I just bought a Rem 700 VLS. I made up four different loads for it.

H414 41.2 gr
IMR 3031 36 gr
IMR 4064 36 gr
Varget 36 gr
55 gr V-Max

None of these combinations will do better than a 1.5 inch group. Does anyone have any suggestions for a different load that has worked for them or is my gun going to have to go to a gun smith? Today I floated the barrel and it still didn�t help any. Anybody�s comments would be much appreciated.

You may try starting lower and working your way up with the powder charges. Those are all max. loads. You will probably find a sweet spot at less than maximum. Also, try different seating depth's. Start at 2.375 and go up in .010 increments. For the record I use H380 but there is no reason H414 shouldn't provide good performance. You may also want to try a different bullet like a 50 grainer just to see if your rifle likes them better. If you have access to a runout gauge check you reloads for concentracity.
Have you tried any factory ammo for baseline of accuracy?

We've had great success in many guns with 34gr of 3031 behind the 55gr Sierra BTHP.

you might go to http://www.saubier.com. They review the "ladder" method of working up loads

personally, I'd try different weight of charge before I'd change powders

I've had 2 700 VS's in 22-250. Both had the barrels "broken in". shoot 1, clean, then VERY LIGHTLY lap the bore (Flitz)...shoot again for maybe 10. Both shot sub 1/2"

Make sure the action screws are tightened correctly. If these don't help, swap scopes. I'd be realy upset if I spent hours then found the scope wasn't holding. Actually, come to think of it I DID do this and, yes, I was more than a little upset. Good luck

try 35 gr. of varget or 748 with a 55 gr. nosler ballistic tip. fed. 210 primer. play around wil OAL.

one other thought, i assume you have a stable rest and your scope is not the issue?

Thanks for the replys. I am pretty sure it is not my scope. I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 on it and it has hardely bin shot. I had it on another varmith rifle and was making 3/8 groups with it. I am going to tinker a litle with bullet weight and smaller charges. I know these guns come with a rate of twist at 14". This type of twist likes smaller bullet weights. Is 55gr to heavy or is it considered a light bullet in 22-250. Thanks again for the advise.

Wyat, have you had your trigger adjusted and floated the barrel? Makes a lot of difference.I've never had a Rem heavy barrel that I could not make shoot under an inch very easily,most would go to 3/4".I've have/had five of them..I think.When you get it shooting go give those Southern Alberta coyotes some grief.

Wyat: I assume we are talking a VLS in 22-250 Remington here and not a 220 Swift. I know Remington quit making the Swift in VLS a while back but you might have a long time shelf sitter or something like that.
I just last month bought a VLS in 260 Remington and can't wait to shoot it. As soon as the weather cooperates. Along with the other good suggestions here I hope you wait for as near perfect conditions to do load development as practical. I have been waiting a month here in SW Montana to start load development on 2 new Varminters I want to bring up to speed.
The Remington 700 VLS's I am familiar with also all shot well! All doing under 1" five shot groups.
Now to my suggestion - I have had great luck with Sierra's 50 and 55 grain Blitz bullets (not the BlitzKing plastic tip bullets just the plain old cheap Blitzes!). These are very accrate projectiles! Next I would try the Nosler 55 gain Ballistic Tips. These are much more expensive bullets but perform well both accuracy wise and lethality wise on Varmints.
And I am assuming this Rifle of yours will be used mostly for Varminting but if not then get some top quality Berger or other brand Bench Rest quality bullets and give them a try.
Bedding job next option!
Good luck!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hey Wyat, From your post I get the impression you have not been reloading for very long. Is that an accurate "guess" on my part?

Do you have a Speer or Hodgdon Manual? If so, which number is it?

Did you buy the rifle new? Approximately how many shots have you put through it? How often do you clean between shots?

I've never seen a bad VLS and I'm sure I've fired "at least" 2 dozen of them.

First order of business,is to determine mechanical harmony.

Make sure action screws are snugged up,base screws are tight,ring screws are tight and the scope hasn't puked.

From there,I'd bed it and float the barrel. Then I'd give Re-15 a whirl,with your aforementioned 55gr V-Max.

It sounds like something is loose,to me................

I have been reloading since I was a kid, almost 10 years. I have all the new manuals and old, Speer, Nosler, Barnes, and Hodgon manuals. I have about 15 different powders, and many different bullet types. I have shot about 50 rounds through it, and it is a new riffle. I broke the barrel in already and clean often. It is a 22-250.

