My Savage 12FVSS in 22-250 currently wears a VX-III 6.5-20x50. A very nice scope and together they make a very accurate package with 55gn VMax or 50gn BT however it is not quite working for me. 90% of the shooting I do with it is spotlight culling of feral cats, foxes & rabbits out to ~ 200m. The problem I have is with the side focus/parallax adjust – I find the scope has a fairly shallow depth of field, even at 8-12x which is where I use it mostly and trying to get a cat/fox in focus quickly with the side focus is a PITA.

So, onto my question. Will I be disadvantaged with a scope without any form of parallax adjustment?

I’m thinking about the VX-III 4.5-14x50 but just the standard version not the long range version. Happy with 14x as maximum magnification – how might I be limited by not having the side focus or AO?

Thanks in advance.

Ian

Check out the Shepard scope on the internet... if nothing else for informational purposes...

The US military did a study, I once saw the results of... but it was talking about the average magnification power the human eye can take advantage of in low light conditions was about 5 to 6 power....

Those European scopes with the 56 mm objectives seem to work over there.. but speaking to a couple of German guys visiting this past spring were telling me that a fixed 8 power with a 56 mm objective was very popular in Europe for the twilight or spotlight shooting you speak of...

That also sounds like a boat load of fun also Ian!

good luck,

cheers
seafire

A smaller scope is a lot better for general hunting like you describe than the biggies. I started down the same road thinking bigger was better but it ain't always so. My rule of thumb now is anything crow-sized or smaller I use a 6.5 x 20 or 5.5 x 22 Nightforce, bigger than crows up to coyotes a 3 x 12 or 4 x 14 is plenty (3 x 9 works well enough) and 3 x 9 to 1 x 4 for everything else.

I find these days that all the really high power setting does for me is find little holes in black paper targets easier.

The depth of field is a function of magnification, distance between the optic and the object, and maximum objective diameter...just like a camera lens. You can increase your depth of field by selecting a lower power, moving farther away from the target or using a scope with a smaller objective diameter. So, going to a 4.5 x 14 50 mm scope and setting it at 8-12 x will be no different than what you have unless you set the magnification down lower than 8x.

Ian

Some of my calling rifles have AO others don't. I find you usually have no time to play with it. I just set mine at about 100 yards and leave it. I think you won't find enough differance you'll notice if you even have AO at 200 meters.

Ian,

I'm no real scope expert but here's the drill as best I can:

The prallex adjustment is required because the vast majority of US scopes have the recticle in the focal lens that affords the recticle to remain a constant size when zooming through the power range of a variable scope. The Parallex adjustment brings the focus & the recticle together.

The Europeans put the recticle in the "other" (read: opposite. Sorry, don't remember if it is the first or second focal lens). On a varible scope the parallex is (not 100%) but almost eliminated BUT the recticle gets LARGER with increased magnification and SMALLER with less magnification when zooming through the power range.

Anyway, I'm sure there's better "experts" out there to give you the absolute low down.

For the shooting you describe a European 6x42 or 8x56 would be ideal. Personally, I'd select a 8x56 for it's optimum light transmission, night use and special order a fine(r) crosshair (recticle) since they are mostly set up with a German #1 (Post) or #4 (HEAVY Duplex) for night time Piggie Bashing. The thick x-hairs are used because here it is illegal to use an artificial light at night, so the recticle really has to stand out to get the close, night time shots in forests and on fields.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:

Anyway, I'm sure there's better "experts" out there to give you the absolute low down.

Well, I don't claim to be an expert but I do know and appreciate the difference between first and second focal plain reticles.

Parallax adjustment is important because it not only focuses the target, but also mitigates the effect of inconsistent cheek weld. Therefore, changing the placement of your head on the stock doesn't effect the point of aim or impact.

This example is a first focal plain reticle scope with objective style parallax adjustment. This is the US Optics SN-3 3.8-22x58 EREK ERGO Lit MOA scale reticle scope with a 35mm tube. First focal plain reticles are interesting in that they allow "milling" at any power. The reticle appears to grow or shrink as the power is changed, but the scale sub-tension remains the same at any power setting.

