Kory: That particular Varmint did not get lasered.

But I am so happy with my present laser ranger I will expound on it a bit if I may?

I am presently using the Leica Model 800 (the model # corresponds to its ability to laser range to 800 meters or 880 yards by the way). I like this laser ranger as it is small, lightweight VERY repeatable and I have personally checked it with a 100' steel tape to 800 yards! It is well within 1% accuracy wise at that range by the way - at least according to the 100' steel tape we used to set the range test up with. As I recall our steel tape measurement and the laser measurement varied by only 3 or 4 yards!

That Prairie Dog was just under 300 yards as I guesstimated and I lifted him into the air with GUSTO! The flatshooting 204 Ruger cartridge and my sight-in allowed me to hold on fur! It went like this: POW - SPLATT - SPIRAL!

Yes I have also spoken with several V24 users who are very happy with those Weavers! I have never owned one of them but I do own 3 Weaver V-16's (variable 4 to 16x's) as well as a Weaver KT-15 (straight 15x) and I am VERY pleased with them (their prices and their performance!).

The Leupold 8.5x25x40mm is no longer available from Leupold as they dropped it for the 8.5x25x50mm with side focus. I have used one of these at the range and in the field on friends Rifles and these are SENSATIONAL scopes for Varminting but, they are expensive!

The last two high end variables I have bought in the last few months have been - used, Sightron 6x24's! I got great deals on them and they have performed well in the field for me as well as at the range! The very top end of these Sightron scopes power range (22x - 24x) does begin to darken somewhat though. Not so with my 8.5x25x40mm Leupolds! I can live with the slight darkening image of the Sightrons at top powers though.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

Thanks for the update. No wonder I could not find your scope in the catalog anymore. I think I was looking through and old brochure.

I have the Leica 1200 Laser Range finer and really like it. I was set to buy the Nikon 600, until the sales person at Scheel's said "you gotta check out the Leica before you make a decision". Not only is the optics A LOT brighter, but they use LED's for the range reading and not LCD like the nikon so it is much easier to see under poor light conditions. Early Leica's had the problem in which the LED "splatterred" and was blurry, but my unit does not. I actually wanted to 800 and not the 1200, but I found one like new on ebay. Put a bid thinking I won't win and I did win! Hey, why am I telling you this, you already own a Leica?? :-)

Anyway, I have a fantasy of being able to compete in the 1000 yard benchrest one day, so I'm glad I bought it!

