I would think it would be kewl to have a hmr in an autoloader, does anyone know how the Remington 597?? is that it, shoots in 17hmr. I think I would like to use one for hunting jacks

CC, So far I have either owned or set up somewhere around 25 different 17HMR's. There has not been a dog in the bunch! I owned a 597 in 17HMR and it would do under 1" at 100 yards consistently! The one I had experienced no problems with feeding. I liked that 597! I sold it to a friend who has 2 boys that are shooting it now and they love it as well as their dad! He says that I should never have tempted him with it as I really started something and he might have to buy 2 more so they all have one! The one I had was the plain jane, synthetic, light barrel model. GHD

Yeah guys every now and then I get the itches to buy just a cool (KEWL?) little gun for the satisfaction of owning such a neat thing!
I have had the itches for, of all things, a Winchester lever action rifle in 17 HMR!
The one I like the looks and feel of so much is the model with the pistol grip butt stock, longer barrel (24"?) and the nice figured and checkered wood.
It is very clear in my mind that I have been admiring said Rifles in various gun stores in Bend, Oregon, Missoula, Montana and Spokane, Washington when folks walked up and bought these 3 Rifles right out from under me during the past 18 months!
He who snoozes, looses!
Anyway I have not seen the Remington 597 semi-auto in the field but I had occassion to shoot a Volqhuartsen semi-auto in 17 HMR this past spring that a friend from the east coast brought out to Montana. This thing of beauty was fully tricked out and had a high power Leupold variable on it - 6.5x20 as I recall! I simply could not miss with it! I felt bad shooting it as much as I did as the owner had travelled so far with it and had obviously painstakingly put it together as it was obviously his very spendy and long planned project Rifle! I did use my own ammo though as I recall. I must have put 50 rounds through it on each of three days we had it out! It was Ground Squirrel harvesting magic!
The first moment I could I got onto my computer and looked up the Volqhuartsen site and this particular Rifle. I immediately went into "sticker shock"!
I am a great admirer of the Ruger 10/22 design and how fun they are to Hunt Varmints with. I own three of these 10/22's now. But that Volqhuartsen in 17 HMR was just a thing of beauty! All stainless steel (as I recall) and it had a wonderful trigger on it!
If I had to decide on putting moola out for the Winchester lever action in 17 HMR ($329.00 as I recall) or for a Volqhuartsen in 17 HMR ($800.00+ as I recall) - I would be hard pressed to decide which way to go.
Most all my Hunting buddies went with the bolt action models of 17 HMR's and I have not as yet Hunted beside any semi-auto 17 HMR's (besides the wonderful Volqhuartsen) so I have no first hand experience with the Ruger 10/17 HMR or the Remington 597 in 17 HMR.
I do though loudly and often praise the accuracy and lethality of the 17 HMR.
Can't wait for spring.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

FWIW, the Ruger 10/17 only exists in the minds of Ruger and on paper, no one at RFC has seen a real Ruger 10/17, only converted 10/22mags...
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75268&highlight=ruger+10%2F17

A few points discussed here..

1) The Remington 597 has about the best rep going for an under $500 17HMR semi auto..

2) The Ruger 10/17 has been promised now for over two years.
They are currently NOT even listed on Ruger's web sight.
Me thinks the 10/17 (and the Gold Label SxS) are going to go the way of the Ruger XGI .308 M14 copy- stuff they promise but, for what ever reasons, will never really make..

3) I am glad I am not the only person that gets 17s set up and has friends buy them off of me! At last count I have owned 5 different Marlin 17HMRs and they ALL shot superbly!The firswt four are now owned by friends who shot them and then HAD to have them!

