i've got a .223 12" bbl in the thompson center encore. I know the .223 doesn't have the blow up power on dogs as the 22-250, but will it do alotta damage? i am going to film video and i want some good impact shots. i'm sure if i can connect it will knock the lil boogers over but i want to see the dog do some flips in the air. haha thanks
i am using factory rounds: 45gr winchester crimp tip

quote:

Originally posted by bkmastr:....but i want to see the dog do some flips in the air.

OK. Look left.

How's that........?

If what you are after are consistantly acrobatic pds, you must have a very accurate gun and a pd that is in full sight. You must place the bullet in the lower portion of the pd, or at the juncture of the dirt and the pd. The more explosive the bullet, the higher the pd will go.

The one to the left was launched with a 223 and a 40 gr. Sierra HP. If you look carefully you will see there is little structural damage to the pd. Most of the energy of the bullet was transfered to the dirt below the pd in the launch.

Good luck.

Jim

Bkmastr: I have a T/C pistol in caliber 223 Remington. It has the 14 inch heavy barrel. By coincidence it uses the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tip bullets. I have "launched" a fair number of Varmints with it.
Obtaining extended "air time" in my experience and observations is a result of a combination of factors. Like pdhntr1 says an accomodating Varmint lying on a sloping rock or sloping dirt will often aid in launching said Varmint into the air.
The other factor causing air time is the amazing amount of energy that is instantly imparted into the Varmints carcass! This energy causes the Varmints body to "expand" at such a rapid rate that the expansion causes the Varmint to "lift off" the ground (or rock) simply as a result of this instantaneous body expansion.
I have witnessed this body expansion lift off phenomenon many thousands of times. Case in point, I Hunt a lot of Rock Chucks and they often "stand" when alert in their classic RCBS like pose! A shot into their center of mass chest cavity with a Rifle like the 22-250 with quick expanding bullets will often "launch" these Varmints straight up into the air! The force that makes the Rock Chuck fly straight up is the explosive like expansion of the torso of the Chuck coming in contact with the ground! Thus "lifting" his remains into the air.
The instance pdhntr1 illustrates is similar but in fact is slightly different. His aim point is intended to make more of the bullets energy cause an explosive eruption of the ground or the rock the Varmint is on - thus giving the explosive energy a better chance of imparting longer "air time".
My friends and I call this type shot (that pdhntr1 describes) "barking" them. This name is a reference, I believe, to the phenomenon that Squirrel Hunters observe when they shoot at a Squirrel in a tree and the bullet hits the bark at the jucture of the Squirrels body and the trees bark - thus causing an energetic explosion of bark (and sometimes Squirrel) that causes the Squirrel to "fly" away from the tree! Thus "barking" them.
The bullets we so often send downrange contain huge amounts of energy and that energy when imparted on Varmints will cause them to sometimes fly backwards (away from the shooter!) and sometimes through the process I described above (and by the different process that pdhntr1 describes) they fly straight up into the air - defying gravity!
You are right though the 22-250 will most often impart more air time to Varmints than will the 223 with 12" or 26" barrels - its in the energy numbers more than barrel length.
Have fun with your 223!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

hello, and thanks for the info guys. i've got another question. I am not the most steady'st guy in the woods with a handgun. i am wanting to build a small "gun vise" if u will, that i can mount my gun on and make it with adjustments so i can set up on some rocks above a pd town. i have heard some ppl say that the gun has to be allowed to move (kick) when shot. they said that if you have your gun in a vise rather than holding it on a rest, it will impare the accuracy. i guess i just thought that if you could put your gun in very stable vise it would most likely take 99% of the shooters shakyness out of the shot. thanks

Bkmastr: I have never tried or compared my two Varmint pistols out in a vise type rest.
So I am not the one for the best advice or direction there.
I am willing to take a W.A.G. though and say that a centerfire pistol would have a different P.O.I. when being "secured" in a vise than when be allowed to free recoil with the pistol rested on sand bags. So alternating the two methods (clamping and free recoil) would most likely have to be tested and dealt with somehow.
I have a homemade tri-pod that I like to shoot my pistols off of when doing my thing out "walking Varminting".
It free recoils off of this tri-pod and is pretty steady when used with the typical rear of pistol sand bag support.
When I am parked off road and shooting from my VarmintMobiles window I use one of my wonderful Dog-Gone-Good Window Mount Sandbags to rest my pistols on.
I have several friends that have Varmint pistols but none that I recall use a vise like or clamping rest to Hunt with.
Best of luck with your new rig.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

And never discount the value of a strategically PLACED flat rock and mabey half a handfull of cracked corn...

