Twenty caliber fans: I just received an E-mail from the Sierra Bullet Company answering my question about them producing 20 caliber bullets or not.
The text of the E-mail was as follows:

"Yes the rumors are true. We're releasing a 32 gr. Blitzking and also a 39 gr. BK BT. They should be out there by late this month."
Paul

I have been very happy with the accuracy of both the Hornady factory offerings and with the Berger bullet using handloads I have made for both my 204's. But the Sierra bullets will certainly be a welcome addition to the 20 caliber offerings. I use a lot of Sierra bullets in a lot of calibers and Rifles and their wonderful reputation for accuracy and lethality needs no further endorsements from me.
Good for Sierra!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, SHOT SOME TODAY!!! Have 2 boxes of the 32's and one box of the 39's!! 25.0 grains of A2230 and the 39's gave me 3645fps and around .8" and that was not a time cnsuming thought before heading out!! Had to get the daughter to the range for her handgun lesson and just GUESSED at what might work!!! GHD

Groundhog Devastation: Seems my corner of Montana is the last place on earth to get the latest "stuff"!
I may just call my friend out in Washington and have him ship me some of Sierras new 20 caliber bullets as soon as he gets them into his shop!
I was out on the west coast in mid December just past and my source for 20 caliber Berger bullets was set up at a Gunshow I attended. And he (Russ Haydons Shooters Supply) sold out of Berger 20 caliber bullets immediately! I missed out on them then!
I do not have a close source for Berger bullets down here in SW Montana so I better get a plan before spring!
Thanks for the update and the load info. Its saved.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy, I assume you want those new Sierra 20 caliber bullets to try in a 204 Ruger.

Be sure to pick up the latest issue of Shooting Times magazine. Decent article in there by Rick Jamison with 30 different loads for the cartridge.

Note also that he got hold of some of the 32 grain Sierra bullets and had mixed results with them. When he shot them under 4000 fps they were pretty good stuff. When he raised the performance level to 4100 fps or more they started to come apart on the way to the target.
Interesting, I thought.

R F

RFlowers: Yikes on that situation with the coming apart Sierras 32's! Thanks for the heads up on that and the magazine article. I am headed to town and will look for that issue today!
Yes I went "hog wild" last fall and bought two new Varminters in 204 Ruger. One is the Remington M-700 VLS and the other is the Ruger M-77 V/T.
This might be an interesting time to relay their comparative accuracies and attributes!
First off I have not bought a new Ruger 77 Varminter in centerfire for some time now (many years!). I have owned them in calibers like 220 Swift, 223 Remington, 280 Remington and a couple others. Mostly I have had pretty good luck accuracy wise over the years with them. I like their looks and they used to be relatively cheap (good buy). This latest M-77 V/T is a very accurate and very pleasant Rifle to shoot and look at! I think it was money well spent!
I mounted a Sightron 6x24 variable scope on it.
It shot the Hornady factory ammo into the 5's and 6's very consistently right from the box. No bedding or anything. Then I made up some handloads with Berger 35 gr bullets and the resulting groups were in the high 3's and in the 4's! I settled on this load to finish the Prairie Dog season with.
The Remington 700 VLS came out of the box shooting very well indeed also! It shot the hard to come by (at the time) 40 gr. Hornady factory ammo wonderfully. I shot a couple of groups after barrel breakin with this ammo in the high 3's. Then my Berger 35 gr handloads with it shot .398" for 5 at 100 yards and .480" for another group. This Remington was scoped with one of the wonderful Leupold 8.5x25x40mm scopes. Other than an absolutely mandatory trigger job on the Remington it also was factory stock.
I have not had a chance to get the 204's out over my chronograph as yet with either the handloads or factory ammo that I still have a few boxes of.
So the Ruger and the Remington both came from the factory doing very well in my opinion and very similar in perfomance accuracy wise.
More later - thanks again for the tips.
Long live the 204!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I believe the .204 caliber Sierra bullets that Rick Jamison had coming apart were NOT the standard factory run, they were "Beta" type bullets and NOT the ones that you will find being sold to the public. Why Sierra would let a writer test bullets that are inferior to the ones that are to be sold is beyond me, but that is the information I gathered off the Saubier.com bulletin board.

