Shoots little bitty groups..

but I always complain about this rifle...

because of the cost to feed it..

17HMR Ruger 77/17 with Weaver 3 x 9 scope..

some of my friends think I am idiot..for not loving this rifle..

some folks really love the way I set up a rifle like this for varmint shooting tho...

it is as stable as you could ever wish for..

I got the idea from a couple of 70 yr old guys who target shoot air rifles twice a month... this is exactly what their set up is..

it sure does work..

I hate to admit I let my HMR go because of the cost. The performance VS cost was not effective. For what I do a 223 made more sense.

Ammo cost is a definite deterrent and one of the reasons I no longer have any .17 HMRs in the safe. But that is not the only reason.

While they tend to shoot very well, I never grew fond of the HMR as it filled no real niche for me.

Where I live, there are no small varmints like ground squirrels or prairie dogs, and from personal experience, the .17 HMR is woefully inadequate on any of our larger critters such as 'coon, bobcat and coyote (though I know some will disagree).

Therefore, there are numerous other calibers -- the Hornet and .223 among them -- that will do everything the HMR was designed for -- and do it more effectively and at less of a cost as well.

I am not a big rimfire kinda guy anyway but "hate" might be a bit strong. I don't hate any rifle that looks that fine.

Never liked the 17 "wounding wonder", and the expence now is outragous.

I bought one and sold it with- in a year, went back to my boring 222, 22 hornet and 22 mag for gereral duty. My HMR was accurate but just did not kill the way I wanted.

Ed

Having purchased a 5MM Remington Mag new in the box back when and then having the ammo go insane then disappear I learned a lesson.
Having Richardsons ground squirrels we call gophers in numbers someone that's never been here can't comprehend it's hard to explain how effective the "Hated" HMR is for smucking them.
Due to the above situations and because it was love at first shot in the gopher fields with one I not only bought the rifle I stocked up on ammo (Big Time!) back at first release when it was right about the same price or a little less than .22 Mag ammo. I love all 3 of mine, they fill a wonderful niche on "appropriate sized" pests. (Re-read, "Appropriate sized pests"!)
Seafire when I have a rifle I hate, it immediately moves to the top slot on the endangered species list. Give ya a hundred bucks for it . Don't hate it that bad now do ya?

If I didn't already have my 22 hornet dialed in, I might have been tempted...

My buddy has one on a savage thumbhole, and it shoots really tiny groups as well. He's bugged me to get one too, and I admit I just don't feel the desire.

Sad not to desire a rifle, I know, but... ?

I think I could be tempted by the 17 fireball easier, and even that I'm not feeling much desire.

I'd love to have a carbon copy of this rifle in 17 Fireball...

I'll just have to get around to having one rebarreled..

Mont Doug,

I'd sell this rifle for $100.00
but then shipping and handling is $525.00....

Even if I don't like a rifle... I'm not going to take a financial bath on it..

however I did take a 17 HMR and just gave it to a handicapped person in a wheel chair, for free...it was a heavy barrel, laminated stock Marlin..they wanted one and only had like $150.00 budget for it...

so being the cold hearted neocon I am, I juat gave it to her and let her keep her $150.00..

It went to a good home and the excitement on the lady's face ( friend of the family) was worth it..

afterall, $150.00 is just like getting 15 boxes of ammo for free is all...or 750 rounds..

I can shoot hat many rounds in just an day with my 22...

Hate the rifle?? NO.

Hate the cartridge?? YES.

I had a couple of good shooting 17's myself. They shot great, but I was disappointed in the cartridge--all the way around. Tom.

On a serious note seafire it wouldn't take anything much to have a .22 Mag barrel put on it if that'd make ya hate it less.
There's always the old swap it for something else trick too.
As they say with automobiles "there's a butt for every seat". Same with firearms ,you might hate it but someone out there would love it. "There's a finger for every trigger", if you will. Good luck with it.

Had one- synthetic stock/blued sporter barrel.

Table leg or worse. Junk, actually.

Bye-eeeeeeeeeee...

Doug,

I have a 22 Mag in the Blued/Wodd version..

