Gentlemen,

For the last few years my Dad has commandeered my 220 Swift in order to exact revenge on the coyotes bothering his bison herd. Since I will be moving up to his neck of the woods shortly, he can see time may be running short on his use of my rifle and that we will have to get him one of his own.

We got to talking about it over the holidays and we think something a little more substantial may be in order. His average shot has been in excess of 400 yards, with one kill out at 700 yards.

So, he needs a rifle very capable of these long range shots. The rifle will mainly be shot from a rest, but will also be carried in the truck on patrols around his ranch. He also wants to limit any increase in noise or recoil over the level of the 220 Swift. A factory cartridge would be preferred over wildcat (I have all his reloading equipment, so it would be nice to have access to factory ammo in the case I am not available).

With this in mind, my question to you all is this...what would you build as the ultimate long range coyote whacking rig?

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Please include as much detail as you like, including such things as:

1.calibre,
2.cartridge,
3.preferred action,
4.barrel length,
5.twist rate,
6.preferred bullet,
7.pet load,
8.scope suggestions, etc.

Thank you very much, in advance, for your help.

Canuck

[ 01-05-2003, 10:59: Message edited by: Canuck ]

Limiting to factory cartridge and limiting recoil to same level as a Swift pretty much limits you to either a .22-250 or a .220 Swift. I'd say either is sucking hind tit out at 700yds on a coyote, though. Never tried it, just my impression.

I would say something like a Savage 12BVSS in .243 Win pushing an 87gr VMax (BC 0.400) as fast as it will go would do the job nicely. A Remington, Ruger, Winchester or whatever in a similar style (heavy barreled varmint gun) would most likely do just as well. Factory guns seem to come w/ about a 1-9" twist for .243/6mm Rem (1-12 for .22-250, 1-14 for Swifts), or pretty close, which should be able to stabilize a 105gr A-Max for the *real* long shots. Remington does make the 700VLS in 6mm Remington, which has a bit more capacity than the .243. Also, you might consider an Ackley version of either a .22-250, .243, or 6mm Rem w/ a fast twist as he *can* fire factory rounds in them in a pinch if you are behind on your reloading

As far as glass, I've been *real* happy w/ my Weaver V16 scope, to the point that I'm seriously thinking about selling my Sightron SII6-24x42mm and getting a V24($250-325). Very nice scopes, even nicer price tag. If you want to spend some more $$$, consider Burris($400-600). Very bright glass, reasonable prices, but somewhat limited range of adjustment (as compared to a Leupold), but not really an issue w/ a fast stepping varmint round (it is is w/ a .308 Win at long range, though!). Upper end you get into the Leupold Long Range scopes($600-800), either 6.5-20x or 8.5-25x w/ 50mm objectives and 30mm main tube, and side focus knob. The 30mm tube (more elevation) and side focus knob are *sweeeeet*. They do tend to have a good deal of change in eye relief btwn min and max magnification, though. Top shelf stuff is Nightforce, w/ 30mm tubes, laser etched *and* illuminated reticles (wide variety of choices) and some models(NXS) have side focus. Prices range widely, from $800-1000 for some of the "Benchrest" models, to $1300-1600 for some of the high magnification NXS models (up to 12-42x). If money is no object, you could always get U.S. Optics, but they make NightForce look almost affordable!

HTH,

Monte

[ 01-05-2003, 11:43: Message edited by: milanuk ]

This is a tough one. 400-700 yards shot, with low recoil.

Don't think you can get the range & powder without a price. You could get a brake and a bull barrel so it is HEAVY, and since it's a truck gun, it won't be packed far, and ear muffs could be put on before a shot.

As for factory ammo, that's another tuffy. Probably have to handload for this type of rig.

My suggestion? A Remington M700 Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm SAUM, 7mm STW, or 7mm Ultra Mag. With a big scope, it should have the velocity and bullet weight to really flatten a coyote at mega range. Forget the light, 100-120 gr. bullets, they loose their speed too quick. Go with a 162 gr. Hornady A-Max or a similar VLD bullet in to 160 gr. class from Berger and others. These will hold up better in the wind than the lighter bullets.