R. Flowers & Silverfox: I just returned from town with the "February" issue of "Shooting Times".
Thankfully I was patient there at the magazine rack of the Safeway store! The "January" issue of Shooting Times was prominently displayed and I assumed that was "the latest issue". I went through that issue from front to back at least 11 times and could not find the article by Rick Jamison on the 204 Ruger to save myself!
The third time the store manager walked by me and I was still "perusing" the same magazine I began to feel guilty.
Just as I was about to give up I spied a stack of Shooting Times magazines that had been covered by - a Glamour Magazine! Why don't those dumb blonde bimbos put the magazines back where they got them?
Anyway the February issue of Shooting Times ($3.95 U.S.) has a long and very thorough looking article on the 204 Ruger and I also want to recommend it for any 204 newbies out there.
Thanks again R. Flowers for the tip!
Silverfox: I am with you on that one! I can't imagine the folks at Sierra letting out a different (or prototype?) bullet that won't be available to the public! Hmmm...?
Thanks also for your headsup over at Saubier's site. I am going over to the bulletin board you mentioned to check it out ASAP.
Hold into the wind (the wind by the way is just HOWLING here in SW Montana today - yesterday was so calm and beautiful!)
VarmintGuy

VG and SF, I can't imagine the Sierras "blowing up" either!! The 32's I shot yesterday didn't register on the chrony(light was fading) but the same load with the Hornadys is in the 4250-4350 range when tested multiple times! The groups shot with the 32's were what a lot of folks would be tickled with but I will tweak them a bit more and then report!! I will change the seating depths and maybe vary the charge of 2230 .3-.5, but when I shoot 5 and have a ragged althoth, fairly elongated, .6-.7" hole, the load holds promise!! ANd the results of BlitzKings on varmints in the past has been exemplary so they will get a fair test!!! It just may be that I will have some 32 VMaxs to trade or sell!!! These didn't "come apart" during their trip!!! And VG, SW. VA isn't any more susceptible than your area as far as new product availability!!!! ....These bullets came from KANSAS!!!!!! GHD

Thanks for the heads up on the sierra 20s, I was planning to go over to sedalia in the next couple of weeks to pick-up some bullets (the seconds are cheap and not too bad to shoot at dogs). I will have to get some 20s and try them out before spring

What is the weight range of bullets for the .204Ruger? So far I've heard of 32 and 40grs. I have a .17Remington and several .22 centerfires. It might be nice to have a rifle that comes between the two. The .204 appears to be a good choice. Thanks and best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

VarmintGuy, hope the magazine is of some interest to you.

Man, it sounds to me like the Ruger and the Remington are both shooting QUITE well! Those sound like good rifles to me.

I have been thinking of getting a .204 Ruger in the Remington 700VLS. I own several 700VS models and one 700VLS rifle and they all shoot quite well. I am sure I would have to have a Jewell trigger for it, but otherwise it should be fine "stock".

I am glad you are having good luck with the Ruger. The last Ruger I bought was one of the gray finish/laminated stock target models. It was chambered in 22-250 and was a real dissapointment. Right out of the box it shot groups over 3 inches. With lots of work I got it down to about 1.5 inches. I sold it to a guy who thought the stock was pretty. I promptly bought a 700VS that shot under an inch the first time I took it to the range.

Sounds like you are having lots of fun with this latest of varmint cartridges.

R F

Cal Sibley-- So far the .204 caliber bullet weights I have seen available are:

27.5 gr.
30 gr.

Whoops!!! I forgot the 32 gr. bullets!!!!

33 gr.
35 gr.
36 gr.
38 gr.
39 gr.
40 gr.
45 gr.
46 gr.
50 gr.