Perhaps God has rewarded me for my "good works" as this last Marlin 17VS(which I am KEEPING) is the best shooter of them all-.5 MOA!!!!

sharpsman, The Marlins are my choice for the little bolt 17's! Savage Model 93's are also superb! Triggers on either leave a bit to be desired but that can be fixed with the RifleBasix aftermarkets(or some good gunsmithing!!) and now the Marlin "900" or whatever it is called on the Marlins.....hence the name change from 17VS to "917VS".....they are much beter! The CZ's are quality little specimens too! The NEF's have even proven to be pretty darn good!!!! The SAVAGE STRIKERS with 10" barrels are absolutely fun guns too!!!
Now as far as the .204 goes, it's a whole different beast, in another catagory altogether but it still pains me to call it the ".204 Ruger"!!! Wish it had been the ".204 Hornady", .204 Remington, .204anything but Ruger!!!!!! So on my posts it will always be known only as the .204!!!! But it is one that will be getting converts!!! GHD

Wrong Target & Sharpsman: What I was referring to was the re-barreled (or switch barreled) 10/22 Magnums. I have not seen any of these in action in the Varmint fields as yet but I see people talking about them in forums like this.
And yes my 2,004 Ruger catalog (page 21) shows the Ruger 10/17 Rifle and designates it as the Ruger 10/17 BBR. Iagain have not seen any of these either in the fields so far.
17 HMR fever!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There's another difference tween the 17V(s) and the 917V(s) in that the 917 series are drilled and tapped for scopes and come with weaver style bases in addition to having the 3/8" dovetail. That said, some of the last production 17 series were D&Td also but still had the old style trigger to throw a bit of confusion in the mix. The T-900 trigger isn't much better than the old style, but the safety that comes with it is a big improvement

I've got the Savage 93 since it's the only one made for lefthanded people and it is a blast to shoot ground squirrels with. I'm just glad it has the 5 shot clip, as it could get way too expensive unloading 10 round semi auto magazines!

fjold, I got one of the "lefty" versions for "GeorgeS" from this forum and sent it to him but didn't test that one......I think he's rung it out pretty good though!! Is that lady in your signature a "righty" or a "lefty"??? She'd probably work ok either way or right up the middle!! GHD

I've had two 597's in 17HMR.

The first had a problem cocking the hamer on the second shot after bolt hold open. Sent it back to Remington, they worked on it and returned it. Problem persisted and Remington bought the gun back.

Replaced rifle has worked fine with no problems.

Both were 1" groups at 100 yards.

I used the first one on Jacks last winter out in the west desert. The Hornady bullets were very explosive on the jacks. Leaving large holes with lots of blood across the snow.

This weekend I'm going to try the Hornady 20grain bullets.

Gophershooter: I have simply given up! If you may recall I bought a S&W stainless long barreled revolver in 17 HMR nearly one year ago now (December 2,003). The first pistol was sent out of the factory with no rifling in the barrel what so ever - just a bored undersize hole. So there was no room for the 17 caliber slugs to swage into and the resulting blowback and shrapnel luckily only stung my face - thank God for shooting glasses!
The bullets tumbled through the targets at 25 and 7 yards and made beautiful profiles of keyholing bullets! Believe it or not the tumbling keyholing bullets made SMALLER groups than the replacement pistol that S&W sent me!!!!
The replacement pistol that I got (to late for most of the Ground Squirrel season) would not shoot ANY 17 HMR ammo into groups less than 8 inches at 25 yards!!!!
Like I said the unrifled pistol shot smaller groups than the replacement pistol that is Rifled!
I have a 4x scope on the new pistol and it is tried and true. I also fired it without a scope and still no semblance what so ever of accuracy! At least it did not spit schrapnel back at me!
I gave up on the dang thing once I had tried EVERY brand of 17 HMR ammo and all gave horible results!
I did speak to a S&W factory rep at a function here in Montana and he said "send it back"! "That level of accuracy was simply unacceptable".
I have a whole safe full of S&W revolvers and all are VERY accurate. I have been buying S&W pistols for 36 years now (with only one brief respit of purchasing!) and never had even the slightest of problems with any of them! And I carried them for 29 years professionally - again nary a problem!
I simply have to get the time to take it back to the nice folks in Bozeman (110 miles each way!) where I bought it and get the yellow form 4473 from them and send the pistol back to the S&W folks for analysis.
I only shot it from my Hart bench rest supported with sand bags and single action. 8" six shot groups with no two bullets ANYWHERE close to the others just is not cutting it.
Maybe I should stick to Remingtons! I have the best of luck with them!
Maybe I am on an "unlucky streak"?
More later.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
PS: Oh yeah I had heard several rave reports on the S&W revolvers in 17 HMR regarding their accuracy! So I am in no way condemning the S&W line for any lack of accuracy! I know how accurate their revolvers usually are!
I have just had a couple of duds come my way! In a row!

whats the diffrence in the .17HMR and the .17 mach 2?