Other choics might be a 257 Weatherby Mag, 264 Win Mag, or the 270 WSM. Only VLD bullets are really available in the 6.5mms & 7mm though.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700sendsf.htm

Here are some numbers to ponder:

600 yards is the range. 10 mph crosswind

------------------------------------------------------

220 Swift w/ 55 gr. Nosler BT @ 3850 fps
1753 fps, 375 ft-lbs, 40" drift

243 Win w/ 105 gr. Hornady A-Max @ 2950 fps
1913 fps, 853 ft-lbs, 26" drift

257 WBY MAG w/ 115 gr. Berger VLD @ 3300 fps
2225 fps, 1264 ft-lbs, 21" drift

264 Win Mag w/ 140 gr. Berger VLD @ 3200 fps
2306 fps, 1652 ft-lbs, 18" drift

270 WSM w/ 135 gr. Sierra MatchKing @ 3250 fps
2121 fps, 1348 ft-lbs, 23.5" drift

7mm Magnum(1) w/ 162 gr. Hornady A-Max @ 3100 fps
2222 fps, 1776 ft-lbs, 19" drift

7mm Mega Mags(2)w/ 180 gr. Berger VLD @ 3050 fps
2264 fps, 2049 ft-lbs, 17" drift

------------------------------------------------------
Notes:

(1)This is the ballisics for the 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Winchester Short Magnum, and 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum.

(2)This is the ballistics for the 7mm STW and 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum.

Draw your own conclusions from this. What I see is you don't gain much over the standard 7mm Magnums. They drift within a few inches of the big howlers at 600 yards, kick less, and have easy to find bullets, like the sleek 162 gr. Hornady A-Max. Plus, they
double as a great deer rifle at long range with a tougher bullet. And they are readily available in many different rifles and actions.

Sounds like it will be a fun project, whatever he chooses.

Try a 25-06. A Remington Sendero would be a good choice. Heavy barrel and good stock, built for long shots. The 25-06 would be a great long range coyote gun. I have a Rem 700BDL for deer and varmints that work great. 25-06 is plenty accuarte and powerfull for what you want.

My choice for the same kind of work is a .264 mag. using 100 to 120 gr ballistic tips . There are also a couple of 107 gr match 6.5 mm bullets which I haven't got a chance to try out yet . I find the .264 with the lighter bullets to kick a fair amount less than a 7mm mag .

A 25/06 would be very good as well . My vote for the best bullet choice would be the most aerodynamic 100 gr you can get your hands on , as long as your particular rifle will shoot them well.....

Well, my first reaction was to recommend a 25-06, but the recoil and noise might be a problem. But, what was I thinking, I have the next best thing right here in the safe and it has killed coyotes WAY OUT THERE!

I would recommend a good rifle based on a Remington 700 action wearing a pretty stiff 26 inch barrel. My own rifle is a 700 Remington action with a 26 inch Shilen SS match grade barrel. It has a 1 in 12 twist, but in retrospect, I guess I would recommend a 1 in 10 for most uses.

It wears a McMillan stock and has a Jewell trigger. It has a 6.5 X 20 Leupold scope sitting in lapped Leupold dual dovetail rings.

My favorite load for this rifle is a 80 grain Sierra Blitz bullet loaded over 47.5 grains of IMR 4831 and a Fed 210M primer in W-W cases. This gives about 3450 fps and less than half inch groups any day that I do my part. It has dropped coyotes a hell of along ways off, but they just were not measured. It did kill prairie dogs that were measured with a laser range finder at over 750 yards!

I think that a rifle like that ought to give those coyotes a fit. We have similar problems here in CA with them eating peoples beef calves.
One fellow called my dad a couple years back and we wound up killing 38 coyotes off his place in about six weeks.

Just asking if those Berger VLD bullets will expand?