There are a few bullet makers out there who will make ANY bullet weight you are interested in. The bullets I listed above are manufactured by one or more of the following companies:

Berger
Black Diamond
Hornady
Lucas (these dies were sold to Bill West)
Sierra
Unmussig

R. Flowers: Yeah maybe I have gotten lucky. I know a lot of people who use the Ruger Varminters and they "usually" have pretty good luck accuracy wise with them. My old friend Jack for instance bought one of those Ruger M77 Mk II Varminters in caliber 223 Remington. Nifty gun and it shot pretty consistent 1/2" groups at 100 yards. He had it a year and decided to have it rechambered to 221 Fireball! I tried to talk him out of it as I knew that a 1/2" Ruger Rifle is something to hold on to!
Anyway he went along with his planned chambering change and the "new" 221 Fireball came out shooting like a house on fire! Jack relays to me that it shoots very consistently in the 3/8" category with a big variable Leupold on it. I have seen him shooting Prairie Dogs and Ground Squirrels with this Rifle on several occassions and it is a dandy!
Like I said I have owned a lot of Ruger M-77 Varminters in the past and have had pretty reasonable luck with them.
The only heavy barrel Rugers I own now are this latest M-77 V/T in 204, a M-77 in 220 Swift and a M-77/17V in 17 HMR. The 204 and the 17 HMR I could not ask for better accuracy! The 220 Swift has always shot in the .700" range (5 shots at 100 yards) since I bought it in 1976 (its the Bi-centennial model).
I agree with your Remington example! I am on a run of great accuracy "luck" in my Remingtons, that has been going on for 15+ years now! I simply can't buy one that is not pleasingly accurate to me!
Wishing you continued good luck there with your Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, SF and the rest of you folks interested, I shot a few more test groups with the Sierra 39's and their 32's yesterday. Using 25.5 grains of Accurate 2230, Federal 205 Match primers and the 39 Blitzkings yielded 3614fps and .646". Bumping the charge to 25.8 grains od A2230 yielded an average of 3714fps and an averege of .664"@ 100 yards......a note of interest here......3 shots in each of 3 groups fired using this load went under .2" with the smallest being .196"(overall for that one was .547"! No pressure signs, and all the bullets made the trip!!! Rick Jamison should have been here!!! He'd have really wanted to be here to see the 32 grainers go .675" at 4100 fps and then witnesse the 32 VMAXS go 4553 and still go under .700 using a STIFF load of 2230!!! Good shooting to all of you!!! The A2230 seems to be the ticket for hyper-velocity and decent accurracy with the .204....at least in my testing! H4895 will probably prove to be the consistent, gun to gun, shooter to shooter, bullet to bullet pick for the .204!!! Some of ya'll need to test this 2230 and report back on your findings!!! There is no data available for it in published books so it was a SWAG on my part......at least I didn't cut the head off a primed case with a power tool!!!!

GHD-- Thanks, once again, for taking the time to post your very interesting test data. I appreciate it very much. I won't be doing any testing of loads until it warms up and that will probably be in the middle of April or so.

In the meantime, I have been doing some e-mailing back and forth with Ben Amonette, Consumer Service Manager from Alliant Powder Company for the past week or so. I told him that I felt that the popularity of the .204 Ruger might warrant that his company get involved in doing some testing of the .204 Ruger with some of the available bullets and the Alliant powders. He said, and I quote:

quote:

---

At this point, we do not have plans to purchase the equipment necessary to test the 204. However, there are lots of inquiries about it, and we may change our minds.

---

So, EVERYBODY here is the URL for Alliant Powder Company: Alliant Powder Company Just go onto their Web site and click on the Contact Us link and let them know that you are interested in them publishing some reloading data for the .204 Ruger.

