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| The old tang safety M77's in swift shot well,because of the douglas barrels. The new ones are no where near as good. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 | 
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The old tang safety M77's in swift shot well,because of the douglas barrels. The new ones are no where near as good.
Mine were circa 1973-1976. These were Wilson barrels-- chambering too.
My last varmint wt Swift went into the .1's for five rds-- one case method.. ideal conditions per wind etc. Did this when I could hold it admittedly.
The loading? 4320 at 38 some grs with BR 2-- Norma brass using the Lee target model loading system-- as said shooten otta one case. Canjar trigger, polished bore, bedded by me and a 16x Redfield variable. .176 throat and Sierra 52 gr HPBT Match bullets seated just to touch sans an mark left. Orienting the case the same each shot... Sold that gun for the price of a new sporter Ruger in Swift-- of course, and enough cash to shooten it for a thousand of rds.. back then.
I enjoyed that gun as much as any I've owned. Thinking of a new one...
.1's isn't a misprint either. Guy I sold it too did same, hence the wad of cash for it. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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| I understand Ruger's really bad, out sourced barrels stopped when they started making their own about the time they came out with the Mk.II. The latest ones are reported to be quite good.
I'm considering a Swift in a MkII Sporter. E |
| | | Posts: 1022 | Location: Placerville,CA,USA | Registered: 28 May 2002 |
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| For a long time the major problem with Ruger was the barrels. They had a succession of people making
them, and it was really hit or miss. You'd get one guy saying his was a tack driver, while the next guy
was screaming robbery. My understanding is that Ruger now makes their own barrels, but not owning
one I can't say if that's good or bad. The problem with the barrels frightened me off a long time ago.
Best wishes.
Cal - Montreal |
| | | Posts: 1866 | Location: Montreal, Canada | Registered: 01 May 2003 |
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For a long time the major problem with Ruger was the barrels. They had a succession of people making
them, and it was really hit or miss. You'd get one guy saying his was a tack driver, while the next guy
was screaming robbery. My understanding is that Ruger now makes their own barrels, but not owning
one I can't say if that's good or bad. The problem with the barrels frightened me off a long time ago.
Best wishes.
Cal - Montreal
Cal I hear you, hence this thread. I will admit I polished mine extensively. How I did such in itself is a 'story'. Low on time now, maybe later. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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| I own an old tang safety M77 220swift with factory bull barrel and its a tack driver. I had trigger work done and the gunsmith happens to collect the older rugers. He claimed that ruger ran alot of bull barrels from douglas and my rifle had a douglas barrel on it. Jbelk who used to post alot,also had a thread on one of the forums,about the old Ruger 220 swifts and douglas barrels. He claimed most were so accurate from the factory,that gunsmithing wasn't necessary and couldn't really improve anything.
Jim Carmichel in his book the rifle,talks about the ruger 220 swift. Evidently ruger themselves were impressed with accuracy of the 220 swift in the tang safety M77. For some time it was the most accurate rifle/caliber combo they sold. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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| so how does one tell if an old ruger in question has a douglas barrel |
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| The early No.1's had the Douglas barrels, and the M77's had barrels from many different suppliers. That is why the M77 had such a "maybe good, maybe not" reputation. They had a lot of problems with bad chambers with variable throat depths.
The barrels on their current rifles are excellent. I have one of their varmint/target models in 22/250 and it has one of the smoothest bores I've seen on any factory rifle. It also shoots in the low .3's all the time.
As far as their triggers are concerned, the target model is outstanding. It's not the same trigger as the standard M77. |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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| The early varmint M77's also had douglas barrels and as time went on,ruger started using other brands on both the M77 and NO.1. As to the accuracy of the current M77 swift. It's nothing but a gamble and the odds are stacked against you getting a current M77VT thats worth a shit. The trigger is ok,if you like a two stage trigger. The barrels are more consistent now that ruger makes their own. I've yet to see the barrels as the issue with current m77's there are plenty of other problems though. I have a new 30/06 that had to be sent back to ruger,because it misfired continually. In the varmint models,I've seen plenty of 22/250's that with load development and a proven reliable scope, had a hard time shooting less then 2moa at 100 yards. One was sent back to ruger and returned with a test target. The group from ruger was right at 2-1/4 inches and ruger said that was perfectly acceptable.