Maybe a 6MM Remington could get the 105 Hornady with that .500 Ci up to at least 3100 fps as Nosler #5 shows it doing 3260 fps with 100 gr bullets and that would bring the 600 yard drift closer to the bigger rounds at 24".

In any case the major problem is the recoil and the 6MM's seem the obvious choice. I would say to just use your .264 or 7MM Mag too but I have a .264 Winchester for varmints and that round kicks quite hard like the 7MM's.

Sounds like an application for a .243 WSSM !

Ah yes, the mystical "perfect" rifle. Its so grand to use the other man's pocket book without any restraints of reality. If you commonly will be shooting at 700 yds, you're gonna need a cannon! With a big bullet. And its gonna KICK! Why not be a little more reasonable and get a swift or a 22-250 or, at most, a 243 and leave the 700 yarders for seed. With a little practice, you can make 500 yard shots routinely.
I know it sounds strange, but you might try GETTING OUT OF THE TRUCK (ain't that a scary thought) and doing a bit of stalking.

A 2506 is what your looking for.

It sounds like you want something like our longrange deer/antelope rifles. These have been shot out to 1,100yds and were still supersonic. Contray to popular beliefe you dont need a cannon to shoot that far.

If money is a concern.
Savage 112bv(heavy varmint)-$500 dollers
in 243win, or rechamber to 243imp gain about 100 to200fps(and still be able to use factory ammo)

Buy a bell and carlson composite stock, the spiderweb ones, not the cheap plastic ones.-$100 dollers.

Depending on what kind of scope you want.
Fixed power, B@L Elite 3200 10 by 40 with the large external turrets.-$179.99
Varible, Leupold any LR model.-$600-800 dollers.

Put a harris bipod on it and load with 105gr A-MAX, at about 3,200fps(imp), or faster with a longer barrel.

If you want, put a Lilja 3groove, 1/8 twist, 28 or 30in long have the action trued, and the stock bedded.

With practice he could shoot signifagently farther than 700yds.

Take care.

Shoot the 220 Swift. There's not anything in this recoil range that will be any better. I've shot coyotes with .22lr to 7mm Mag, shotguns with 4-buck in front of hounds, nothing better than the .220. I guess you could do like me and replace the old shot-out barrel with a new one and ream it to .220 Ackley Improved. By the way, mine is a rem 700 built 30 years ago by Ed Brown.

I am a fan of 25 calibers, but in your case I would rebarrel your Swift to 220 Swift! but, with a 9 twist barrel so you can shoot the 75gr A-max- you will be pleasently surprised with the performance beyond 400 and up the 600 yard figure- beyond that wait for a better shot- a missed coyote is an educated coyote.

www.duanesguns.com

[ 01-06-2003, 08:36: Message edited by: DuaneinND ]

Canuck,

I would recomend the 25-06 as well. A Sendero or a savage would be fine.

A Winchester coyote in .243 would be not a bad choice.

I am having a coyote-wolf rifle built. I decided to go with the 25-284win. on a M700short action. I intend to use 100gr. bullets. It will be a sporter so that I can carry it around on my snowmachine. I did consider a 6mm but I think the .257's are better at long range especially if I use a heavier bullet. It was either a 25-06 or 25-284.
That .257 Weatherby in thier varminter should be death on coyotes too.

Let us know what you decide.

Daryl

Canuck, considering the noise/recoil limit you suggest, I think the only option is .243 in rifle/scope you prefer. The Winchester Coyote sounds good to me with something in line of 12X scope. I don't think he'll notice much more recoil or noise.

At 700 yds any .22 caliber is getting pretty tired. For this reason I wouldn't suggest another .22 such as .22/250.

Canuck, there IS another way to look at this problem. If your Dad is in love with your Swift, let him go with it and ask yourself what rifle YOU want? Any serious shooter is ALWAYS looking for any scam to get a different gun. You may have found it!