Groundhog Devastation: Now you be careful down they-yah, you hear!
I don't want you bulgin no barrels or sumthin!
Out of allegiance to Sierra (and no Berger outlet in my area!) I am going to try their 20 caliber bullets in both of my 204's!
I think I will go with their 32 grainers. I will be able to order these or maybe they will have the Sierra's in this weight from several places I can drive to and from - in a day!
Now I have to say that 4,553 FPS must be some kind of "violation" or "infraction" of some handloading speed limit - isn't it?
I am off in search of AA 2230 powder ASAP! But I think I will top off my tank (so to speak) at around 4,200 FPS in my 204's - or until real "live" load data is verified.
Well, if you make it to Prairie Dog land this spring/summer those bullets travelling that fast are: #1 - gonna make a real LOUD whopping sound when you hit a Prairie Dog (or even a Groundhog!) and #2 - they are gonna fly real flat!
I don't know if you will have to hold off of hair on a standing Groundhog even out at 400 yards with that combo!
I am also off in search of a trajectory table for bullets going 4,553 FPS (if there is such a thing?)! This should be real interesting!
Again you be careful down there and thanks for the info and results!
I gots to know! Who tried to cut the head off of a primed case with a power tool?
More later!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, The Accurate 2230 at 27.7-28.0 grains will get you in there at the 4200 and definitely won't be breaking pressure records!!! I am not going to load the .204 for that "4500" level either!!! I did plug in the 4553fps into the balistics program just to see what it looked like! ......5" flatter at400 and 10 inches flatter at 500 than a 55 VMAX(.224) at 3700. It also would be 1.9" less drift in a 10mph wind at 500 yards!!!! Just to let you know tthat the calculator will run those numbers!! GHD

quote:

---

......at least I didn't cut the head off a primed case with a power tool!!!!

---

When you summarize it that way, it sure sounds pretty stupid...

But since you are willing to jump in a load up powder that has not be lab tested for a particular application, I now know who can save my place in the "dumb line" if I have go pee or something...

trouble, How's your wound? I SINCERELY hope it has healed properly!!!
No there is no published data for the .204 and Accurate 2230. But I have been reloading for the 17 Rem, 222,223,222Mag for awhile(26 years or so)......all similar cases. The loads tested were arrived at by closely studying the data AVAILABLE for these and doing a bit of math to deduce a logical starting load for the powder and bullet. So far, the results have not resulted in any catastropic mishaps!!! The results have been such that I feel very confident in recommending some of the loads for others to test!!
Now somebody in an earlier post made mention of the fact that "I had never made a mistake!!!" WRONG!!! I will relay one experience for your pleasure!!! Back in 1976, while reloading a .243 using 90 grain FMJ bullets and reading the loading data out of a SIERRA manual, the phone rang. While talking on the phone away from the reloading bench, a breeze manage to turn the pages of the manual so that I was looking at 90 grain FMJ.....whatever powder..... So I proceeded to load up 10 for testing. The first 2 "cut holes" in a brand new target! I thought, "this rifle likes this load!!" 3rd shot resulted in a bit of gas and such being emitted from the action in a "not normal" way!! Also, upon looking at the target there were now "5"(five) holes visible!!! Also the bolt wouldn't release!! Upon removing the bolt by the use of a wood block against the bolt, a completely separated case head was stuck to the bolt face, rest of case still in chamber!!! Upon removal of the case head, "R-P 243Win" was clearly stamped and visible on the bolt face!! Upon using a bullet puller to dismantle the other loaded rounds, and weighing the charges, my mistake became evident!!!!!.......those loads were for a .240 Weatherby ....not a .243WIN!!! The reloading manual was still there and open to the page that it had been turned to by the breeze!!!!! So we are all human and make mistakes!!! Let's try not to make anymore!! Have fun reloading and if you ever have a question and think just maybe there is a chance ol' GHD might could help, shoot me a line and I'll do the best I can to help!!! GHD

Trouble,

How do you think load development starts? I am a novice reloader, but I understand what is being done here. With a little common sense, some decent math skills, and a lot of careful research, and years of experience one can develop his own loads using a similar cartridge such as the .204. I am not saying I do this nor will I try it unless I have taken these steps.
However, we are all one big happy "family" here at AR, so we could do without the name calling! "Can't we all just get along?" Hehehehe

MormontHunter,
I think you completely missed the intent of my posting. The "dumb line" is a place where some of us occasionally go to stand for a while when actions, that seemed reasonable at the time, produce results that indicate otherwise.

