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I think it sounds like you have chip on your shoulder for no particular reason.  I think the 17HMR is the perfect medicine for areas where extended ranges aren't expected and noise is a big factor. Many of the places where I used to varmint hunt have become "mini-ranches" and the noise of a center fire just plain makes the natives nervous (mostly transplanted Californicators). Also, the 17 HMR is substantially faster and flatter than the 22Magnum and won't ricochet like the 22 bullets are prone to do. And from the expansion tests I've seen from Varmint Al's website, the little 17 grain bullets are way more effective than any 22 magnum rimfire ever dreams of being.- Sheister | |||
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| one of us |
You're right in that there really isn't a "need" for the .17HMR, and the ammo isn't as cheap as I'd like (I bought a bunch at $8.90 shipped), but I don't really need to have a concrete justification for a new rifle. The only excuse I need is "I didn't already have one." In the world of hunting I suppose a guy could get by just fine with a .22long rifle, a .223, a 30/06, and a 12Gauge, but what's the fun in that? According to the demand for rifles and ammo, the .17HMR is already a huge success. Here locally there are waiting lists for rifles and guys are buying ammo as soon as it hits the shelves, guys that don't even have rifles yet. I don't see the .17HMR as trying to replace the .22 Mag, I see it simply as another choice added to the stable. My battery consists of the .17HMR, .22LR, .22Mag, .17Rem., .223Rem., .22-250Rem, .243Win., .270Win., .300Win. Mag., 20 gauge, 12 gauge, and a few pistol calibers thrown in for good measure. Do I need each one, I guess not. Would I give any of them up, not on your life! I guess the .17HMR being ill suited for the varminting world is left to the eye of the beholder. To me it seems custom made for ground squirrels (potguts), prairie dogs, jackrabbits, raccoons, etc.. I can also see where it's ideal for areas where richochets are a concern. I've shot three critters with mine so far, all were head shots, and all acted as if they had been pole-axed. I guess the short and simple answer would be, I love my Ruger 77/17 and the .17HMR. | |||
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David, you make some very good points. I guess only time will tell, however, I dont think the 17HRM is going to last. Sheister... I took a look at "varmit Al's" pictures on his web site and find your comments surprising... that is, unless you have not gone hunting with a 22 mag much(or a 22 LR for that matter), infact I thought the dammage was quite a bit less then winchesters 40 gr HP power points in 22 LR. Though most of my game animals with my 22 mags have been coyotes and jacks, and not ground sqls, when shooting at 200 yards, knowing the range, the extra 7-8 inches of drop is meaningless... the concern is wheather you have the range estimated correctly on such a small animal. I would vouch for the 22 mag over the 17 any day. If I wanted a specialized 17 caliber BS cartridge I would turn to the multitude of wildcats out there, like the 17 GSG, 17 Ackley hornet. As for the craze of buyers... the 5% ers' will subside in time. | |||
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| <Made in Sweden> |
I guess I have the answer to this and every other question in this field of calibers and guns, needed or not needed. The magical answer is: If it exists, Its needed!!! And if its needed, I want one!!! | ||
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| <JerrBear356> |
A lot of people believe it or not have enough calibers to reload for without going out and getting a .17ccm, and would rather go out and buy the HMR. I am a reloader, but I think those HMR are neater than hell. I want to get one but I just bought a 22-250 and a 6PPC, so I am going to wait a little while. And by the way as the HMR becomes more and more popular the price will drop because CCI will have beefed up production, and Hornady would give out the rights to other companies as well. | ||
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| <Hutt> |
I have recently shot both 77/22 in .22mag and 17HRM side by side on a eastern oregon sage rat hunt.The 17HRM round makes the .22mag looked enimic in terms of exploding varmints, velocity and trajectory.If my 77/22 were a mag. I would most definitly convert. | ||
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| <Paul Dustin> |
I would agree with Sheister on the 17HMR it will be a good for around town | ||
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one of us |
I was questioning the validity of this development the other week at the range. I contended that a 17 Ackley Hornet would be tons better and cheaper to boot. A guy I'd never met said something that shut me right up...centerfires are illegal in much of the East. And it has been a long time since the rimfire crowd has had a new toy to play with. Don't we all like new toys??? Tim | |||
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| Moderator |
quote: Had they put a frangible 25gr. bullet in a .22WMR load, you'd see the same type of explosiveness and flatness of trajectory. All they did was use an ultra-lightweight bullet in a "large" case; there's no magic involved. George ------------------ | |||
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| <Mudruck> |
quote: Wow, potguts! I havent heard someone else call them that in quite a while. Mudruck | ||
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I live in Am. Fork now, but I grew up in Highland. When I was a kid we used to shoot a lot of potguts up Am. Fork Canyon. They'd probably throw you in jail now days for shooting up there. [ 05-27-2002, 18:39: Message edited by: Buster ] | |||