Kory

John Bartels: How about the fine NightForce scopes? They used to be made in Australia (I think) and I have used my friends NightForce's in the field and at the range. I was impressed with them but they are very expensive over here.
Are they any cheaper in Australia?
Anymore I actively seek out better quality used (pre-owned) scopes. I save money and tax on them and I have been lucky and not bought any lemons as yet.
Yeah the price of scopes anymore has virtually EVERY one of my Hunting and shooting buddies in an ongoing snit!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I just returned from a 5 day combination Varmint/Turkey Hunt and "Antelope Hunting spot" begging tour of eastern and central Montana.
I literally begged every rancher I could find home from the junture of the Yellowstone and Missouri Rivers to the intersection of South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming to the great bend of the Musselshell River. All to no avail! My begging (and I am not exagerating here) fell on deaf ears! I will have to wait for two days after the October 10th Antelope opener to get out and get after the "stink goats" on the high plains this year!
Antelope Hunting is getting popular again it seems.
The high light of the trip though was the several great days of up at dawn to bed at dark Game, Game Bird and Varmint spotting.
I could have shot about 150 different Turkeys during our travels but I am set on taking TWO big Gobblers this fall or nothing at all here in Montana. I have plans for a wall mount of the wings, beard and fantail as well as the bigger chunks of fine tasting Turkey meat!
I had along only two Varmint Rifles for this trip and one of them was my new Remington 700 VLS in 204 Ruger caliber. It is fitted with the wonderful Leupold 8.5x25x40mm variable scope.
Which brings me to the main point I am intent on discussing with anyone who cares to participate. The high power of the Leupold variable came in handy on several occassions for me. One instance had my spotter using my Nikon 20x spotting scope on a window mount while spotting for me in a remote Prairie Dog Town. He spotted "two" Prairie Dogs on a light colored mound way out there. I trained the 25x Leupold variable on the mound in question and found that the "two" Priaire Dogs in fact was one Prairie Dog lying prone beside a thick "cow pie" atop the rim of his mound! The cow pie was the same size and looked surprisingly like a Prairie Dog! I settled the Du-Plex crosshairs on the real Prairie Dog and took him out. The 204 is real impressive in a Dog Town!
I am sold!
And again I respectfully take umbrage with those folks that decry the use of lots of scope power in Prairie Dog towns and other Colony Varmint applications. I firmly believe the more scope power one uses in Colony Varminting the higher ones success ratios will be. I base this on 4 decades (plus) of Colony Varmint Hunting!
I have used on many many occassions a pair of my Varminters that are equipped with 36X straight power scopes and they work splendidly (under most Colony Varmint conditions) at the ranges I like to shoot (200 yards to just under 600 yards!).
The higher powered variables of course add more versatility to a particular Varmint Rifle but for specific application the 36x scopes really let you dial them in!
What a trip though! All my favorite valleys, buttes and mountain ranges were traversed. New people met, wonderful rocks and fossils collected as well as amazing animal antics and observations!
Just a partial list of animal wonders we saw was Rattlesnakes sunning themselves in 93 degree heat and a B&C Trophy Whitetail feeding in a cornfield as a sleet storm approached (if you don't like the weather in Montana just wait 15 minutes and it will change!). Other sightings of note were Sage Grouse, another albino Turkey (second seen in two years!), trophy Mule Deer, a 16"+ Antlope Buck, Coyotes, Fox, Badger, Sandhill Cranes, a Peregrine Falcon, Buzzards, Eagles, Hawks, Pheasants, Sharptails, Hungarian Partridge and every kind of song bird Montana has to offer.
The Antelope were in full rut mode and they streaked across the high plains virtually non-stop during our whole trip! I felt sorry for the battling bucks as a couple of our days were very warm (up to 93 degrees!).
What a trip!
I would like to hear others views on the use of the higher power scopes (20x +) for Colony Varminting. I seem to get happier and happier every year with them and wonder at folks who claim anything over 12x or 14x or 16x is "to much" or "wasted" for Prairie Dogs or other Colony Varminting uses!
Long live the "high plains" and the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

Did you laser the dog you hit? I'm curious how far it was. I'm looking at high power scopes for my 17 Mach IV and I really like the Leupold that you selected, even though it is fairly expensive. I've also heard good things about the Weaver V24, but have never had a chance to look through one, much less a side-by-side compare of the Leupold. I'm a firm believer is buying the best scope you can afford.

Regards,
Kory

VG, well, I guess I am the scorn of many doggers as well as I also like the HM scopes . I have a Burris 8-32x44 for the big boy and, yes I dare say , a Tasco 6-24x42 on the 22-250. Just bought a ruger number 1 in 223 that will have an old Tasco 6-18x42 on it for a while. It seems to have weathered the storm over the years very well. I'm going to wait for the remington XR-100 to come out for the 204, probably with another Burris on it. And yes it will be a 6-18 or bigger scope on it. Sure is fun getting up close and personal when the bullet meets the bone.