I don't think my posting should have been reduced to "name calling". I was just watching my backside.

GHD, I will be hollering when I need expert help from a seasoned reloader. Lord knows I need it on occasion.

Mike

Groundhog Devastation: Thanks for the 4,200 FPS load! I have printed it out and once I maybe get through a big town and find the right components, I will start work on that powder.
My two local outlets are out or do not carry the AA 2230.
Oh well, I have lots of time - but NO patience! Tough mix those two!
I am still waiting out the now 4 day long Chinook Wind here in SW Montana! They are down to 15 to 20 MPH now so maybe it will be calm enough to shoot in a few days! I have a load for a 220 Swift that needs to be verified and shot in now fireformed brass!
Undoubtedly every ounce of air on earth has whistled past my house at least TWICE in the last four days!
These warm Chinook Winds have also made a planned Coyote Hunt be cancelled twice now! My partner Ben wants to get started on a Coyote Bed Spread - if you can imagine!
I promised to help him! And in a couple of years he will have enough pelts to make one. I wish he had let me know a bit earlier that he wanted some pelts as I left several out in the field during my eastern Montana Antelope Hunts and an eastern Montana Mule Deer Hunt. Oh well.
By the way I shot 3 or 4 Coyotes with one of my 204's (using Hornady factory ammo) this fall and the pelts did not appear to be harmed much at all! Definitely not ruined like some of my Varminters can do!

Trouble: If it will not be difficult or embarrassing for you - I am not in on the particulars of your "incident" - I hope you were not harmed first of all, and if you care to relay any particulars I will listen and learn and not be judgemental or condescending towards you.

Groundhop Devastation: I just read your 240 Weatherby to 243 Winchester "incident" and appreciate your relaying it and the inherent reminder that goes with it!
Yikes! Thankfully you or your firearm were not permanently injured!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well crap!
You folks just aren't gonna let me distance myself from this event are you??

Here you go, for your viewing pleasure...
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=518103&f=2511043&m=105102471&r=481106471#481106471

You kids need to promise me not to try this at home...

Trouble: Thank you for directing me to the explanitive thread!
I thank the Gods I worship that your eye was not struck!
I would have also assumed (incorrectly it seems!) that water would have "muddled" that priming solution there in that primer!
Again I am most thankful that you were not more seriously injured!
I appreciate the lesson you have owned up to and it was not my intent to stir anything up regarding your lesson that you have shared with us!
Just this afternoon I was loading 17 Remington cartridges and a primer got "seated" upside down in one of the cases! My Lee priming tool somehow came loose in the lid area (I think I remember having to retighten it during my priming phase) and that allowed a single primer to jump upside down in the tray (again - I think!) and I ended up seating that primer upside down - then noticing my mistake! So I have a nickel plated piece of 17 Remington brass with an upside down primer in it and I am afraid to "de-prime" it in the normal way. Luckily this bag of brass came with 101 pieces in it and I may just throw it away.
Thanks again!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

HeHeHe...No harm done on this end. I learned early on that I couldn't go around with an inflated ego... I'd get caught every time.
I too am thankful that the damage was just to my finger and not any other significant parts.

An upside down primer??? Hmmm I think thay one would be best thrown out. I have started to think from an economic standpoint on these problems. A $0.15 piece of brass and a $0.05 primer versus a $0.25 bandaid and possibly a $1000 emergency room visit....

If it still causes a problem for you, I'll send you $0.20 to cover your losses...

Mike(trouble), You have a private message here! Hope you can get to it! The new system seems a bit more complicated than the old board! GHD

GHD,
I just looked and found it. Reply was sent your way. This new PM system is not real friendly...Thanks for letting me know it was there.

Just an FYI for you guys. I contacte Accurate about 204 load data and they are mailing me data for Accurate and Ramshot powders.
Ya'll might want to ask for the info also

Snorkel Bob Please post that information on this board when you receive it. Thanks!

Not a problem, I might even be able to get ahold of a copy this weekend at the shotshow somwhere. I'll let ya'll know