It is an attractive firearm.. and very accurate..

no one seems to want to buy what this one is worth.. they all want a 1/2 price bargain out of it..

who knows, if the dumocrats get into office, this may the only varmint rifle style that escapes their scrutiny...

suddenly this may become my main varmint rifle.. and we will be looking at $30.00 a box ammo, with governmental approved authorization ID card to buy it...with a limit of 5 boxes annually..

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:




some of my friends think I am idiot..for not loving this rifle..

..

You are not wrong! That rifle is a travisty on firearms marketing and a POS to boot. Count your blessings on your eventual sound judgement. roger

Dear seafire2 --

re: "I just gave it to her and let her keep her $150.00... It went to a good home and the excitement on the lady's face (friend of the family) was worth it..."

Good on you for your kindness...

-Plus... doesn't one feel so good when the misery stops?!

Enjoy your 22 Mag... and others!

Thanks Hawkeye...

Appreciate the sentiments...

Seafire, I like the rifle, but not the 17 HMR. I really miss my Volquartsen (actually I miss all my guns), but not the .17 HMR. I was never impressed with the terminal performance, especially cost/benefit. I will buy another Voquartsen, but it will be in 22LR. Lou

Lou,

I agree with you whole heartedly..

however there are still guys who really get offended and feel like you are personally insulting them, when you don't sing praises for the 17HMR...

therefore I think it is the most prima donna or sacred cow round out there...

I'll keep one of my 17 HMRs, but that will be the little NEF Handirifle.... single shots, it doesn't feel that spendy to feed, but then I am not using it out sage rat shooting..

hope you're keeping your head down over there in Afghanistan...

I love my 17, savage, but don't shoot anything bigger than gophers though. Bad terminal ballistics? I've torn the little SOBs apart at 50 yards.

I'm with ya Rustin, that's why I mentioned appropriate sized pests.
I did a little before and after photo op on a gopher smucked with an HMR at about 65ish yards.

Before.



After.



Don't get no deader'n that!
If the price don't break the bank the HMR's about plumb perfect on Bitteroot or Gallatin valley gophers same same. If the conditions are right it'll whack stuff a bit bigger than gophers. This rock chuck got popped at about 135 yards with that Anschutz an his tail barely quivered. One shot, No drama, just dead!



Welcome aboard by the way, I used to hang hat outside of Missoula a bit back in the 70's. Smucked my share of Ravalli county gophers back then when the 10-22 was the Montana state rifle.

Thanks Seafire, good to hear from you.

Rustin, I never said it didn't work, it's just my experience is the terminal performance is not prportionate with the excessive cost of the ammo. I can shoot my 22 LR, 223 and 17 Rem cheaper. The 22 does similar damage out to 50-75 yards. Any further I will use my 223 or 17 Rem. But that's what makes this a great country.

Not too many locals over hear sittin' around the barber shop or bar talking about guns, girls or hunting. Lou

If I am going to shoot p-dogs at 100-125yds the hmr works great. I bought 100 rds at 9.00 a box and when I see it on sale for 10.50 or so I buy it. Thats .
19 to .22 a round. If your buying bullets and not casting, you are fooling your self if you think you can shoot "alot" cheaper that that. If you compare current to current prices on both, just bullets and primers are .17 to .22 without powder and your time. I do have a major stash of sx 50's and 40 and 50 v-max, so it is not like I don't shoot both. I start out with the close ones with the hmr and move up as I move out. They have their place, it is just under 125 yds. Alot of folk's don't reload and those are the ones that really like it for mostly they shoot paper, and most hmr's are quite capable of small groups.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
Thanks Seafire, good to hear from you.

Rustin, I never said it didn't work, it's just my experience is the terminal performance is not proportionate with the excessive cost of the ammo. I can shoot my 22 LR, 223 and 17 Rem cheaper. The 22 does similar damage out to 50-75 yards. Any further I will use my 223 or 17 Rem. But that's what makes this a great country.