VG,

My cheapest rifle, a $179 Marlin 917V, is one of my most accurate. It shoots 17 HMR with 3/8" group sizes at 100 yards. I did spent $60 on the Rifle Basix trigger as it made it a bit better.

I just picked up a Ruger 10/22 Magnum very cheap because the barrel had a blemish. I didn't care because I am going to order a Lilja 17 HMR barrel and a Clark trigger for it. It should kick some major ass.

I've introduced some old fartz to the 17 HMR and they are having a blast with it. These were hard core shooters who thought they've seen everything and wouldn't take advice from a young whipper snapper like me. They keep talling me they can't beleive how fun and accurate that round is.

The only rifles I own more accurate than the Marlins are my two Cooper's and they were 6 times the price and use more expensive amoo (Match Grade 22 LR and 17 Mach IV Wildcat).

Regards.
Kory

PS. I just started a custom 20 VarTarg or Tactical 20. Not sure what to chamber it for. My guess is 20 VarTarg as this is going to be a target rifle and I think the VarTarg has an edge on the Tac-20 up to around 300 yards. Any opinions on this?

Dale;How did your S&W 17hmr ordeal turn out I have got the fever and I am considering the purchase of one.w/regards

Sharpsman: I simply have to nominate your post that I am replying to as the "POSTING OF THE MONTH" here on the A.R. Forum!

None of the others I have seen are more intelligent, analytical and well written!

Kudos to you and an imaginary "atta boy" plaque are sent from me to you for your great posting!

Your well thought out analysis and retelling of your observations has impressed me very much!

Thank you for the great posting and in explaining so succinctly what I was obviously unable to relay!

Let me add some first hand experiences here that really impressed me in my two years+ now of shooting the 17 HMR at Varmints. First of all I have only killed two Coyotes with the 17 HMR but both were one shot kills right at 100 yards! One was called in and head shot. An instant kill and the other was a drive by lung shot somewhat quick kill! That Coyote spun around several times after the lung shot and went down where it was circling! I have as yet to shoot a Fox with the 17 HMR but that will soon be rectified! Another amazingly impressive kill I made with the 17 HMR is also worth retelling. I was shooting Ground Squirrels from an elevated perch off of the tailgate of my VarmintMobile and was using the roof of the truck canopy as a bench rest! A Badger appeared at the rim of his den and was lying in the den mouth looking directly at me! It was obviously a large Badger and I decided to place the crosshairs on his throat area and went into speed mode to settle down and get the shot off! I had been shooting for some time in that spot and was worried the Badger would dart back down his hole when he saw movement or identified danger. I did not take time to range the distance and was able to ignore the modest crosswind that was blowing! Amen for the 17 HMR! Anyway I got off a rapid shot from my sand bags and the tiny bullet struck the Badger squarely in the Adams Apple area! That large boar Badger did not move from the spot it was struck! It simply instantly fell dead! Now, I have shot a LOT of Badgers with a lot of different cartridges and be advised they seldom die in their tracks! Badgers can pack away a lot of lead - so to speak! I watched that Badger in my scope incredulous that one shot from the 17 HMR could be so effective on the beast!