WYAT,
I BOUGHT A REMINGTON 700VS IN 22-250 OVER A YEAR AGO AND HAD THE SAME PROBLEM. I HAD BEEN USING LOADS FOR 55 GR V-MAX AND NOSLER BT'S WHICH SHOT GREAT IN MY RUGER. I FINALLY SWITCHED TO A 52 GR HPBT BEHING 35 GRAINS VARGET AND MY GROUPS TURNED INTO VERY TIGHT CLOVERLEAFS. I PLAN ON TRYING 50 GR NOSLER BT'S AS SOON AS THE WEATHER WARMS UP IN SOUTH DAKOTA(WHICH MAY TAKE A WHILE). LIGHTER BULLETS MAY BE YOUR ANSWER. IT WORKED FOR ME.

Hey Wyat, Sounds like a good background to get started.

Is there a particular reason you just randomly picked a "single load" for those powders rather than "developing" the loads?

Are you familiar with the Audette Method of Load development?

Any of the powders you listed have an excellent chance of providing fine accuracy for you "IF" you drop back to the good old Load Development process - start low and work up if the Pressure Indicators show no problems. Start with the bullet kissing-the-lands and load a series headed toward MAX. Be prepared to stop if Pressure Signs pop up.

If you have access to a 300yd range, you can get the very best benefit of Mr. Audette's excellent Load Development method. As you shoot, watch for "Point of Impact Convergance". This will indicate you are close to a stable harmonic. Then reshoot the Converging Loads and vary the Seating Depth for fine tuning of the harmonic.

...

There is no such thing as a MUC Load(Magical, mystical, mythical universal charge) for a specific powder. A specific Load that works well in one rifle might work OK in a different rifle, but the odds are an even better Load can be found through proper development.

The bottom line is that there are no shortcuts to a good Load. You still have to "develop" it for the specific firearm.

If you have H380, start with it, otherwise use any of the other powders you listed. Take your time developing the Load and your accuracy should fall right into line.

if you do not have any luck with the load development, take the rifle to a gunsmith and have the action screws torqued to about 43 lbs., have the trigger pull reduced to 2 lbs. bed the action, float the barrel and have the crown looked at. still suspicous of the scope or rings/bases. if all else fails have it re barreled.

I don't think I would throw the gun out yet. I have a VLS in .22-250 and one in 6mm and both have shot superbly.

First off, with only 50 rounds through the rifle, I wouldn't consider the barrel broke in. I would double that before I got too serious about developing ONE load.

Then, pick one or two powders that have historical success, and start working a load with different powder charges and bullet depth. And, as has been mentioned, drop back off the highs and see if that helps.

I would consider different bullets also. But, you should be able to do that after you have seen improvement with the current bullets you are using. Personally, I have had great luck with 52 grainers.

It won't hurt to check your scope mounts etc. for any problems. However, those type of problems are easily diagnosed. Especially if the shots are stringing etc. or climbing ladders.

Give yourself a little time, and try a few extra things. I think you will come out okay!

Good Luck!

I had bad luck with a new M700 Varmint Stainless a few years back in 223 Remington. Turned out to be a barrel that required a "break in" period that was a complete cleaning including a haevy dose of copper solvent and lots of patch/brush work. This is now one of my most accurete rifles. Worth every bit of effort I put in during break-in cleaning.

I have very good luck with Sierra BlitzKing bullets in both 22-250 Remington and 223 Remington rifles. I like Benchmark powder for both.

wyat
i have a vls in .223 and had the same problem. i tried 4-6 loads with the 50gr and 55gr vmax and no luck. i then sent it to a gunsmith, had the action pillar bedded,free floated the barrel and lightened the trigger, end of headache! i've shot a couple groups in the 3s with it and it always shoots around .5". its not the fastest load i could get to shoot but it does what i want,.5",good luck!

I have not read all the replies but I will offer my experience with my 6MM VLS and that boiled down to---it will NOT shoot any type of a boattail bullet,PERIOD. It will shoot 87gr Hornady SP FB at about3225 and it drives them like tacks one on top of the other. I also just found it will shoot 5, 70gr. Speer TNT's in about 7/8" and is running about 3450 to 3500, I haven't been able to chronograph this one yet but, three of the last 4 coyotes I shot with that load/bullet were DRT (Dead Right There) The shots ranged from just over 256 yards to 414 yards, again measured with a laser rangefinder. None of the bullets exited as they blew up inside and accuracy was maintained at distance much better than I thought. I will play with this load more in the spring.