Dr Lou I respect your opinions and you certainly have a right to em by all means. I assure you I'm not trying to convince you ya oughta like the HMR it but I do disagree with a couple points in your post that sure don't line up with my experiences.
1st. It's not uncommon at all to whack 300 to 500 gophers or more in a good day rat smackin around here so without blowing wind it's safe to say that over the years I've shot untold thousands of em. At first it was with .22 for the most part using American Eagle HP's by Federal we buy by the case. Each spring the local Cenex has a huge pallet of cases of em stacked up in the middle of the floor for gopher season. Thinning out the gophers around here is a financial necessity if your into agriculture and your choices are firearms or poison and for the most part poison is illegal or governed to the point of being a huge financial burden, besides it's hard on the whole ecosystem and that stinks on ice. With the introduction of the HMR and .17 Mach2 some of those thousands eradicated have been with those rounds. My personal experience is that the HMR is massively more destructive than the .22LR and for that matter so is the diminutive little M2. .22's kill em but HMR's shred em. Lot's of 80 yard crawl offs with the .22, not so much the HMR (We're talking gophers here). The HMR is faster and has a much better BC so it's better in the wind at 100+ yards, significantly. Another big plus for the .17's is the incredible difference in the numbers of ricochets between .22 and HMR, the 17 grain V-Max at it's much faster speed is a lot more frangible and doesn't sing to ya on departing the area anywhere near as much.
2nd. I do load a lot and the only round I can remotely come close to the HMR with for price is the .17 Ackley Hornet or possibly a straight Hornet or K-Hornet. With the .17 Ackley using today's prices with WW cases going let's say 8 firings (probably do better but that's the number I used), 12.5 grains of AA 1680, WSR primers. Not counting die cost and whatnot. I can load 100 .17 Ackleys at approx $24.00 + some change, about the same for a .22 Hornet or K-Hornet. Didn't add freight (used Mid South) so I didn't add freight to the Hornady HMR ammo from them either which they have for $9.96 a box. So I end up with $19.92 on the HMR for a 100 and $24.43 for the .17 Ackley (course a .17 Ackley pushing a 20 grain V-Max at near 3,800fps blows it's doors off but that for another debate).
So not much difference to be sure but enough that on some days when the wind is good and I don't feel like reloading the HMR gets the nod. For that matter the .17 Mach2 on gophers to 135ish or so yards is a real pip and I stocked up on it at $2.99 a box.
As to the .223's or .17 Remington not only are they in a totally different class but at 25 to 27 grains each of powder I can't come close to loading them at HMR prices.
You make valid points Dr. Lou and your opinions belong to you and in my opinion no man can look down his nose at another man's opinion or he don't have a right to have one himself.
Sum of it all is I'm just a small caliber junkie that's drank too much coffee to late at night so I'm having go at the keyboard one finger at a time till I can go to sleep and dream of gopher smuckage.
In the sake of honesty I should probably also mention that in the last number of years when I was looking to the ranks of the gainfully unemployed wistfully I stocked up (way up!) on everything I thought I'd need to finish my shooting days happily even if Hillary or her ilk held sway. Did I mention I bought 10 cases (yes, Cases not bricks) of Hornady HMR when it was just pennies over seven bucks a box? Like I said I bought one of the first run Remington 5MM Mags, besides that CZ HMR is my wife's favorite gopher/p-dog gun (much better that than something with a stock I like ) .

Would you hate this rifle???
Nope I kinda like mine but like you I sure wish I would have stocked up on ammo!
The HMR sure is accurate and fun but its still a rimfire, prairie dogs inside of 300 yards are doable but I've found it does a LOT better job of killing inside of 150 yards

Slowpoke Slim, Please translate.

quote:

Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor

quote:

Originally posted by Mach V:
Would you hate this rifle???
Nope I kinda like mine but like you I sure wish I would have stocked up on ammo!
The HMR sure is accurate and fun but its still a rimfire, prairie dogs inside of 300 yards are doable but I've found it does a LOT better job of killing inside of 150 yards

I agree, on p-dogs which we hunt driving around in the pasture with a rifle out both windows resting on window bags 150 yrds is the end of the Earth (I hate crawl offs, even on rodents) and 135 yrds or less is better. You can sure hit em farther and certainly kill em efficiently, "sometimes" but it's iffy at best and I don't "personally" care for doing it.
On gophers which are about a third to a quarter the size of a p-dog the HMR is consistent killer out to maybe 175 or a little better in my hands,probably better for some. I've read some outrageous distances talked about on the sites but I fear sometimes the internet has a tendency to stretch distances and shrink groups...it's magic!!! . There's a rim fire site out there that while I like the site and a lotta participants are straight up some of the others sure blow a bunch a hot wind, (must be global warming).