I grapped my pack with my camera inside and ran to the spot where the Badger still lay on the mouth of its den. I photographed it and then used my Leica Laser rangefinder to read back to the front grill of the VarmintMobile. The range was 172 yards and I added the length of the Dodge diesel extended cab back to where I guessed the muzzle was and came up with a 175 yard ONE SHOT rimfire kill on this large Boar Badger! My partner Jack was also most impressed with this feat! We went back to the VarmintMobile and began shooting more of the hoardes of Ground Squirrels. It was not 20 minutes later when my partner who was firing from one of his patented swivel shooting benches yelled out "I got a Badger"! I had been so intent on plinking Ground Squirrels I had not seen his Badger come up out of the ground and waddle a ways until he struck it with a single round from his 17 HMR! We proceeded forth again and took photos and lasered back to the VarmintMobile. Again another one shot kill at 170 yards! Amazing as it was to me this Badger was also a male and had been denned up in the prime Ground Squirrel habitat not 25 yards from where my Badger had exited the ground!

I had obviously over the last 40 years of Hunting Badgers "assumed" that they were very territorial as I had never seen two male Badgers in the same area ever before. I think I was just assuming that their sparse population was due to some territorial instinct. Maybe I was all wet in that assumption as these guys lived right next to each other.

In additon to the Badger and the two Coyotes I have taken large Rock Chucks, Snowshoe Hares, Porcupine, Jack Rabbits, feral cats, Skunks, Prairie Dogs, Cottontail Rabbits, Wild Turkeys and various other Varmints with the 17 HMR. I have been most impressed with the lethality of the 17 HMR.

Some debate my contention but I have not been swayed from it one bit - the 17 HMR is much more lethal than ANY other rimfire cartridge I have ever used! This especially includes the 22 Magnum that I have been fooling around with for 40 years! 2 1/2 years now with the 17 HMR and I am CONVINCED of its superior lethality which is only further enhanced by its superior accuracy and significantly flatter trajectory and less wind drift!

I aim to try the new 20 gr. HMR rounds soon myself.

Long live the 17 HMR!

Yes the rotational factor certainly must figure in to the enhanced lethality of the 17 HMR bullets!

And thanks again for pointing it out so well.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

I don't consider myself TOO old(42) but nearly thirty years as a shooter does mean I have seen a lot of things...

I messed around with .22mags for many, many years. I never was happy enough with the range increase in terms of accuracy and trajectory over a good .22LR to believe they were worth the extra$$$.

Then along comes the 17HMR.I too,scoffed at first at the round's little 17g bullet-BUT once I got to shoot one from 100 to 200 yards,I saw the light!The 17HMR is simply the KING of the modern rimfire rifles.It is an amazing little round!

Long Live the 17HMR!!

Sharpsman: I also was a blissful (ignorant) devotee to the tortures that ALWAYS followed once I got me a NEW and BETTER 22 Magnum! I know I have owned about 20 of them! None were worth a hoot and I am including the Anschutz in that flock of flakey firearms! I will say this I have heard some very good first hand reports of the CZ 22 Magnums lately but the die has been cast for me since I first coddled my Ruger 77/17V!
I have been greatly impressed in every way possible with my 17 HMR. And yes, I had trepadations galore when I fell for the looks of the Ruger shiny stainless heavy barreled Varmint model with the laminated stock! After all it was still a Ruger! Not only is this Ruger accurate but I have toted and bounced it around over hill and dale and not really babied it - and it holds P.O.I. perfectly well!
My new "convert" to the 17's is gonna go with the heavy barreled Ruger himself and I am just hoping that his rig will perform as well as mine has!
I was even pleasantly surprised with the Rugers trigger. As I recall my trigger gauge tripped the original factory trigger consistently at a crisp but not real light 4 pounds 0 ounces!
Yeah count me among those old coots that are really entertained and impressed with the 17 HMR!
It is head and shoulders above the 22 magnum in every regard
(yeah I know the 22 magnum with certain loads has more foot/pounds of energy). But the 17 HMR is much more lethal on medium and small Varmints and the increased accuracy and much flatter trajectory (along with much less wind drift!) gives the significant nod to the new 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG,



I have worked enough with the 17HMR that I have gathered a theory on the Killing power /terminal performance of the 17HMR round with the 17g Vmax loads.



First, let me preface this by saying I think anyone who has used a 17HMR would say that it is BEST used on small game varmints of the size of Jack Rabbits/Chucks on down..