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| one of us |
Well, Hey now overhomers. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} I Lived in Sandy and worked at the Noranda Mine up above Park City way back when. Real filthy, nasty place full of lead,zinc,silver and GOLD. Couldn't high grade enough to live on so I headed to Nevada. Now, that's where the gold is.I know potguts and Am Canyon and that whole area from Ogden to Provo is just about nothing but Condos. The only thing you could shoot up those canyons now is your neighbors yapping dog. I used to spend a lot of time up around Mirror and Blue lakes. Lots of 'chucks. Got my first chuck on the talus slope at Mirror lake with a Ruger #1 25-06 and a Leupold 6.5 to 20. Damed thing was so far away the hairs just about blotted him out. Held the first step on the bottom on what I thought was the middle of his body and let go. 100 gr Sierra and H4350 sent it up, up and away in two pieces. My buddy locked on the spot and I went looking. I went out about 300 yards but he kept pushing me back. I finally found a huge blood spot and where the pieces landed on the rocks and fell in the holes but didn't find anything else. Didn't have lasers then so I can't say how far for sure but I stepped of the 300 yards to the base of the rocks and the blood was that far and more up about 60 yards and way beyond beyond. I still don't believe it but guess what caliber I use for the long shots. I tried out a 6mm-284 but it didn't seem to be as explosive out beyond 500 as the 25. Maybe it was just the first and the first and the first, anything after is just a little lick. | |||
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Lighten up David,no one said YOU had to get one if you do'nt want to.I think it's kind of neat to see the rimfire selection broadened a bit more.I have a lot of centerfire stuff,,,could hang with buster,,But there's days I'll just pack both .22lr and .22wmr not feeling like dealing with looking for brass,picking up brass,carrying spent brass,etc.Also I would'nt really want to try slipping 50 rounds of .223 in my pocket ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <Mudruck> |
quote:Yea, I hear you there. I took a little trip up to what USED to be my old pot gut shooting grounds up around the area between Park City and Alta. Its all gone to condos or is private land. We really used to have a lot of fun up there walking around with our .22s shooting those things. Heck, we used to walk back through town and no-one ever gave us a second look... guess that for sure wouldnt happen in todays atmosphere. Have a good one... Mudruck | ||
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My wife and I returned last Thursday from a trip to Idaho, where we had some time to shoot a few rockchucks. We stopped @ 200 to leave seed for next year. of that # 38 were killed with the 17HMR in a Marlin Laminated SS with a Leupold 4X14. We made shots from 50' to 125 yards in a full 30 mph crosswind. All one shot kills and no complaints. The 'chucks ranged from about 3 to 8lbs. I had three misses and they were all due to my miss judgement of the wind by holding to far into the wind. I was pleasently surprised in the fact there was less wind drift than expected. I think we all need to keep things in perspective and compare apples with apples. I also have an H&K M300 in 22 mag. and it is VERY accurate. Still I would not have tried some of the shots, we made with the 17 HMR, if I had the M300. It just would not have made some of the shots and the bullets would not have killed like the 17 that is starting at 2550. About 1000fps faster than the 22 mag. I don't think it will change the world but I believe it is here to stay. After all it IS a tack driving,(as is my M300-22mag)hard hitting round with a superior bullet/design, by my experience. Oh, yes I have killed several racoons with the 22 mag. works well I still think the 17HMR IS noticably better at what it does. I've only fired about 250 rounds of 17HMR but I think that's a fairly good beginning. Oh, yea, www.midsouthshooters.com you can get ammo for - I believe $7.68 a box same as alot of 22 mag ammo. I just received a carton two weeks ago. Good Shooting. "Z" | |||
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| one of us |
I have the Ruger all weather 77/17 in .17HMR (17 Hummer). I am extremely impressed with it's accuracy and velocity. I am getting 1575 FPS over the chronograph and 100 yard groups of ~.400. I was also impressed by how it bucks the wind. I was expecting the wind to have a much greater affect on this 17 grain bullet. It has performed very well on squirrels, racoons, jackrabbits, etc. out to my longest shot of about 125 yards. I also understand that Hornady is working on a 20 gr. or heavier bullet to have even better wind bucking ability. The Hornady V-Max bullet is manufactured much more precisely than the mostly plated bullets used in the .22 WMR so accuracy potential is greater. I for one really enjoy shooting this round. It has zero recoil and a very quiet report when compared to any centerfire. I for one think it is a winner! | |||
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| one of us |
I purchased a NEF single shot and LOVE it. I have a 22lr in a fairly accurate hunting rig and use that on squirrels untill bow season starts. This year I have been carrying the 17 and having a ball. It is a very accurate little rifle(having a bull barrel). I never thought about a 22 mag as I have a .243 for the longer range groundho/varmit stuff, but this little flame thrower interested me from the get go due to it's design specs out to 200 yards. I can't wait to see what the heavier loads they are working on shoot like. As has been said before, Centerfire's are illegal some parts of the year but rimfire is not so I have a longer range varmit gun with minimal chance of richochet. | |||