Welcome here jb!! And VG, I agree on the high powered optics!! My .204 wears a 6.5-20 Nikon Monarch and even on 20X, hits are still observed!! close up and in RED!!! ask my daughter Sarah(Miss GHD)!!! Back in the 70's the original REDFIELDS were good quality scopes. I had 3 of their 6x18's on various rifles and they served me well for a long, long time!!! There weren't many HM scopes available back then unless you opted for the Redfield 3200's, 6400's, UNERTLS or leupold BR's. The other scope that is available now that I am fond of(except for those darn little gold numbers on the turrets!!) is the 6x24 Bushnell Elite 4200. Clarity, sharpness, repeatability, affordable!!! What else can you ask for? Now for the probably a bit overkill on GHD rifles.....the 8.5-32 PENTAX LIGHTSEEKER on the 25-06 I built last year!!! With mil-dots. Probably a bit much!!! The Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 would do well on that one!!! As I get older, my close up vision sucks!! BUT I LIKE TO SEE STUFF A LONG WAYS OFF!!!! GHD

Interesting reading. I'm just going through the decision process on a new scope, and have got it down to a toss up between the Leupold Mark 4 in either 8.5-25*50 or 6.5-20*50. My preference is probably for the larger of the two, if only because we already have a VX-III in 6.5-20. It's a big and expensive lump of glass, but it will be installed on a 22/250 VSSF (which is planned to become a fast twist 243 as soon as I toast my current 243).
Just have to get over the crying at the price.....

VG, I'm in the east-central part of Kansas just south of Kansas City. I got into pd shooting about four years ago and was hooked for life. Two of us took about 200 rounds each and one rifle. Had a lot of fun for a couple of hours, not near enough ammo or rifles. Needless to say , I started to reload that winter. There are three of us now that go out a couple of times each year and all of us have HM scopes. With out a doubt, we have gotten more hits because of them. We usually will spot for the shooter, each of us taking turns. The spotting scope does not get much use until someone needs a break. As for the 204, I bought one for an Encore in the 15 inch barrel with a burris 3x9 EER scope. One word pretty well sums it up...WOW! Thought about getting a 26 inch barrel for it but after seeing the XR-100, I think I can wait. Hopefully the brass will be easier to get by then.

Jbhewitt: First of all - welcome to the AR site and to the Varminting thread! I hope you enjoy this venue as much as I do!
If I may dare to repeat - I am sure the high top ends of the variable scopes I prefer, adds to my total number of hits at the end of each day in the Colony Varmint fields!
I had a chance at a Burris 8x32 variable a year or so ago at a Gun Show in Spokane, Washington. I wish I had made my play on it sooner as it sold out from under me.
Live and learn.
I saw the pictures of the XR-100 at a recent Gun Nut event here in Montana and by coincidence I saw a limited run Remington bolt action 700 with the near exact copy of the thumbhole, laminated XR-100 stock on it. I really liked it.
I could not wait though - I had to have my 204's like NOW! I am glad I jumped on them. They will be fully ready to go next spring for Rock Chucks, Ground Squirrels and Prairie Dogs! And during this late fall and winter I plan on bagging a bunch of Coyotes and a couple of Fox with my 204's also!
What part of the world do you hail from? I am here in SW Montana near Dillon.
Again good to hear from your new voice!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have been using a 8.5-25 LRT Leupold for 3 years now on rabbits in NZ and am 90% happy. I find these high magnification variable scopes run best at about "3/4 throttle" so most of the time use mine between 16 and 20 power where the best image seems to occur.
last year I was watching a rabbit scratch his ear with the back leg whilst sitting in a patch of shade at a lasered 690yds. A friend with me had a 3.5-10 Leupold set at 10 showed an indeterminable "lump" on viewing the same rabbit.
i could not figure why he could not see this rabbit until I looked through his scope.
The first thing he did on returning from that shoot was to mount a 6.5-20 LRT!
The major drawback with these scopes is narrow depth of field at high power. With varmint shooting offering many varied range targets at a given stand I find I am constantly focussing the scope.
It is difficult in field positions to support the rifle and adjust the side focus whilst maintaining the target in the sight picture. Being right handed it would have been much easier to adjust these side focus scopes if the knob were on the right hand side of the scope. I asked Leupold if they could mirror reverse the windage/focus knobs but apparently it is not possible. Interestingly they said I was not the first to ask this question!

APB: Thanks for the great posting and welcome to the AR Forum and this Varminting thread!