Size of light transmission beam (pupil) is defined by Objective size/power = 56/8 = 7mm light path. This number 7mm is about the maximum size of your eye pupil at night. Note that 7x50mm Marine Binocs have a similar number, 50/7 = 7mm and are considered optimal for night vision.

D.

DMCI*, I believe you have some of the best toys on this forum. Nice set-up there.

Get a NIKON!! Cost you less, see more clearly!!! AO or not!!! GHD!!

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Get a NIKON!! Cost you less, see more clearly!!! AO or not!!! GHD!!

Not necessarily buzzard breath. Nikon could build a decent scope, but they are price whores like a lot of companies.

I have some of their $1500 zoom lenses on my D1X and they are excellent! Take a look at the resolution on this picture taken with the NIKON 17-35 F2.8 D ED lens on my last visit to the USO factory.

No one here has the faintest idea what you are talking about, you need an 8x khales or meopta.

Mike A: Yes I do!
I have been spotlighting Varmints at night for some 45 years now!
I have done it - I am rather proficient at it and I have a high success rate on a hits per shots ratio basis at night!
And by the way I sight in a friends Rifle every year before the Big Game season here in the states.
It is in 25/06 caliber and has a Kahles 8x scope on it!
I don't think that scope is ANYTHING special at all!
I am not impressed with its heaviness, its adjustments, its bulk or its crosshairs design!
And its finish has sluffed off over the years!
Nothing special is the best thing I can say about that scope!
Back to Ian In Oz's question - no Ian you will not be disadvantaged to any great degree (you won't be missing many Varmints at night with the non-AO type scope) - out to 200 meters, if your non-AO is set at the factory (as most are!) for 175 yards bullet dispersion due to parallax will be minimal!
I have used both non-AO and AO type scopes for night Hunting on many hundreds of occassions!
Night Hunting usually provides (for me anyway) somewhat closer average shots (100 to 300 yards) on Predators than in the same country in daylight, where the averages go up to 150 to 400 yards.
I have used not only 6.5x20x40mm scopes at night but on rare occassion used 8.5x25x40mm and 6x24x40mm scopes for spotlighting/night Hunting.
Yeah they are usually turned down to lower powers but on occassion when a Varmint holds up out at longer ranges and won't come any closer, I have been known to crank the scope up to full power and ask the spotlight operator to remove the colored lense when I am ready to squeeze one off.
Bang flop is my objective on those sneaky Varmints!
This works for me.
Yes, some folks I have talked to espouse that ONLY fixed power scopes are "usable" at night under spotlighting conditions. I have proven them wrong countless times over the decades and I discard their erroneous and ill informed opinions in the same way as I did with Mike A's babbling blather - I flush it down the nearest crapper.
Its where it belongs!
I have a Leupold 4.5x14x40mm on a 25/06 and its AO is usually set at 200 yards and I seldom move it!
That would be a fine scope for your uses, again, once set at 200 yards - forget it. Virtually none of your misses will be attributable to parallax "problems".
Best of luck with whichever scope you choose!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Ian,

I'm more on Mike's side than most of the other suggestions.

I do a lot of the same sort of spotlighting as you do, both out west (Cobar/Louth before the drought hit hard) and in the New England and Central Western areas. Rifles are 270, 243, 223 and 22mag... The 270 has a Leupy Vari-X II 3-9x40, the 243 a Leupy VX-I 3-9x40, 223 a Leupy Vari-X II 2-7x, and the 22mag a 4x Nikko (I think).

I like the Leupy's because they have a great eye relief (handy when taking those awkward shots) - besides, I can't afford the higher end scopes...

I've never felt handicapped by any of the scopes, and very frequently see other hunters fail to hit animals because they either can't acquire the target quickly enough, or have to frigg around with adjustments before they shoot.

In 40+ years of shooting, I can probably count the number of times I would like to have had a higher power scope on one hand.

My boy and I use the C/f's for military and high power shooting as well, he's #1 in his class, I'm #2... we ALWAYS outshoot other members who use higher powered, or fiddly scopes...

At 200yds, the 8x's Mike suggested will be all you'll need... AND it's simpler, and the optics are great.

Whizzbangerdoodlery is great for hunting paper, but a FPITA when hunting game...

Them's my thoughts anyway!