A while back webfeet was discussing the recoil aspects of the .17 Fire Ball compared to some venerable old .22 caliber rounds. Also some have discussed the ability or lack there of for performance of the midsized .17 Fire Ball. The last week my wife took 5 days off and we hunted gophers and rock chucks for most of it.
We used primarily .17 HMR's on gophers and one chuck my bride whacked but also I broke out my .17 Fire ball to burn up the rest of the factory ammo I originally bought with the rifle to obtain brass. My rifle is a VSF Remington that has had the action single pointed, the bolt bushed and double sleeved etc etc. As it shot well from the factory and I liked the looks of the factory barrel so instead of replacing it I had the smith set the factory barrel back a turn and re-chamber it with a minimum spec, zero free-bore custom reamer that snugs up the neck without having to turn brass. I can now seat 20 to 30 grain bullets to fit in the magazine, touch the lands and have good neck purchase on the bullet.
With that work and the rifles 26 inch barrel it clocks 4,1000+ FPS using factory 20 grain V-Max's (Remington can call em what they want but they are 20 grain V-Max's made for Big Green by Hornady just the same). Doesn't matter about who produces the projectiles cause that is some top notch taylor made ammo just the same anyway. In my rifle it's agg'ing in the .3's and that's fantastic in my book for any load especially factory.
With all the debate of the little .17 Fire Ball I thought I'd post a few pics of some chucks I popped with it. All were in the 200ish yard range give or take and the wind was running 13 mile per average according to my Kestrel, gusts to near 20.

These were all one shot kills and in my rifle every hit (or miss) is visible in the scope. I laid some of em on their inards cause my beloved bride thought it a bit gross not to clean up the presentation she's the one with all the social skills, I'm not thus afflicted . These weren't posted to be gross but to show the performance of those little 20 grainers on varmints.



This one "is" gross, sorry.
This fella had his head and just a bit of his shoulders exposed over a rock at a bit over 200 yards (I barely cleared the rock in fact). That is an entrance hole and there was no exit. You can kinda see there was almost nothing left inside him as it was a jellied mess. I was in a gusty cross wind and held in the fur about an inch windside of where I hit (so much for ya can't use it in the wind! It was an identical hold to what I'd of aimed with my .223 using 40's).
You couldn't have killed him any faster or deader if you'd dropped a safe on him out of an airplane!



I know I'm a confessed small caliber junky but that kind of performance with no appreciable barrel heating issues and minimal sound has a lot to do with it. Sure is a nifty little round!
I was gonna take a few exploded gopher pictures but even a cretin like myself has boundarys......well kind of any way....alright so I don't. Ok so my wife was giving me the look, you know the look? the look that says like "killing em is one thing and it's even fun...but... but pics for posterity . Suffice it to say the gophers left the scene of the crime in six directions at once, quite dramatic and ya see it all at 20X .
Enough outta me.

Lokks like a fun time Doug. We don't have the big dogs here in Alberta, so I'll have to get down your way next year and see some action,plan for it.
Regards Greg

Thanks for the posting Doug...

seems the fireball did a darn good job!

I loaded up 250 rounds using those 20 grain HPs from Mid South for an older friend...

I think that those bullets are the bulk blems from the Speer 20 grain XTP loaded a lot in the 17 HMR...

I am anxious to see how that bullet performs at the higher velocity....

it sure is a much better performer in the 17 HMR, than the 17 V max in my opinion...

the 20 grain FMJ also increases the use for that cartridge in my book...

If I could pick those up in bulk to load on the Fireball, then I could make that decision to build one in heartbeat...

Your right on the XTP part seafire. Probably won't be quite as explosive as the 20 grain V-Max but will penetrate more, I'd expect to see an exit wound on the same shot with that bullet. That XTP would make a good fox bullet if ya wanted to keep the fur I'm guessing.
Where this round really shines in my opinion is with the 25 grain V-Max that is a real serious rat spreader of a bullet.
While I love the HMR the truth is the .17 Fire Ball is to the HMR what a .222 is to the .22Mag IMO.

m-d,

Great Report and a nice looking rifle, too!

Somehow my wife also fails to comprehend the critical importance of after-action photgraphic analysis from our South Dakota PD shoots, too.

quote:

While I love the HMR the truth is the .17 Fire Ball is to the HMR what a .222 is to the .22Mag IMO.

Excellent comparison.

I have a 17 HMR and except for the price of ammunition (especially here in Europe) am pleased with the rifle.

As for the centerfires - does this cartridge (or any of the current crop of 17's) have any of the old "Small Bore/Clean Bore" issues that have abounded in firearms press or is this just so much bunk?