SEafire...

I'll call your bluff on this one.

I propose a TRADE.

Straight across, even, steven.

A used brown laminate stocked stainless .22mag Ruger m77/22 KBZ in the same condition as your gun.

Rifles only.

That way I to never see you whine about that 17HMR yours that you are "too impoverished" to feed again..

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
SEafire...

I'll call your bluff on this one.

I propose a TRADE.

Straight across, even, steven.

A used brown laminate stocked stainless .22mag Ruger m77/22 KBZ in the same condition as your gun.

Rifles only.

That way I to never see you whine about that 17HMR yours that you are "too impoverished" to feed again..

Jim,

I have a Ruger 22 Mag...

If you had one in 22 LR, I'd be highly interested...

I have 2 cz 452s one in HMR and one in HM2.I love them.Where I shoot and hunt, ranges are usually short and targets small.A box of 50 rounds last a few outing of being able to head shoot squirrels in a tree at 100 yds distance,a long shot in the woods.
My 11 year old son put 5 shots in a 1" circle at 100yds last year with the mach2.
The hmr will do the same.We'll keep them for awhile.

had a 17hmr for about three months....ended up giving it away......pain in the but to clean,and didnt work much better than my 22mags. not to mention theres only ONE bullet choice...the hornadys.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:

Shoots little bitty groups..

but I always complain about this rifle...

because of the cost to feed it..

17HMR Ruger 77/17 with Weaver 3 x 9 scope..

some of my friends think I am idiot..for not loving this rifle..

some folks really love the way I set up a rifle like this for varmint shooting tho...

it is as stable as you could ever wish for..

I got the idea from a couple of 70 yr old guys who target shoot air rifles twice a month... this is exactly what their set up is..

it sure does work..

I haven’t looked at the price of loaded ammunition for years. Just looking around Midway, the price of 17HMR runs around .26-. 32 cents per round (without shipping costs). Using Midway’s pricing (without shipping of course) for bullet, primer, and powder, I can reload my Swift for .30 cents. No wonder you dislike that little rifle. The price of quality 22WMR isn’t much better.

When the 17 HMR came out I could not imagine what good it could possibly be and never gave a second thought about owning one. I later acquired a heavy bbl. Savage 93 stainless steel rifle for a good price, brand new in the box. I topped it off with a 3x9 Leupold and went to the range with a friend that had the same, and I mean same setup. after two boxes and the best group at around 3 inches at 100yds., we were ready wrap them around a tree. Judcious cleaning and another box of cartridges and they started shoot itty bitty groups (my general experience with stainless bbls). Now, I could not imagine being without one. I have used it on prairie dogs in Wyoming twice and it is great while the centerfire cools. A couple of foxes and several crows later shows me it is very useful. The ammo price is not all that bad considering the convenience, performance and accuracy (I am now getting about 1/2 inch groups at 100yds) Using mine sure changed my mind.

Please explain the advantage of the 17 HMR over a center fire 17 (Besides cost if you don’t reload)to me. I’m not starting a fight here. I’m just wondering what you’re thinking. There is no right or wrong answers to my question. I just wonder.