Having said that- after seeing the 17HMrs performance on that class of game,I feel that with the 17g Vmax loadings it gets BETTER from 100 to about 200 yards!It's performance on game reminds me of minature version of accurate,fast expanding slugs in a high velocity deer round.Sort of like a screamer 165g BTSP load in a .300mag for 500 yard shots at deer-Up close,you need to keep those bullets away from shoulder shots(in the neck or lungs),but out 'yonder they kill like lightning anywhere in the vitals once velocites have slowed a bit..



Follow me here..



Bullet RPMs,impact velocities and VERY light bullet construction make the 17HMR actually perform BETTER as the Range increases up to about 200n yards on game up to about 15lbs. I believe it is mainly due to RPMs..



The 17HMR has nearly TWICE the RPMS on the bullet as ANY .22mag round. Even at ranges when the bullet velocity has slowed, the higher RPMs SILLL allow the little 17HMR bullet to dump it's energy inside the animals better than one would think.I feel this would NOT apply to the heavier constructed TNT and XTP slugs but to the Vmaxes. The only down side to this is the fact that the little Vmax bullets are a little eratic on killing body shots on the larger vermin at closer ranges(inside 100 yards).



I have purposely put 17g bullets RIGHT ON the shoulder of some of the big Black tailed Jacks we have here in Western Kansas and at 50-100 yards,the bullets don't pentrate that well,yes -they killed but usually the bullet simply explodes on the near shoulder with only a bit of schrapnel making it to the vitals-sort of like a lightly constructed(yet very accurate) deer type bullet will in a .300magnum caliber when put on a deers shoulder at close range.



However, when the same sized aniamls were shot at 150-200 yards PLUS they died faster even with BODY HITS! Why? I believe it is because BOTH impact velocites AND RPMS have slowed to the extent that the little Vmax slug, while still expanding VERY fast,can do so in a bit more controlled and consistent manner.Even at 200 yards,the 17HMR has only about 80fts of energy left-about like a .22HVHP round at 80 yards- YET the little 17g slug is still going about 1,300FPS at that range and a about THREE TIMES the RPMS of a .22LR slug.It simply TRANSFERS that energy on appropriate sized animals better even at that range so that it STILL kills well.I have seem quarter sized exit holes on large adult Prairie Dogs thumped through the midsection with the 17HMR out to 225 yards.When the 17g slug hits them in the right spot, they die QUICK!



I have litterally seen jack rabbits hit with raking body shots at 200 yards plus with a 17HMR that folded up immediately.Besides my own experinces with Western Jack rabbits, I have friends and familly back east who hunt G'Hogs a lot with the 17HMR and I have never heard of a VERIFIED instance where a 'chuck solidly hit in the shoulders or lungs with a 17HMR vmax at less than 200 yards,did not die on the spot!



Like I said,it's the RPMS..And if I had not SEEN it with my own eyes over the last 2years shooting the 17HMR,I would not have believed it!!



I think Coyotes are the upper limit for the 17HMR for sure but I want to pop a few in the lungs with the 17g Hornrady loads at 100 to 150 yards and see how they kill..

The Cooper LVT 17 HMR rifle with a Burris 4.5-14 scope I got in March of 03 has turned out to be my best prairie dog rifle for shots out to 180 or so yards. Per my talley sheet over 2,000 P dogs were shot with the 17 Gr, V-MAX bullet. I have a rifle in about every 224 cal. centerfire case but they jest set in the gun case since I got the 17 HMR for P dog shooting. I,m trying out a Ruger Target rifle in the 204 Ruger round that shoots 3/4 inch five shot groups at 100 Yds.with Hornady 32 Gr.V-MAX factory ammo. I,ll give it a try on P dogs out from 180 Yds.and out to 350 Yds. I,v goin out 47 times this year after P Dogs. The temp. is about zero now with 11 inches of snow on the ground --Got to get out now and try the 204 Ruger on Yotes.

The 17hmr you get around 2550fps the mach2 2000fps

Actually in most guns,the 17HMRs velocities with 17g loads is more like a Mach 2.6 to 2.7!!