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I suppose I'll get lot's of varying opinions here, and that is kind of what I am looking for. I don't think there is a perfect varmint caliber, but I can't decide what caliber to round out my rifle collection with on the low end for varmint hunting with the occasional deer/hog taken with the rifle either. My criteria are fairly simple and straight forward: 1. Ammunition needs to be factory loaded and reasoanbly easy to get. 2. Rifle is to have synthetic or laminated stock and probably a ss barrel. I like and have Ruger, Tika and CZ and would consider a Winchseter. 3. Looking for a very, very flat shooting bullet that won't tear up the varmits, but would have enough energy left to take down a deer/hog with a properly placed shot. 4. Don't want a lot of recoil. 5. Would prefer to shoot one type bullet and not switch bullet types to shoot a deer or hog. Calibers I am considering include: 22 250, 25, 25 06, 25 WSSM, 243, 243 (6 MM) WSSM. Varmints I would mostly hunt here is NC would be fox, bobcat and cyote I have 7 MM Rem Mag that I would like to leave set up for deer and supplement the bottom end with the varmint rifle. Now, if my criteria is skewed in that I need to shoot two different type bullets depending exactly what it is I am going to hunt, I can live with that probably. Looking forward to some varying replies. | ||
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Use your 7MM for the deer and hogs. As for bobcats and fox I feel every gun you have picked there is going to totally blow them to hell. Not a problem if you don't plan on saving some fur. But a good fox or bobcat pelt is nice looking and can bring a little money. I don't think in NC you going to have a lot of shooting over 300 yards. So as little as you want to hear it a .223 is your best bet not wanting to handload. My choice would be a Savage in FV12 (8.75 pounds) or if you want something a little lighter a Savage 16FSS (6.5 pounds) | |||
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BHW, MPO of the ones you named would be the 22-250 for the little guys to not do damage as Jay pointed out. But as Jay pointed out and as you requested, ammo avail., the 223 would be a good bet. My Next choice to go to would be the 243. A little light for distant deer but will do the job and also stop a yote in it's tracks, well after it gets done rolling after getting knocked off it's feet. You brought it up by "I'll get lots of...," with what you are asking for, you will have trouble getting a bullet constructed well enough to not tear up a Varmint but able to take a deer or hog humanly. Personally I believe you have enough of a dilemma to justify the right to purchase two rifles!!!!!!!!!! Smedley ______________________ Smedley  ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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A good dual purpose cartridge would be one of the 6mm's, either a 243 Win. or a 6mm Rem. You would probably be served better by using 2 different bullets, a 95 to 105gr for the bigger stuff & something around a 75gr for the smaller animals. | |||
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For the parameters you describe my first choice would be the .243 Win as suggested by hvy barrel. My second choice would be the .257 Roberts also using 2 different bullets. TreeFarmer NRA Life Member Moderation in the pursuit of decadence is no virture. | |||
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BHW, With all due respect your requirements are absurd. You want a single factory load that will not tear up varmints yet will be adequate for deer and hogs. You don't want to bother to sight in various loads do you or be bothered with much effort? There is no load for you. Join the NRA | |||
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CZ 527 .223 and Federal 60 grain Nosler Partition factory ammo.   | |||
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You sound like you are mighty hard to please. I have kiled the critters you mentioned with a 6mm remington and a nosler partition bullet. Part of the fun is trying to taylor your gun to the hunt, I have a 222 for varmints, the 6mm for long shots. I use a 270 for deer and a 300 weatherby for big south Texas hogs. But of course I cant' take them all at one time. Keep yer powder dry and yer knife sharp. | |||
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I appreciate everyone's input. I have settled on the Winchester 243 WSSM. Now all I need to do is find the money to buy it. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BHW: I appreciate everyone's input. I have settled on the Winchester 243 WSSM. Well that will certianly be fur friendly on that bobcat!  | |||
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"fur friendly on the bobcat" And when you save up the money for the rifle, you better put a good bit more in the sock for the factory ammo if you're not reloading so you can buy up all that the WallyWorlds and local shops have to sell at "closeout" prices!!! GHDGroundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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Sounds like it's to late to stear you differently! I've been doing exactly what you describe on the west coast with a .257 Roberts for years. I do however reload so I used two different bullets. I zero'd it so the varmint load was dead on at 200 yards. Then shot the deer load without changing anything so I knew where it hit. Works great. Up close though, the deer capable load will not be freindly for fur at all. Nate | |||
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BHW a 6mm caliber will do all you want it to with the heavier well constructed bullets. They will not overly expand on the small critters but will perform well on the larger animals. Bullets you could look for would be 90gr Lapua Scenars, 100gr Nosler parts 105 Spirepoints etc. Basically anything with a bit of jacket about it. Get yourself a decent load set up with a quality mil dot scope, work out your come ups and windage and shoot the hell out of everything. Bad news the .243 wssm. Don't get one if you can avoid it. Straight .243 will do all you ever want for the purpose you describe. ATB | |||