Mick that's a very reasonable question and as I have a number of .17's I'll give my reasons. We shoot ground squirrels we call gophers around here in large numbers. For this purpose the bigger .17's like the .17 Rem heats up to much and uses too much components for the purpose. What other round does a guy load for where the powder charge frequently weighs almost or as much as the projectile? My .17 Rem load is 24.8 grains of Varget and the 25 grain Berger or V-Max, see what I mean?
The best center fire .17 I load for considering the purpose I mentioned is the .17 Ackley Hornet and while I can load it for about a push $$$ wise with the HMR and it blows the doors off it for performance, sometimes I'd rather just take a few boxes of Rimfire and not worry about keeping track of brass and reloading several hundred rounds every time I go out which is frequently 2 or 3 times a week in the summer (gainfully unemployed and all). That's the main reason for me.
I love the .17's for rat eradication, quiet, few ricochets, see all yor hits tell ya get up to the .17 Rem etc. Mine is the step ladder approach, from the .17 mach2 up to the .17 Rem and all stops in between. Personally I'm of the opinion that unless you are a dedicated fur hunter the .17 MachIV or .17 Fire Ball class are about as big a .17 as is practical (personal opinion for myself only). All that said sometimes I just feel like shooting and calling it good.
Windy answer to a short question, sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Mick that's a very reasonable question and as I have a number of .17's I'll give my reasons. We shoot ground squirrels we call gophers around here in large numbers. For this purpose the bigger .17's like the .17 Rem heats up to much and uses too much components for the purpose. What other round does a guy load for where the powder charge frequently weighs almost or as much as the projectile? My .17 Rem load is 24.8 grains of Varget and the 25 grain Berger or V-Max, see what I mean?
The best center fire .17 I load for considering the purpose I mentioned is the .17 Ackley Hornet and while I can load it for about a push $$$ wise with the HMR and it blows the doors off it for performance, sometimes I'd rather just take a few boxes of Rimfire and not worry about keeping track of brass and reloading several hundred rounds every time I go out which is frequently 2 or 3 times a week in the summer (gainfully unemployed and all). That's the main reason for me.
I love the .17's for rat eradication, quiet, few ricochets, see all yor hits tell ya get up to the .17 Rem etc. Mine is the step ladder approach, from the .17 mach2 up to the .17 Rem and all stops in between. Personally I'm of the opinion that unless you are a dedicated fur hunter the .17 MachIV or .17 Fire Ball class are about as big a .17 as is practical (personal opinion for myself only). All that said sometimes I just feel like shooting and calling it good.
Windy answer to a short question, sorry.

Thank you

I gave the Savage 17HMR I bought to find out what all the fuss was about to the old gent (neighbor) whose land I shot. I goo'ed about a million gophers with it but too decided I didn't like being at the mercy of what's on the shelf at the hardware store.

I replaced it with a CZ in 17 Rem, for which I load Blue Dot and mollied bullets at reasonable velocities. I've killed so many gophers with it I began to have trouble finding any last summer! It also sports a Form 4'd suppressor.

Last summer I worked a pasture with a few large slash piles and a rock wall. I positioned myself somewhat in the middle so no shot was longer than 150 yards. Went 46 for 47 on rock chucks with one deflected shot - clean miss. The load was 11.5 of Blue Dot and an 18 grain mollied Berger MEF at 3675 or so.

Works better'n the HMR and I can load it at home, rather than having to find it retail.

What's not to like?

Mark

Montdoug,

Thanks again for your reply to my question.

I can see the 17 HMR filling a niche for a lot of people. From what I see, your approach to killing rodents in a cost-effective manner is well thought out.

Here on the plains of Colorado most of my prairie dog shooting starts at 150 yards and goes out from there, although I do get bonus shots on dogs under 150 yard, they only account for about ¼ of the dogs I kill. Because of the never-ending wind and distances I shoot, I need something “fast and flat”. I may be wrong but I just don’t see the 17 HMR as being much help to me.

I have a little marlin 17hmr that is accurate and fun to shoot. I cant believe the cost of ammo, luckily I have about 30 boxes that I bought when it was around $8. Once that is gone, that gun will be also Im afraid. Luckily I dont shoot it much so it will probably last a while.

The 17 HMR came on real strong, and was all the rage for awhile here in Oregon. The old timers that were using it started to complain that it would wound way to may sage rats, and they would hobble off into their holes and no doubt die later. What's to like about that? Lot's of the rifles for sale now. Yup, I hate it!

I am aware of several local gunsmiths who work with Thompsons and Encores...

a batch of them have barrels chambered in 17 HMR.. that they have rechambered to 17 Fireball or 17 Ackley Hornet..

Ammo costs vs handloading and getting red mist.. is the reason that they have been telling me...

I have a $109.00 NEF in 17 HMR... that is one that is not too spendy to shoot... I'll be keeping that one...

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
The 17 HMR came on real strong, and was all the rage for awhile here in Oregon. The old timers that were using it started to complain that it would wound way to may sage rats, and they would hobble off into their holes and no doubt die later. What's to like about that? Lot's of the rifles for sale now. Yup, I hate it!

The best thing the 17HMR did was to wake up the ammo manufacturers and force them to make more premium 22WMR ammo. Try to find a used 22MAG. Around here, at least, they are nonexistant and when one finally does show up --- VOOOOM gone!

Plenty of used 17HMRs though...