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Greg, What scope did you put on your NEF? Shark | |||
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| one of us |
An old Tasco 4x by 40 that I had. I want to put a variable on it but that will be later.(funds!) I did have to get a set of high profile rings in order to get to the hammer as the low profile ones I had were to low to allow the rifle to be cocked or fired! | |||
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Greg, I understand the funds issue. I have a 3x9 on mine. What power variable are you thinking of getting. I am wondering if a 3x9 is enough for this round? | |||
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David Boren: I definitely plan on having one of the 17 HMR's ready to go by next spring. I have been looking over the ballistic charts and the wind drift charts and the 17 HMR has definite and significant advantages over the 22 Mag in both areas. My friends that are shooting them now report excellent accuracy and more than adequate lethality out to 200 yards. Thats what I want! I am thinking of the heavy barreled Marlin bolt action Rifle. I have a Marlin now in 22 Magnum and I am impressed with its accuracy - so I think I will stick with the Marlin. I tend to think that here in Montana with the popularity of Ground Squirrel Hunting that the 17 HMR will be around for a long time. I already have the scope picked out for it. It is the 4X12 Simmons Variable. Last year I traded the high dollar ($350.00!) 4X12 AO Leupold Variables I had on my Ruger 10/22's for the $75.00 apiece Simmons scopes. The Leupolds then went on centerfire Varminters. The Simmons scopes have performed perfectly during the many Ground Squirrel Hunts I have been on with them. I presently own 4 Varmint Rifes in caliber 223 Remington as well as one each of Remingtons and T/C's pistols in 223 Remington. I think there is a definite need and place for the 17 HMR Varminters. I am willing to pay for the ballistic tip type ammo for the 17 HMR. I don't think you will find quality ballistic tip type ammo for a 223 at $10.00 for a box of 50! May the 17 HMR have a long and fulfilling career as a moderate range Varmint caliber! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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I love my Marlin 17V.It shoots one hole groups at 75 yards.But the Raccoons around here don`t like it. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:I hope they aren't shooting anything bigger than a ground squirrel at 200yrds! The two accepted schools of thought on bullet performance are: 1. Heavy bullet traveling at low velocity. 2. Light bullet traveling at high velocity. The 17 HMR pushes a very light (17gr) bullet at a mere 2500fps. This is sad any way you look at it. For the big Ohio groundhogs I shoot........ At less than 100yrds.... the HMR gives no real advantage over the 22WMR. At anything much over 100yrds...I owe it to my quarry to use a centerfire. The 17 HMR is a very narrow niche caliber that a marketing dept is trying (successfully) to sell to a gullible mass market. ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
As I had commented in my earlier post we had killed rockchucks from 50' to 125 yards actually the longest was running at 186 yards and died instantly. Although many were in the 2 to 4 pound range we did shoot 8 to 10 that were 6 to 8 lbs. and they died just as quickly. My experience with the 17HMR is the same as the Glock pistol. The biggest critics are those that have no actual experience with it. I was sceptical myself, yet after having actually used the 17HMR I am a believer. It is a 200 yard gun but so is the 22WMR. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Try it you'll like it Good Hunting, "Z" | |||
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one of us |
quote:And back in the '60's, the CEO of IBM said that there would never be a need for more than 5 or 6 computers on the whole planet.......and that personal computers were out of the question............ A hundred years ago, many thought the horseless carriage was also a needless, passing, expensive novelty............ Many now believe that every niche of the centerfire world has been filled and there is no need of any more experimentation......... Get my drift??????.......... | |||
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| one of us |
That is why we all live in this great country and have many options available to us. Simply put: if you like it and want one, buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy one!! There are are alot of people very happy with this new cailber. I am sure the market will be very flooded in the furture with the "new" short magnums. Get used to it. | |||
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| one of us |
I posted earlier about my positive experiences with this little round. Now it is several weeks later and I am even more in love with it. I took a crow last week with a head shot at 235 paces. Given the lack of recoil I was able to see the impact. Let's just say the crow didn't know what hit him. I for one think this caliber is here to stay and it is slowly becoming one of my favorite rounds. Not a small accomplishment given that I shoot many, many calibers. | |||
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Shark Bait, You still have the 3x9 on yours or did you get something a little bigger? | |||
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| one of us |
Greg, I replaced the Burris 3x9 with a Weaver V16 4-16 x 44 scope. I like it much better than the 3x9. I would have had a real tough time hitting that crow with my 3x9. What do you have on yours? [ 10-16-2002, 23:34: Message edited by: Shark Bait ] | |||
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| one of us |