Was breaking in my newest long range coyote rifle on the critters today. It doesn't meet your criteria in two areas tho... kicks the crap out of you and a bit noisy. I have a 338 Rem Ultra mag Sendero, 5.5x22 Nightforce, and 3# of lead in the butt stock to tame the recoil. I push the 180 Balistic tips out at 3525 fps for a very flat wind bucking bullet out to 800-900 yards.Nice splash on the ground so as to see hits/ misses.
Will put 3-shots into 1.25-1.5" at 300 yards with out much trouble. Not real good on hides, leaves a dinner plate size exit hole in the fur at the closer ranges.

why not rebuilt your 220 swift in 220 swift with a good custom barrel and short pitch ( 1 in 9 ) to shoot 69/75 bullet , PAC NOR for example can do this job with a nice 26 inch and you keep your reload dies and stuff just need some bullet and powder .
or in 6 REM with a 1 in 8 pitch to shoot bullet from 95 to 105/107 match bullet you hve enought of performance to shoot at 1000 yards .

scope in range 6.5 to 20 variable is ok for longrange but a good 4.5x14 can do the job if you dont goover 700 yards

700 yards / 14 = 50 so you see you yote as 50 yards and get more field of view than a 20 power .

my next choice will be a SAVAGE 110 heavy barrel in 7 REM accuracy is very good out of the box , good bullet are availbale for long range , recoil is mild for a mag cartridge and rifle is cheap even as new from factory and at better price if you get a used as NIB .

good shooting

DAN TEC

A 338 Ultra would be a neat coyote rifle

Does drift more though, at least with those 180 gr. NBT's. 29" @ 600 yards in a 10 mph wind.

If recoil is really that big of a concern, a 243 would be the best choice, probably in a Rem M700 VLS. A 25-06 in a M700 Sendero would be a fairly light kicker too.

They don't keep up with the 7mm Mags though.

A Berger VLD expanding? I don't know, never tried them. Does it matter if they do or not? I'm sure any bullet that catch's a peice of a coyote will sure tame his appetite for bison, expansion or not. Just shoot 'em!

I ask about the expansion of the Berger VLD bullets as we should compare apples to apples that's all. And if the bullet passes thru without expanding you might not even know if you hit the coyote or not.

I don't like coyotes at all so I would shoot one with whatever. I have higher standards for other game but my experiance tells me that they are tough.

Day in and day out better shooting will be done with a 6MM than a 7MM or up. It's proven all the time in competition.

I have four coyote rifles, a 22-250, a 22-243 Middlestead, a 6mm Remington, and a 240 Gibbs. Neither of the 22's can compare to the 6mm's in downrange results, and for coyotes it's not like you're shooting all day. If you want to stick with factory ammo, go with a 6mm or a 243, the 6mm Rem (or the Ackley Improved version) being my preferance. - Dan

We use both a 240WBY and a 25-06 for long range yote's, and you really can't tell the difference. The 240 with low drag bullets is pretty awesome.

The new WSSM looks like an exact duplicate, ballistically, and might be worth a look, as well, when they become available this summer. FWIW, Dutch.

Well, pert's OK. I was alluding to the factory ammo requirement when I mentioned the 6mm. The 240 Gibbs walks all over it (think 6 X 63 maximully improved). Still, the old 6 Rem will do the job 99% of the time. Take care. - Dan

Canuck,

Three years ago I was using a 220 Swift for coyotes, in fact I had used one for 27 years. I switched to a 6mm Ackley Improved and now shoot 87 grain Hornady V-Max bullets @, chronographed, 3715 fps out to 600+ on rockchucks. Remington action, Hart 1 in 9" twist in SS, with Fajen laminated stock and 8.5 X 30(?) never shoot it on top power. The barrel is 28.5" not necessarily a carry gun but if you want to lay down and reach out and touch something it will DO IT! I have also used my 338 RUM with a 200 Nosler B.T. @ 3250 and killed a coyote with my Remington Syndero at 712. ( Yes there were witnesses. One of the BIGGEST benefits I have found to long range shooting is a laser rangefinder! It absolutely makes a world of difference. Good Luck and Good Hunting, Oh yes, I have not lost even one coyote since I switched to the 6mm AI with the 87 gr V-Max. It shoots flat and with a high Ballistic Coefficient it also bucks the wind extremely well. "Z"