The bottom line is,there are simply to many old tang safety M77 swifts in circulation,that you can pick up fairly cheap. Clean them up good and shoot them for accuracy. If they don't shoot well,rebarrel them and chances are,you'll have an extremely accurate rifle for a cheaper price then a new one. I wouldn't worry to much about only finding shot out swifts either. Few were ever shot out,most are fouled out from improper cleaning. I've purposely tried to burn a swift up on prairie dogs over the course of several years and was unsuccessful. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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| "I've purposely tried to burn a swift up on prairie dogs over the course of several years and was unsuccessful"
Holy &*%#)^& eiiiittttt... I don't believe it. The actual truth about the SWIFT just ONCE. I hear all this claptrap about barrel burning and I think these typewriter jockey's NEVER have shooten one. Sorry, it's just so REFRESHING to hear the truth just ONCE. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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| so do all heavy barreled tang saftey rugers in 220 swift have douglas barrels. is there anything identifing the barrels as being made by douglas |
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so do all heavy barreled tang saftey rugers in 220 swift have douglas barrels. is there anything identifing the barrels as being made by douglas
To my knowledge-- NO. Various manufacturers produced them... I thought Wilson made most of them myself. Mine was a Wilson, from what I was told. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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so do all heavy barreled tang saftey rugers in 220 swift have douglas barrels. is there anything identifing the barrels as being made by douglas
Just got off the phone with Ruger, about this subject. They would not release that information, so I called a friend of mine who worked for Ruger back then. He said Ruger never put Douglas barrels on any of the M77's (heavy barrel or other wise). And the Douglas barrels were used on the early No.1's only. His comment was "Ruger wouldn't spend that kind of money on a barrel for an M77".
He did say they had two different suppliers for barrels, but didn't really want to say who. He still does buisness with Ruger, and wanted to protect his position.
So,,, RMK is off base on this one.
Good Shooting,
MaBell |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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| Yes they had differant suppliers alright. The early model M77 in bull barrel used douglas and wilson. The NO.1 used douglas also. The M77 tang safety had far more then just two suppliers later on.They even used reject shit from weatherby.The national rifleman did a write up on this several years ago. As to finding one with a douglas barrel. I didn't know the barrel on my M77 was douglas until my smith pointed it out. He did alot of warranty work for ruger and collects them. According to him the majority of douglas barrels were early in production (more then likely because ruger acquired a run of barrels cheaply,thats how ruger operated. Buy barrels in cheap lots from variuos manufacturers)and they have douglas markings,mine is on the bottom of the barrel and the stock has to be romoved to read it. This isn't a rebarrel,because it has rugers factory marking on it. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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| I should have known, RMK knew more about Ruger firearms than than my friend that "WORKED" for Ruger,,,,,,
(I also read your post over on the Wyoming Hunting License thread,,, WOW you impressed me there too). |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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| No Ma bell, after ruger wouldn't verify the brands of barrels they used,you were desperate to make a response to my post. So you made up the part about the so called "friend that worked for ruger". The reason I know you're full of shit MA bell,is because I've yet to meet anybody with indepth knowledge of early rugers,that limited ruger to two barrel manufactureres. Wilson was the most widely used. Douglas saw limited use and ruger also bought barrels from interarms on the cheap, that were an overflow from weatherby. I've also heard of some garbage from ER shaw being used. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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| Ricochet,I've never dealt with any tang safety rugers that were that new. I'd bet it was most likely a wilson barrel though,since they seem to be the most widely used by ruger. I have shot several sporter weight 30/06's that were accurate though,with wilson barrels. What chambering do you have. A coworker has an old tang safety .220 swift with the wilson barrel and its damn accurate. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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Ricochet,I've never dealt with any tang safety rugers that were that new. I'd bet it was most likely a wilson barrel though,since they seem to be the most widely used by ruger. I have shot several sporter weight 30/06's that were accurate though,with wilson barrels. What chambering do you have. A coworker has an old tang safety .220 swift with the wilson barrel and its damn accurate.