Basically what I am offering is the advise that you may want to try flat base bullets. They were the exact fix for my rifle and I don't imagine it would shoot better with boat tails I just didn't get to shoot the bullet I wanted, I ended up with something that may be better; go figure! Good Luck, Good Hunting and Merry Christmas. "Z"

I've never seen a heavy (or light)22-250 that wouldn't shoot well with 55 Sierras and 35 gr 4895. I would try that, but I don't think that's your problem. I have a VLS in .223 that I bought from a friend after 10 shots because it wouldn't group. (unusual for 700). When I looked the rifle over, the screws were tight, but the rear tang of the rifle didn't look like it was all the way down. I took the stock off and the trigger group was rubbing on the wood and 5 minutes with a file fixed this(more like 1 min.) the first group with Rem factory loads went .430

I had one exactly the same way yours is .. I have since traded it but only because I was made and offer I could not refuse...

To get it to shoot I HAD to do the following....

1. Glass bed the front recoil lug to 1" in front.
2. glass bed the tang area
3. Make sure that the barel was free floated.. it was not 3" in front of the recoil lug!!!
4. Tighten the action screws to 65 inch lbs. one was at 30 the other was so tight it was hard to unscrew. This alone will mess things up.
5. Lighten the 50 lb. trigger to about 2 lbs.

Varget and V-maxs will eventually shoot itty bitty groups.. just gotta play with the charge weight....

I find it interesting that a gun is condemned as "it won't shoot", when 4 random loads with one bullet type and 4 powders are loaded and tried with less that stellar results.
Rambling thru a loading manual and picking some load does NOT mean it will shoot well in any particular firearm.

The tail does not the dog wag.

Pick 4 loads (AT LEAST (4 is probaably not near enough)) with each of the powders and shoot them side by side so one can easily see any trends in group with changes in powder charges. If there is a change in group shape (horizontal to vertical dispersion for instance), try loads 1/2 the way in between the two.

Finding "the" load for a particular gun may be easy and may well be very elusive, then again for whatever reason some guns WILL NOT SHOOT WELL.

It will be harder if:

the scope mounts are loose

the scope is loose

the scope is mounted in a bind

the action screws are too loose

The action screws are too tight

The action is in a bind

The stock provides inconsistent pressures on the barrel or action

The firearm does not like that bullet weight

The gun does not like that bullet style

The gun does not like that powder

The gun prefers 0.1-0.9 more or less of that powder

The shots are fired too quickly heating the gun.

Then theeis always the variables introduced by the shooter.

I have seen shooters on the range surprised by 1 foot groups when a big fluffy coat or such is used as a rest

DUH!

LouisB

All just opinions and wild suppositions of course.

[ 12-26-2002, 20:12: Message edited by: TCLouis ]

Zedman raised an issue I've found with Rem factory barrels - they seem to prefer flatbased bullets. All my barrels that have this quirk are Rem factory. Weird.

DRT? Hain't heard that in a while! Zed, you wouldn't possibly be 10-8, wouldja?

Redial

Welllllll, it depends on who or whom you talk to...some would say I'm 10-8, some say 10-9 when I'm done talking and others just say I'm 10-90 J2. So yes, maybe, could be, absolutely, fairly certain, ya know I'm not really sure. Good Hunting, "Z"

Thanks for all the posts. There are a lot of good suggestions out there. I finally found a load that would group well for me. I just got in to much of a rush and was woried my gun was a dud. I ended up using 39gr of H414 and a 50gr Speer HP. Thanks again for all the replies.

The receiver screws in the Rem. 700 PSS are specified to be torqued to 65 inch pounds. This in a alum. pillar-post mounting system. Make sure there is no run-over of synthetic between the alum. mount and the receiver. I'm familiar with the Rem. 700 PSS. I don't have any data for the VLS.

Although Remington warns against adjusting the factory spec trigger, the first thing I did with my rifle was to back off the trigger from the 6 lb pull the factory sets up, reducing it to about 18 oz. Some Rem. triggers won't allow this reduction. Some will. If yours won't allow this reduction the trigger will fail to cock.

I bounced the butt stock off a concrete floor several times to ensure that the trigger would not release accidently. Also, I'm shooting off a bench and have the gun pointed down range when closing the bolt -- so it's safe. Never had an AD.

ANY Rem. 700 should shoot sub MOA out of the box. But it takes quality bullets and some accurately loaded ammo. Before trying to "fix" anything on the rifle with modifications, I'd try to figure out what the gun is doing with some factory match grade ammo.

Run a chronograph on your ammo and have a look at the standard deviation in velocity. I thought I was pretty consistent in loading until the chrono proved me wrong.

Modern rifles have notoriously long throats and it's impossible to get the bullets seated near the lands. My solution to this in the Rem. 700 PSS was to have the bbl. set-back and rebored to Ackely. That improved accuracy somewhat. I'm able to shoot mid 3's with my loads, but I'm turning the necks, fire forming brass and individually weighing each charge on two scales.

[ 12-28-2002, 01:22: Message edited by: Genghis ]