Carcano, yes the 240 Gibbs is a 30-06 based wildcat, .250" long neck, 35 degree shoulder, minimum body taper. 85 gr bullets @ 3500-3600, 105/107 gr bullets @ 3300-3400 fps. She's a screamer, not quite as fast as the 6mm Mach IV or 6mm-300 Wby, but darn close, with a whole lot less powder. A 6 X 62 sounds pretty close to a Gibbs though. It's just on this side of the pond, -06 brass is way easier to get then pretty much any European round. Narrow minded of us, I know, but what is, is. - Dan

My suggestion would be to talk to the guys at Wholesale sports in Calgary about the tikka continental. Compairable price to a 700 VLS. BUt suposed to be quite a rifle. Last year a friend and my self went there to pick up a 700VLS in 243 and they offered to bring in a continental if thats what we would prefer. But we would have had to make another trip up from Nelson to pick it up when it came in and to do the registration.

I would think your dad might be very happy with the tikka in something like 243. If he was doing it with a 220 swift before the 243 might be the extra edge he wants.

Mark

Nothing comes close to a 264 win mag shooting
107g Loopwa's (Lapua's). At 3,700 fps these high BC bullets make an outstanding long range bullet out to a grand. Flatter than any 257 WBY. AND it has low recoil, especially in a 9 or 10 lb rifle. I have used highly accurate bullets with
great success.

Don't know if there is the perfect rifle for those pesky coyotes. If I were to choose two rifles from my gun closet it would be my 243 with 1 in 10" twist 26" heavy barrel shooting the 65 grain bullet, or my 257 Roberts with a 1 in 10" twist heavy barrel shooting the 87 or 90 grain bullet. Both rifles are very accurate and will reach out much better than the 22-250 or 220 swift not to mention very mild recoil. The .243 and .257 diameter bullets do much better in the wind drift catagory and are very good coyote medicine at any range you choose to shoot.

dear Carcano

I know the 6x62 that not really a ammazing new cartridge just a commercial cartridge of the 6.06 equal the 6/284 but as always with new german cartridge a special case base dia to not allow to form low cost case as 06 , 270 Win I far prefer a wilcat in 6 mm base on 270 WIN ( Lapua case with BR quality )and be able to get 100 case for the price of 20 case in 6x62.

efficient and performance of a caliber is not for me a problem of brand of a cartridgejust a problem of velocity and cost performance Weatherby story is plenty of amazing costly cartridge as the 224Wea or the good 240wea but too costly be popular remenebr that rule 1 in wilcat is case availabily rule 2 is case quality and for mass shooter case price is important shoot 1 chevreuil in a costly french hunt is far to be a yote hunt in AZ desert.

good shooting

DAN TEC

Cannuck,
This is my Long Range Coyote Bomber.

Action:Rem 700SA
Stock:McMillan in gray swirl, pillarbedded
Optics: Leupold Vari-XIII 4.5-14, fine duplex
Barrel:Pac-Nor SS Supermatch #4 contour, 23.5" length, 10 twist
Chamber: 243AI
Load:70gr Nosler BT at 3620fps, H4350, Fed 210s
Rifle was built by Darrell Holland, finished off in matte GunKote by myself

The rifle is a little over a year old. Has accounted for several yotes at the 400+yd ranges. Last week I took my first yote at over an estimated 500yds. I do need a laser rangefinder to complete the package. I use to have a hunting pard spot for me with his Leica rangefinder but he has moved so I need one badly. I don't use target turrets and the "click turret" method for coyote hunting. There simply is no time. When ole wiley is moving out he will stop and look back, you have on average 5-8 seconds to make your shot before he blows out again. I have the trajectory taped to the top of my scope, I simply hold over using the reticle subtension of the scope.
100yds +1"
200yds 0
300yds -5"
400yds -15"
500yds -31"
600yds -55"

Coyotes out to 400yds are cake, I have only attempted two shots over 500yds, one which was successful. As for the wind, I usually hunt dogs when there is none or little.