RMK now your teasin' me and driving me wild with guilt.... I sold maybe the most accurate old tang safety Ruger there was. Just the mention of one of those old tackdrivers still in shootable condition makes me shake inside....... |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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| Thats part of gun trading aladin. I know I've gotten rid of several accurate rifles,I now wish I'd have kept. There is something satisfying about picking up one of these rifles cheap, finding out that its a tack driver and having a rifle thats better built then half the shit currently made. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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Thats part of gun trading aladin. I know I've gotten rid of several accurate rifles,I now wish I'd have kept. There is something satisfying about picking up one of these rifles cheap, finding out that its a tack driver and having a rifle thats better built then half the shit currently made.
"thats better built then half the shit currently made"
IMO make that 7/8ths of whats currently made...And for sure alot of what's coming off the lines now is SHEEEIII*****. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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No Ma bell, after ruger wouldn't verify the brands of barrels they used,you were desperate to make a response to my post. So you made up the part about the so called "friend that worked for ruger". The reason I know you're full of shit MA bell,is because I've yet to meet anybody with indepth knowledge of early rugers,that limited ruger to two barrel manufactureres. Wilson was the most widely used. Douglas saw limited use and ruger also bought barrels from interarms on the cheap, that were an overflow from weatherby. I've also heard of some garbage from ER shaw being used.
RMK,,,as usual your in over your head. I also talked to another friend of mine, L.M. Burney, who is one of the oldest firearms distributors in the southwest. He is located in Brownwood, TX. His son and I have known each other, and done buisness since the early 1970's. He is one of the largest distributors of Ruger's in the U.S. and also has production serial #7 of every model Ruger has every produced in his private collection. He also said you were very creative with the facts you are throwing around.
By the way what year was it you first met Bill Ruger,,,,,
,,,,,I first met him in March, 1976.
He was in Lamesa, Tx. at L.M. Burney's on buisness, and so was I. I was introduced to him by L.M. Burney Jr.(known to me as "Bunky"). He was a fine gentleman(which is more than I can say for you). I enjoyed other visits with him over the years, before his death.
(Burney's was originaly located in Lamesa, Tx. then moved to Brownwood, TX in the early 1980's, and more recently, are based out of Waco, Tx,,,,,,,,,,just to keep the facts straight) |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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Ricochet,I've never dealt with any tang safety rugers that were that new. I'd bet it was most likely a wilson barrel though,since they seem to be the most widely used by ruger. I have shot several sporter weight 30/06's that were accurate though,with wilson barrels. What chambering do you have. A coworker has an old tang safety .220 swift with the wilson barrel and its damn accurate.
RMK, my M77 is a .30-06, the no-sights model with integral scope bases. (Topped with a Weaver K4-W.) It's a lovely thing, despite having been lugged around through the Alabama and East Tennessee woods a lot in all sorts of weather. My wife bought it for me for Christmas in either 1983 or '84, can't recall for certain now. I've always been disappointed with its accuracy. The best I've ever been able to do with it is a 100 yard group I could cover with a hand, and I have big hands. I've tried a good bit of load development with no better results. I'm not a great shot, but I've shot lots of sub-1" groups with my .300 Weatherby Vanguard, 7mm Rem Mag M70, and Savage 12BVSS .22-250 (with which I've shot sub-1" 200 yard groups.) This rifle does have a long throat so that I can't get close to the rifling and use the magazine, but it's nowhere near as long-throated as the above mentioned Weatherby. If there's anything wrong with the barrel, I can't see it. Looks perfectly straight. The bore surface is smoother than the others I mentioned, patches glide through it and it doesn't copper foul to any extent. (That Weatherby really packs away the copper!) I'm thinking I must have a bedding problem. I've also noted that the center of impact of my crummy groups changes considerably from one trip to the range to the next. |
| | | Posts: 1325 | Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA | Registered: 24 December 2003 |
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| Ricochet, You may have a bedding problem, but it may also be a bad chamber. If you have a good local gunsmith, he could set the barrel back a thread, and recut your chamber. This would fix any problem with it, and also leave you with the original factory barrel, so the rifle would be just the way your wife gave it to you.  A good gunsmith could also tell you if he thought there was a bedding problem. The bedding would be my first guess though. Good Shooting, MaBell |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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Thanks for the suggestions!