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Other then Winchester possibly closing their doors, what is the bad news about the 243 wssm? | |||
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What can the WSSM's do with any given bullet in any of offered diameters that couldn't already be done with what was there before???? Certainly not the .224 diameter!! The 22-250 and Swift can do that deal as far as the 223WSSM can and components(brass) and loadings are much more available for them!! The bottom line is on the .224's......a long range, easy to load for, reach out and touch a varmint.....and did I mention inherrent accuracy? the old tried and true 22-250 is one tough nut to crack!! The Swift will hold it's own against the afforementioned arguments!! Now to the 6mm category!!! The .243 Winchester has been doing the deal on varmints and whitetails since the mid fifties!! And the 6mmRemington(originally with the 12" twist and called the .244 Remington!!) reintroduced with an adequate twist the next year, has been doing the deal on a bunch of stuff for a long time too!!! And now on to the .257 versions!!! TOPPING A 25-06 IN THE QUARTER BORES is going to be a chore!!! Velocity, components, accurracy.......it is there in the 25-06!! Yea the .257 Weatherby has it beat in speed.....at the expense of powder and cost of components not to mention the "gimmick of the year" when Weatherby introduced the Weatherbys with " a caliber of freebore"!!! BS!!! Bottom line is there's a place for the tried and true rifle chamberings from the past and into the future!!! The "johnny come latelys" are playing on the mind games that "we all think we need one"!!! ANd some of you folks are going to recognize the poster and then J.I.M.S.(jump in my doo-doo for those of you who don't understand computer jargon!!) for jumping on the .204 bandwagon!! Go ahead!! The .204 was a new commercial chambering offering distinct advantages(less powder, neglible recoil, inherrent accurracy(since it was based on the .222MAG which was the parent of the 6x47 that would still be the king of the BR crowd if Pendall and Palmisano hadn't figured out a better mousetrap...the PPC's) and it is worthwhile in the varmint fields!!! Now there's going to be some folks that jump in here and try to argue .223........."not unless you have a fast twist barrel and want to shoot the 68-80 grain pills in your .223" that you can convince me (or probaly any of the other .20 caliber crowd on here) that it is superior!! Take the fast twists back up to the 22-250 and 220 Swift and ok, we may have to look at them again!! So Winchester is going belly up!! Big deal!! The WSSM's probably will follow the company!!! GHD Groundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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You hear alot of negative about the wssm's. Most of the problems that are associated with Winchesters poor quality control. Most of the people who complain about the have never shot one. They are just set in their ways. Kevin Weaver just finshed my new 223 wssn. He built it on a mod 70 action that he accurized, he used a 26" 1-14 #2 fluted Panor barrel. We are still in the barrel breakin and load development stage. It only has had 15 rounds fired though the barrel, shots 12-15 were 3/8" center to center, with the 40gr Nosler BTs over 46grs of Varget at 4406 fps. We are going to work up the 52 TSX for whittail after we are satisfied with the coyote loads. It should only shoot better as the barrel shoots in. Dr B | |||
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Throttle back on the exclamation points. The posts read better!!!!! It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance | |||
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whats the big deal about componets the bullet and primer are the same, powder only cost pennies, and brass is only a phone call to midway. So the componet argument nothing but ravings. If you are realy woried about brass buy 500 or 1000 rounda when you buy your rifle and you have a supply that will last longer than your barrel.  Dr B | |||
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Dr B, Then call Mid Way and order 500, 22-250's, 220 Swifts, 222MAGS, .223's, .243's, 6mm's!!! GHD Groundhog Devastation(GHD) | |||
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I'd have recommended either a 243Win (NOT the WSSM) or a 6mm Rem. Though the desire to use "one load for all" is absurd (though that word in this case seems grotesquely inadequate) the requirement: "Ammunition needs to be factory loaded and easy to get" is certainly NOT met by the 243WSSM and it is arguable that ammunition for this caliber will be around five years from now. I am NOT a fan of the 243Win, but anywhere you can find ammo you find a selection of 243win factory loadings... the same cannot be said of the WSSM. as to a specific rifle? Either the winchester "Coyote" or a Remington 700LVS "Light varminter", and if those are two pricey look at a savage. I think by comparison the CZ and Tika not as good a rifle as the less expensive Savage rifles. the Savage IS available in stainless with a laminated stock for 1/2-2/3 the price of either the Winchester or the Remington. and from what I've seen lower prices than the CZ and Tika. This is a typical "opinion poll" type post where someone lists their list of contradictory requirements asks people what would fill them then announces a choice ignoring ALL of those listed requirements. your logic sir is on about the same level as that of a woman trying to choose what type of pillow sham is needed for the bed in the guest bedroom, INSISTING that our input is necissary then ignoring anything we say... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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So what about either the 22 250 or 25 06 caliber for varmint/predator hunting? | |||
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Reading back through your posts it's obvious that you are not concerned with a fur friendly load for fox or bobcats. So just stay with your 7MM and go to some light bullets. You can save yourself about $700. | |||