AllanD

Lotta info here.
Some of it's not quite as accurate as the writer believes. Hate to stir the pot, so please don't take it that way.

Jim: I've shot many thousands of p/dogs here in CO. First 20yrs was with an 06 and 110gr. That's an honest red mist. Nothing left to show except a red triangle.

The last 25yrs was with a Sako .222mag, identical to a .223 far as spec's go. Just a longer neck mostly.

New barrel on it is a .223 because I got tired of fighting lack of brass. Now I've got more than I'll ever dream of using.

I use 55gr El Cheapo Rem's, buy them by the pound at gun shows from my dealer. Works out to about 4 cents each.
This gun will put them out about 3000-3100 depending on load.

For shooting around livestock, and buildings and other places where I can't afford to have a richochette. I use 40gr v max. They also make a 35gr but, beyond 200yds their accuracy is lost and they get wild enough you can't tell what direction they'll go.

I've never shot a short barrel like that, the other guy has, so believe him.

But, head shots or solid body shots most anywhere will launch them in the air. Body shots are quite destructive. Head shots may just take the head off, but, they can sure flip them 3-4 feet in the air too.

I really think the launch has a lot to do with how tight their nerve's are wound sometimes. Haven't you head shot a rabbit with a .22? OR house cats? I've found cat's will flip to 5', maybe higher with a head shot. They are wound tight all the time.

Don't underestimate how massive the launch or the damage with a .223.

Far as a rest for that pistol, or any rifle. I'd highly recommend you put a stud on it and use a bipod. Get the swivel kind so you can move it around for other targets without having to move. I think you'll find that works better than any locking device you can come up with.
They'll jump a little bit, I use it as a solid rest and hold the gun to the bipod and get best accuracy. But, I've watched others just rest it on their shoulder with both hands, and let the forearm lay on the bipod. I just can't seem to get the accuracy that way.

Another thing I've found with hi powered stuff. BIg bores now, they'll shoot high from a bipod from the down pressure from the recoil.

You just have to gain the experience mostly.
I just made a carpet covered piece of tin for a window mount. I have access to a friends shop so can just go in and make things. real handy.

Inside against the window it's verticle, flat top w/carpet glued on, then bends back to the window @ 45%, with a 2" verticle drop into the glass channel as the inside does. seems to work slick so far. Only fired 17 shots then blew a primer and wrecked the ejector. Just got the gun back today. Will know more by next week.

Good luck, hope this helps.

George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Lotta info here.
Some of it's not quite as accurate as the writer believes. Hate to stir the pot, so please don't take it that way.

George,

It doesn't work that way. If I have written something that is not accurate, then post it.

quote:

Jim: I've shot many thousands of p/dogs here in CO. First 20yrs was with an 06 and 110gr. That's an honest red mist. Nothing left to show except a red triangle.

I get the feeling from this statement and the one above that you don't think I have enough experience to comment on the best way to get "air time". Granted you do have me on experience, I have only been at this since 1975, but I do know a lot about red mist. I built a 300 Win Mag on a Win. M17 action with a 1.5" SS Krieger barrel to shoot the 110 gr. V-max. It is one of my dedicated pd rifles. The load is 76.0 gr. IMR 4350 @ 3700 fps. My brother shoots a custom 7mm Mag using the 120 gr. V-max. He tells me the extra 10 grains kills quicker.

Or is it that I am from Wisconsin and due to my location I can't possibly know as much as someone from lets say Colorado or Montana or Sodak, or Nodak, or Wyoming. (all states with huntable pd populations, and BTW if you need any exact locations of pd towns in those states, let me know)

quote:

But, head shots or solid body shots most anywhere will launch them in the air. Body shots are quite destructive. Head shots may just take the head off, but, they can sure flip them 3-4 feet in the air too.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by bkmastr:....but I want to see the dog do some flips in the air.

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1: If what you are after are consistantly acrobatic pds....

George, I read his question as wanting to know if there was ways to get the pd to do some flips.

Not a problem, in the future I will just tell someone to shoot the damn things and hope for the best.

Jim

I think one of these will offer the most dramatic results.

http://www.statearms.com/

Clem,

I know you are right my friend.

Jim

On my recent hunt, we didn't have to many aerobatic pds. But I did pop one's head off and send it sailing through the are.

Funniest thing I have seen in a long time.