What is causing you to go 3/4 throttle with your Leuopold 8.5x25? Is it heat distortion? Or some other reason like maybe an internal quality of the Leupold? I have 3 of the old fashioned (no longer made) Leupold 8.5x25x40mm A.O. scopes. I really like these scopes and actively seek out used ones to bid on!

You are right the 8.5x25's have some limitations in addition to the smaller "depth of field" focus they have a smaller field of view at 25X than say a straight 25X scope does! For that matter the lower end 8.5X has a narrower field of view than a straight 8X scope does also. I have learned to live with these attributes of the 8.5x25's I own. About the only thing I do not try with these scopes is night Hunting/spotting of Varmints. Luckily I have many other Varminters that fill in here as the narrower field of view of the 8.5x25's is most hampering (noticeable) at night when trying to find a moving Varmints eyes in undulating terrain in a red light!

I have done it but its tougher to do (noticeably so!) than even with one of my many 6.5x20 Leupolds! My trick at night to using the 8.5x25's and the 6.5x20's is to align the BARREL with the incoming eyes and then switch over to the scopes sight picture! If eyes are not immediately seen then I go back to the barrel alignment and try that again until successfully getting eyes in the scope.

When I Hunt Colony Varmints and am afield I almost always use full power for my variable equipped Varmint Rifles (this is most of them by the way!).

I handle the depth of field (in focus) by first aligning the Colony Varmint in the field of view and if need be then I tweek the Adjustable Objective (I do not have any side focus scopes of my own as yet) to clear the image. I have been know to shoot a Varmint or two when not in complete focus - as in when the Varmints are popping up at varied ranges and the shooting is hot and heavy.

Just three hours ago I was on our home made 1,000 yard range and I was sight verifying my Antelope Rifle as that season opens this Sunday. I had occassion to view our target board at all ranges out to 1,000 yards. We were shooting early in the morning on purpose to avoid the mirage and heat distortion. I did not shoot at 1,000 yards but did have a fine focus at that range!

As an aside I could hardly keep my mind on the spotting and shooting as Bull Elk were bugling in 3 directions from our range! The still air allowed their bugles to be heard from more than a mile away! My partner has bow Hunted Elk for the past 4 weeks straight and had lots of close encounters with Bulls during that time. The Elk/Deer Rifle season does not open for 3 weeks! Anyway he came out of the wilderness to catch up on family chores and sight in his Antelope/Elk Rifle and will be heading back into the mountains for more archery Elk Hunting tomorrow. He could barely hold still as the Bulls bugled around us! Most of the ground the Bulls were on this morning surrounding our home made range is private and we only saw one Bull during our shoot! Funny the shooting did not even slow them up one bit! My partner was shooting a custom 338/378 Weatherby (with muzzle break!) and to say it is profanely loud is an amazing understatement!

Anyway I shot a fine group with my Remington 700 Sendero in 270 Winchester caliber with Leupold 8.5x25 scope and did so at full 25X!

I am interested in hearing why you shoot at the slightly lower powers.

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy
Thanks for the welcome!
I have thought about your query over my running at 16-20 most times on my 8.5-25LRT and have have come up with 3 reasons.
1. The overall image quality is just not as good [mainly clarity issues but to some degree colour rendition also] at 25x compared to the 16-20x range.
Note that I also believe my 8.5-25 set at 20x appears to my eyes to outperform a 6.5-20 LRT [same generation 30mm bodies with 50mm objectives] set at its maximum of 20x.
2.Distortion at the edge of the image is very noticeable at the maximum power compared to "3/4 throttle" settings.
3. At maximum power the depth of field situation is much more ctitical than at the lower powers. At 110 yds for example on 25x the depth of field would seem to be no more than 3 feet.Thus you can see why I previously commented about continuously refocussing - even at say 400yds the depth of focus is only about 4 yds at 25x!

Obviously depending on weather etc mirage is the usual reason for winding a high magnification down.

Your "range" story had its intended affect - I am jealous that you have a 1000yd range so handy no doubt in picturesque country complete with natural "music"!