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$700? I'm tempted to start laughing.... My Rem700VSSF was $700 bare in the box, add a scope ($190 on a Closeout), scope-base ($23) rings ($30) there's $950-ish right there... and of course it need a Bipod, Case, sling... I think just a BIT more than $700 if he just keeps the 7mmRemMag and loads some 120gr Ballistic tips.... If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Allan I'd have to agree with you totally. But I think your getting my drift. He's completely gone away from some of the things he was looking for in his original post. But I usually buy used. | |||
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Actually I haven't gone away from my original post. The 22 250 and 25 06 were two of the calibers that were listed. While I like the 243 WSSM, I think the 22 250 and 25 06 will provide a better opportunity to buy factory loads in a greater varierty and lower price than the WSSM. I suppose Winchester will move overseas so I am not sure the supply of WSSM factory ammo will dry up, but that is not a given. Yes, certainly I could save probably over $1000 by using my 7 MM instead of buying another rifle. I just bought another used rifle so that doesn't present a concern. Since I have not bought another rifle, that is then still an option. If I can afford the dedicated varmint rifle that would certainly be my preference. The difference is need vs want. In this case I agree the need may not be there since I own a 7 MM, but the want is. I have seen enough post to this topic to look at a BT bullet in lieu of a TSX. The lighest factory load I recall seeing in 7MM is 120 grain. Anyone seen a factory load for a 7MM in 90-100 grain range? So back to my last post: if I have reconsidered that the WSSM may not be cartridge of choice and if the choice were now between the 22 250 and 25 06 what do most varmint hunters see as being the difference. | |||
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BHW Did you forget this part of your post? Now would you like to harvest them in reasonable condition or just blow them to hell? Reduced 7MM loads This is still going to be over kill on a fox or bobcat. | |||
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I think you really aren't telling enough about what you have as options. You start out asking for a vermin/deer rifle. Then let us know the 7mm RM is available to you. So unless something terrible happened to it, you have a great deer rifle already! If you really "need" a deer capable varmit rifle, and have no intention of reloading, then I'd say go with a .243 Win. I'd prefer a .257 cal in either a Roberts or Savage variety but little is available as factory choices. But don't expect it to be "fur friendly" at all! You'll be sewing a lot! The .22-250 makes the better sense as it is a varmit rifle. Deer can be taken with it using heavy well constructed bullets and lots of practice. The ideal choice would be even smaller. Like the .204 or .223 then use whatever factory offering does the least damage. Even the old .17 Rem would be great but ammo may be an issue. Saving fur for sale while using a deer rifle is like combing your hair in a hurricane. You can do it, but whats the point? As has been said you have a couple viable choices. If you loaded for yourself the .250 Savage or the .257 Roberts are about ideal. The .243W is pretty close to the .250 on deer, and offers light bullets for the vermin. But I'd expect big holes. Why not get a .22 Mag, .17 HMR, or something for collecting fur? Are shots going to be far enough that you need more? I have posted pictures of stuff taken with my .22 Mag in quite open areas as they were called into range. One of my young sons took a 'yote at about 30 yards with it, and I took one bobcat with it a couple years back at about 15 yards. Called in the predators won't be far off and in need of big horsepower. Nate | |||
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Big Nate; I think you have responded to my post with the most valuable information for me. I do think I want to save the fur at least on some of them, so it appears after all this deliberation and going back and forth that the 22 250 appears to be my best bet for a dedicated varmint rifle. I appreciate everyones responses. I am satisfied with where I am at with this caliber dilema now. | |||
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My personal choice would be torn between the 243Win and the 6mmRem, And that choice would be tipped in favor of the 6mm because I reload, and previously owned a 6mmRem and still have both loading and forming dies Since I already have a .22cal Varmint rifle in 223Rem so there'd be little point in getting another .22. And it wasn't really a hard decision at all to shoose a 223Rem over a 22-250 as I already had dies and (literally) a wheelbarrow full of brass for the 223Rem There is however an unfilled space in my armory for a 6mm, but as I've stated elsewhere I wouldn't buy ANY factory rifle for 6mmRem as I strongly believe that caliber should be chambered in a long action rifle. I firmly agree with Big Nate about the smaller 25cal's as being better suited, I've owned a 25-06... long enough to burn out the barrel and while I'd like to own anther it isn't a priority as most of What I used it for (a "Beanfield" rifle for deer) is better served with a 7mmMag loaded with 120gr X-bullets. I'd love to have the money to buy one of the Remington700Classics in 300Savage, so I could rebarrel it to 250savage with 1:10" twist, though there is nothing that would do that I couldn't actually do better with another rifle I already have in 6.5x55swede... I can use the Swede as an excuse to not get a 7mm-08 either... Though if I didn't already have a 6.5x55 I wouldn't buy one, I would get a 7mm-08 and infact I will probably get a 7mm-08 anyway, as I also have a gap in my armory for a stainless steel "light" deer rifle, just in case I hunt somewhere that I can't legally headshoot does with my .223. I am well aware that 22cal centerfires are not legal for deer most places. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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