided to make them too late!! I have found Remington Premier .22 Mag Ammo shoots sub MOA groups at 100 yds with my rifle, and I know th .22 Mag will anchor groundhogs and fox. I haven't had a chance to try the .22 Mag on a yote, but if the opportunity presents itself, I'll give it a try.

The .17 HMR just doesn't impress me any more.

sharpsman, Sarah's(Miss GHD's) first groundhog got mounted! A friend who is a taxidermist did it without her knowing about it! When he gave it to her she was surprised!! I think it is more special to her than her first whitetail buck!!(17"spread 8 pointer shot from 271 yards with her .260!!!!) To tell the truth, I don't know which one got "daddy" more excited! Just glad to have a kid like to hunt!!!! She has now "graduated" to the .204 on the groundhogs!!!
Blacksburg is not the place to go to watch football this year! I'll bet they don't finish .500!!! Little Vick turned out to be a real "dick"(little pun intended" and the loss of KJ, and some others will leave them to be the whipping boys of the ACC......well they might beat Duke and Wake Forest, but that remains to be seen!!!
Mike Elmer: As a friend once said, "The 17 will render the 22 MAG obsolete!" Bet that will stir the natives!!! GHD PS: If I was going to try to minimize pelt damage using varmint calibers, and going great distances, I'd use a 22-250 loaded with 40 grains of Winchester 760 and a 52 grain SPEER GOLD MATCH!!! But they haven't been available since 1977 and I've run out of em!!!

Mike, All in good fun on this end! I didn't nessicarily agree with the "friends" judgement of the situation!!! And the new loadings in the PREMIER line did 2220fps out of my 22MAGS and had accurracy to boot! Under an inch at 100 but you better have your click chart handy after that! Same as with the other mentioned stuff!!! But more important with the 22MAG!!! GHD