BTW, this is the 243AI rifle in which forum member Beemanbeeme had a hard time justifying about a year ago on this forum. All I can say is the rifle is deadly accurate, case life is excellent and 3600+fps is nothing to be sneered at! MtnHtr

[ 01-12-2003, 10:03: Message edited by: MtnHtr ]

YOU HAVE ALL FORGETEN ONE CARTRIDGE!!! 257 ROBERTS. IT'S ONLY 100-200 FPS UNDER THE 25-06 AND HAS THE RECOIL OF THE 243, IF NOT LESS.

The .257 Remington Roberts is a snake bit cartridge that was never popular. Remington screwed it up as it is not the .25 Roberts that Ned developed. Remington just necked down the 7MM Mauser and then stuck it in an action that's too short for it. The result is stubby little bullets in factory loads.

The 6MM's blew the .257 Remington Roberts out of the water in 1955. Of course a rifle could be chambered for one with a long enough magazine but why bother?

Dear DAN TEC,

quote:

---

Originally posted by dantec:
I know the 6x62 that not really a amazing new cartridge just a commercial cartridge of the 6.06 equal the 6/284 but as always with new german cartridge a special case base dia to not allow to form low cost case as 06 , 270 Win

---

Yes and no.
Indeed, the 6x62 Fr�res, the development of which had begon already in the late 1960 (its designer, Ing,. G�nter Fr�res, also fathered the 5,6x50 Magnum), was presented as a factory cartridge in 1984 by MEN (see the article by Hans Fr�mming in DWJ 3/1984, pp. 296-298).
The case is peculiar, though not as special as you assume: The base, judging from its P-1 diameter, is the well-known and everywhere easily available 9,3x62. So, case forming would be a bit tiresome I presume, but not too costly.

quote:

---

Weatherby story is plenty of amazing costly cartridge as the 224Wea or the good 240wea but too costly be popular

---

Yes, sure. The 6x62 Fr�res would naturally be compared to the .240 Weatherby and .244 Holland & Holland. It equals the performance of the Weatherby, while having a much better designed case - so here preferability is a clear call.

The nowadays almost obscure .244 H&H has a clear advance above the 6x62 Fr�res (as has the wildcat 6mm-.284), but is alleged to suffer from excessive barrel erosion, which would not wonder me the least bit.

* * *
Dear Dan Belisle:

I am a bit ashamed about my uncivil lack of historical perspective in my above commentary. I hope you'll forgive me. Actually, the ambiguous honour of having been the first nation to adopt a 6mm cartridge pertains to the USA, in the 1895 Lee Navy Rifle. In the spirit of truth, I should hasten to add that Switzerland, Italy and Germany had each tested - in this sequence respectively - 6mm cartridges several years earlier, but their military all had wisely rejected them. The USA however adopted cartridge and gun and discarded them soon afterwards :-).

And of course, around the turn of the last century there also were the German hunting cartridges 6 x 57 Mauser (allegedly a favourite of the emperor Wilhelm II.), and 6 x 58 F�rster.

Best regards,
Carcano

[ 01-14-2003, 20:59: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

I would consider a .308 in a Savage model 12bvss. It has a 26 inch Stainless Fluted barrel. With a thick laminated stock, it has a special thick palm swell. My .223, shoots excellent as well as others that I have heard about in .243, and .308. Put a Harris Bipod and and scope on it, and it will be a 14 or 15 pound rifle, but you said it is a pickup gun. A .308 in that heavy rifle shouldn't have much recoil, and it should have the downrange punch needed.

Carcano, I always learn something new when you post, you seem to know an amazing amount about european cartridges. No apologies are required, and thank you for the info. Savage 99, that's what intermediate actions are for (the 257 roberts, etc.) - Dan