I know a very little about Ackley cartridges, but do know they are basically improved versions of standard cartridges such as the 223, 243, 30-06, etc.

I really have two questions:

1) I have been told you can shoot standard ammo in an Ackley chambered rifle. Ture? If so what type of accuracy can you expect?

2) Where can I find reloading and measured cartridge and chamber dimensions for these rounds?

My experience is that the standard rounds are generally very accurate. While I've not done a statistical test, I don't think the difference is noticable for the average shooter (I consider myself in this group). Let me say it another way, I've you've worked up a load that HAS to be < .5 MOA then you probably need to use fireformed brass, but my experience is that the "fireforming" load will easily shoot sub-MOA.

Personally, I think that is the beauty of Ackley Improved rounds...that you can fire standard calibers safely. It's sort of like eating your cake and having it too!

JCS - I suggest you get yourself a copy of P. O. Ackley's book "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders." (Vol 1 is the best)

Ackley forgot more about cartridge design than anyone running around today knows. Best of all he was strictly a NO BS sort of guy. He will give you the straight scoop on all the cartridges running around during his time, including his own. And if they were duds, even his, he will tell you.

Plus, you'll just enjoy his book. It will change the way you think about cartridges forever.

Thanks for the information guys!

An improved chamber SHOULD fire the standard version of the same round, but it depends a little on the job the gunsmith did on the rechambering and this should not be taken for granted. If the smith just runs in a reamer without setting back the barrel, you could have trouble.

I am a pretty big fan of AI cases for target/varmint applications. All things being equal, the AI rounds will offer no more accuracy than the standard cartridge they are improved from. They will offer a minor increase in velocity over the standard version, but the greater advantage in my eyes is the reduction in bolt thrust and especially the reduction in brass “flow” and case stretching.

The only disadvantage of the AI rounds is that they can be difficult to feed. This is not insurmountable, but it does make them more work to get set up correctly in a rifle where a quick follow-up shot from a magazine is a requirement.

Really, a lot depends on the gunsmith doing the conversion work.

Fergus

PO Ackely's books are fine, but the data is definitely dated.

In order to work up a load for an AI a chrono is a necessity. Load data is available, but all rifles are different. Increase in velocity is about 10% in most instances.

Advantages to the AI chamberings are the increased brass life, reduced stretch on brass. Also, Ackley seems to think that more powder burns IN the case rather than in the throat, thus making the barrel last a bit longer.

In .223 AI it's necessary to set back the barrel and then rechamber. Any "smith" who does not set back the barrel in this rechambering does not know what he's doing.

I get sub MOA at 100 yds with "cheap" bulk Winchester bullets and "standard" brass that is being fire formed. The gun shoots "standard" .223 Rem. loads just fine.

Once brass is fire formed, keeping track of the cases is more work than standard reloading. If you keep accurate records, and are precise enough in your procedures to keep track of your various lots of brass, then AI is interesting to play with. But it's more work, more record keeping, and developing load data puts you into the "wildcat" realm -- which means you're more or less on your own. Again, a chrono is an absolute necessity.

In the AI that I have the only noticable difference between using factory ammo and the imp. version is a loss in velocity when using the factory ammo. My AI's are a 257 and 7x57. They are fun to play with and when fireforming brass I start at the near max for the factory round and work up from there. I'll let the rifle tell me when its time to back off.

The above advice is good, use the chrony when working up your loads, the Ackley data is a good place to get a FEEL for what your doing. The powders he used have changed slightly so don't expect column by column results. I would approach this with the idea that Ackleys velocities are about max. And don't forget that Ackley was not the least bit bashful in some of his loads. Use caution. Mine is a 7 x 57 Ackley, a Ruger #1, with a 26 inch bbl, shoots 150 grn Sciroccos at 3000 fps @ just under 1/2 moa, shoots almost any fireform load under 1 moa. Kinda tromps all over the 7 Rem Mag with about 20grns less powder. Gene

[ 12-21-2002, 03:42: Message edited by: muffin ]

Fireformed cartridges are a waste of time and money. The only fireformed (FF) cartridge that was worth bothering with is the original K-Hornet by the inventor of this concept, Lysle Kilbourn.

Many speculate that the .22 Hornet chambers were sloppy and with that with the too thin case walls of the standard Hornet accuracy suffered. A well done K Hornet will correct this.

But this is a hobby. People do stuff like climb mountains where in some cases you can drive to the top in a sedan. So go ahead and "improve" away.

One of the ones that makes the least sense is the .223 FF. When you look at a standard .223 you see a sharp shoulder and a straight body thus there is little to FF.

Savage99
Your full of shit about the Ackley

SAVAGE99 IS DIFFINITELY WRONG ABOUT ACKLEYS-I RECHAMBER RIFLES FOR AI EVER CHANCE I GET AND HAVE FOUND GOOD INCREASES IN VELOCITY WHICH MEANS LESS DROP AT RANGE AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ACCURACY LESS THAN PARENT CASE. THE BRASS LIFE IS BETTER AND LESS STRETCH WHICH ALL THE TROUBLE I GO TO GETTING BRASS RIGHT IS A PLUS FOR ME.BARRELS MUST BE SET BACK WHEN RECHAMBERING TO AI AND CHAMBERED ON MINIMUM-ACKLEY DATA MAY BE SLIGHTLY OUTDATED DUE TO POWDERS CHANGING BUT THE BASIC OF WHAT ACKLEY WROTE IS TRUE TODAY.

MBI++++ Gently, gently and Mr Pruett, my ears!!!! don't shout It's interesting though that Mr 99's post about them being a waste of money follows right on the heels of comparing the 7 Mauser AI with the 7 Rem Mag and 20 grains less powder = $$$$, but maybe it's just the 26" bbl and has nothing to do with the improved cartridge!!!

[ 12-21-2002, 03:43: Message edited by: muffin ]

My next Ackley::
http://images.andale.com/f2/129/124/6198627/1039287952032_farley500_2.JPG http://images.andale.com/f2/129/124/6198627/1039287953218_farley500_1.JPG

JGS company ( the reamer compan ) sale a book of print of all the AI chambers , PPG too .
and you can get some on the Clymmer website ( not my favorite reamer company )

shoot a lot of factory ammo in AI chamber can do the smash on AI shoulder hamberbecause headspace is very narrow band ( original shoulder is in contact just on a datum line )

for fireforming I always use a old barrel that I rechamber and headspace to get amatched chamber and doesn t use my good barrel to do fire forming

good shooting

DAN TEC

Obviously Savage99 is not a big fan of Ackley. Sounds to me like he is pulling that information out of his ass. Ackley cartridges are great to play with but can be costly or time consuming if you are shooting a non standard cartridge. I shoot a 6.5-06 Ack. Imp. and I love it. Flat shooting and mild on recoil. Yet, dies were expensive and it takes a long time to work the brass. But overall it is well worth it. Just need to have the time and money for this type of project. Most standard Ackley dies are fairly cheap and shooting standard cases in Ackley give great accuracy (depending on the gun).