If it were a miscut chamber, couldn't I tell it by measuring the runout of fired brass?
In a word "No".
The reason for that is the elasticity of the brass. You will be dealing with residual stress in the brass, and even annealing will not remove this to a degree you can use it for measurments. Brass is very springy, and is also very susceptible to thermal expansion and contration. If you have a brass case that is 68�F and you pick it up and hold it in your hand for a minute or two you can alter the dimensions .0005" by heat tranfer from your hand.
Your best bet is to have a chamber cast done with Cerrosafe. This is the only way to get a dimensionally accurate impression of your chamber. It also takes measuring instruments more accurate than a set of calipers to check this. Calipers (no matter what type) are only accurate to a plus or minus .001". So a good digital micrometer, a dial indicator, and a good setup to measure your casting is very important.
Well you ask what time it was and I told you how to build a clock.  But if I can help in any way let me know.
Cheers,
MaBell |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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| Agreed on the bedding- Rugers are notoriously poorly fit to the action in wood stocks. |
| | | Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001 |
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| So Ma bell,you're a transplant texas dipshit living in colorado. Thats a real shocker. Your buddy has sold all of those rugers and still doesn't know what he's talking about. I can see why you two are friends.
As for you blowing bill ruger,what the hell does that have to do with a .220 swift and douglas barrel.
I never met bill ruger,but the vast majority of people who I've met that new bill ruger or had dealings with him. Claim he was basically an asshole,that felt he was doing you a favor,by letting you spend money with him. His basic response to complaints about his products made in private was,"what do you expect for the price I'm selling them for,find someone better".
I read an interview done by Guns and Ammo,with ruger for the companies 50th anniversary,it summed bill up well. His crowning achievement,in his eyes,was the cap and ball pistol they offer. He was concerned that the management was going to discontinue this gun,because of cost of production and lack of interest from customers. They asked him why not reintroduce the original 44mag. carbine,which the public is after. He didn't think it was a good idea and cost was an issue. Ya, cost was an issue but the cap and ball that nobody is buying is a great idea. This from the same guy that thinks 3moa at 100yards is acceptable from a bolt action centerfire rifle.
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| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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So Ma bell,you're a transplant texas dipshit living in colorado. Thats a real shocker. Your buddy has sold all of those rugers and still doesn't know what he's talking about. I can see why you two are friends.
I believe I said I was there on buisness,,, or did you miss that???
It's great to have "Experts" like you around.
Obviously you know nearly as much about Rugers as you do about me... Of course that's only the impression I have from reading your posts here, and in the other threads. Who knows you my be a very decent person. 
Cheers,
MaBell |
| | | Posts: 79 | Location: Colorado (out in the sticks) | Registered: 08 October 2003 |
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| Ricochet, check your action screws first. The most common problem with lousy shooting Rugers. The front should be very tight. Then tighten the rear close to that. But the middle action screw should be only finger tight. Any tighter and the action will distort thus destroying the accuracy of the rifle.
Check your bedding for tight spots with the twice folded dollar bill. Actually, I like even more clearance than that. If it's forend is still bedded, check for even bearing of the pressure point. You can try a folded bussiness card under the reciever ring, or the barrel shoulder, to see if free floating the barrel helps. E |
| | | Posts: 1022 | Location: Placerville,CA,USA | Registered: 28 May 2002 |
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| You should be able to open the magazine door and reach in with your fingers and move the magazine box freely,if you have the correct tension on the second or middle screw. Too tight and you'll warp the action,throwing accuracy off. |
| | | Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002 |
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