I'm not referring to neglecting or abusing a rifle's bore; simply the old "has to be cleaned every so often to get best peformance" or groups start to "Open-Up" Syndrome?

I'm asking of course because either a 17/20 AI Hornet or 17/20 Fireball is really starting to peak my interest.

Thx.

Howdy from Montana Gerry .
I believe the old magazine reports were a combination of three things.
1) older rougher barrels.
2) the .17 Remington in all due respect is quite overbore. What other round do you load for where the charge frequently out weighs the projectile?
3) it was a new concept and in people in general and science in particular folks are hung up on change and don't like it! They have their favorites and don't confuse em with facts that conflict with their opinions. Even today some knowledgeable shooters are convinced that .17 projectiles are all over the place in wind. All projectiles are all over the place in wind to one degree or another. Ballistic programs on computers have set it all straight but some still don't want long held "opinions" messed up with ballistic fact. BC, bullet weight and velocity dictate wind characteristics not bore size.

The bottom line in these ramblings is that with today's baby butt smooth barrels and cleaner burning propellants I don't clean my .17's or .20's any more than I clean my .22 stuff. Keeping in mind I'm not talking a case that burns 28 grains of powder for a 20 grain bullet.
A lot of what a guy hears today is still armchair, magazine reading, leftover bias from fellas that haven't even shot em, they just know innately they are bad cause they read it in a magazine back in 76 and their favorite gun writer didn't like em.
That's my opinion anyway and about all I shoot other than big game is .17's and .20's. I love em!!

Great reply Doug! At least 3 times a week I here at my gunshop how the wind does terrible things to the 17's and 20's..............from people who haven't shot them!!
Was great to get the telephone call from you yesterday! Always great to put a voice to a name on the forum! GHD

Nice talking to you as well GHD. Hope you get a chance to lay waste to some ground hogs before too long.
We'll talk again soon.

Seafire,

I'm curious to hear what you think of the Mid-South bullets. I have a thou of them that I mollied but haven't loaded yet.

Mark

Yo M-D,

Greetings from The Fatherland too!

Thx for the response and to those who pitched in, too.

I have a Belgian Pal who shoots a .17 Remington but that's the extent of what I've seen here in Europe for the sub-cals. Even my 17 HMR is considered by most here to be pretty Odd-Ball.

Question, how did the gunsmith single point cut the receiver and still use the stock barrel. I realize the barrel was set back, but that does not seem like enough thread engagement. I am not raggin on you, but I asked a smith to do the same and he said he could not. Either way its a great looking and shooting gun!

Go to this site. Click on services and look at action truing.

Gre'Tan Rifles
Greg makes fixtures that many other smiths use. Suffice it to say not all smiths are created equal. I have a number of rifles he's done and he is truly gifted. Can't tell ya how he does everything he does only that he does it and it works.
The only reason I used the factory barrel is that it shot quite well as factory and I liked it's looks. now that the work on the action is done when it gets re-barreled all it'll take is a new barrel, chambering and headspacing it.
Thought I might add this picture as well. This was taken right after the rifles return. It is a 6 shot group at 100 yards, truth is I was gonna shoot 10 but the 6th was top right and I just knew I was gonna bungle it all up so ego prevailed and I stopped after 6.



He is indeed a first rate smith. Keep in mind that's a factory barrel albeit attached to a fully massaged rifle.
I should add that this group was shot with Remington factory ammo as I was still needing to shoot it to get brass. It's a 20 gain bullet and although Remington calls it an "Accutip" and would appear to have made it, the projectile itself is a 20 grain Hornady V-Max badge engineered with a different color tip. That really doesn't matter a lick cause it is still some seriously capable ammo!! That is a 20 grain V-Max next to the group.

quote:

Originally posted by redial:
Seafire,

I'm curious to hear what you think of the Mid-South bullets. I have a thou of them that I mollied but haven't loaded yet.

Mark

wel I can tell ya, NON molyed, that they shot pretty darn well.. groups were as accurate as the V Maxes with the same powder charges.... and the cost was a lot less...

wasted one or two loose sage rats at the range and they were quite explosive...

Thanks SF - that's what I wanted to hear!

BTW, I think you could send Gre Tan a broomhandle and it'd shoot MOA when you got it back. Greg's really good.

Mark

Regarding the MidSouth bullets, they appear identical to Berger's 20 grainers (match, not MEF) and are slightly harder.

A dozen rockchucks and two dozen gophers contributed to the research on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons. Many audible ricochets were heard after passing through a splatted gopher and one, possibly more, passed through an average sized 'chuck.

For better or worse,

Mark