I recently read an article on the 17hmr. It killed most small critters out to 80 yards without a problem. When tested on a coyote, they shot it head on, squarely in the chest, it dropped instantly, then went right back on it's feet just as quick, and was never seen again. Now that was a small western yote. Around my place, things like wodchucks, and red fox really don't exist any longer because these eastern yotes have all but wiped them out. Thats too bad, because the 17 would probably work good for it. Try to picture the 458 win mag, necked down to the 300 win mag. Thats the 22 mag necked down to 17 hmr. except the 17 has no penetration, just speed. The 22 mag is a more reliable killer on the big stuff. Take big critters out of the equation, and the 17 would be fun. I'd love to try the 17 on neck shot turkey hunting. Fragment on impact would work well there. Just my ramblings.... Trigger | |||
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| one of us |
Shark Bait, Still have the 4x on it. I'll place something bigger on my christmas list TRIGGERHAP2, I read a report by someone saying it is a terrable cartridge as he took a shot at a paint can with a brick in it at 200 yards. All he say was a puff of smoke. and a mark on the brick. Absolutly a nothing round so says this gentleman. Now I say wait a second, 200 yard HIT and a penetration of a paint can(not an animal by far but much harder) and marking a brick to boot on a VMAX varmit round. I say that sounds like GREAT performance to me! Knowing the ballistics of the round and the fact that it is a varmint round by design a head on full chest shot on a 'yote seems to me to be a chancy shot. If the 'yote was at 80 yards and closing I'd wait till a broadside shot presented or else he got to halitosis distance and put one through his eye. Broadside into the boiler room this is going to be one potent round. Into the shoulder or center chest on a 'yote dosn't seem to be high percentage shot. I will use this as i would a bow in shot placement and selection and I will let everyone know how I do. The farm I have permission to hunt on has a number of 'yotes on it so I will spend some time later this fall/winter calling with the 17. | |||
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amosgreg, My point being a 22 mag would have blown it's heart out at 40, 60,or 80 yards. Any descent varmint round should have flattened that dog at that range. The 17HMR reminds me of the smooth bore 22 with birdshot, a USELESS novelty, except for rats,and mice. Trigger | |||
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TRIGGERHAP2, I will keep this thread in mind and post my results and see what happens. a 22lr at that range should also have doine the trick. The VMAX in tough material like sheet rubber dosn't penetrate nor do I expect it to but a center chest shot if a little low and into the sternum would be likly to blow up this round just like a point of shoulder shot. As I said I think it is yote medicine with proper placement but I do agree it isn't an all around varminter round yet. Some of the additional loads in the 25 to 28 grain department if the velocities are up should be nice yote medicine. I keep you informed of my experiances good and bad. | |||
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| one of us |
amosgreg, proper shot placement? Therein lies the potential problem. When calling in yotes, i've generaly gotten two presentations, Coming right at me before the shot, and hauling ass directly away after the shot. They don't "pose" broadside, like most whitetails do. I'm not sure which cartridge you are relating to when talking about the v-max. I shoot 40 grain winchester solids, and hollow points. Both penetrate through a 4" yellow pages phone book. Neither would have a problem with a frontal yote shot. They kill deer quite easily also. 17 grains of fragile bullet just ain't enough. In all fairness to the 17, the article I read did tell of a bobcat the author shot in the head that died instantly. The bullet penetrated into, but never exited the skull cavity, so i'd imagine if you could get a yote to hold still long enough, the head shot would work also. A broadside shot might work as long as you did'nt hit a rib. If you did, the bullet might only spray 1 lung with fragments, and the yote might go aways on 1 lung. From what information i've gathered, shooting yotes with that 17 is more of a stunt. However, I hate em, so my motto is shoot em with whatever you got at the time. Good luck. Trigger | |||
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| <FarRight> |
Remington has loaded a 33 gr V-max Boat Tail at a stated muzzle velocity of 2000 fps. You ask me, this is going to be a much more effective load at any range than the .17 HMR. Face it, noise concerns? The .22 Mag is no Earsplitten Loudenboomer. If you want your .17 HMR, by all means go for. Me, I'll stick with something a little larger than 17 grains, even for squirrels. | ||
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| one of us |
To each his own. That is what makes the world go round, right? I am just glad that we live in a country where we have alot of new product introductions and a plethora of options when it comes to firearms. As I stated above I am having alot of fun with my .17 Hummer and I don't really need any more justification than that. The .17 has definitely impressed me, especially in the accuracy and trajectory dept. It has been more than enough for the type of game I talk about in the prior posts and if I am going after Coyote's then chances are I am probably taking my .22-250 anyway. Good Shooting! ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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And here I've been whacking rabbits and squirrels with my r9 for a few years in a row with 7gr. pellets.Guess it goes to show ignorance is bliss.I've been downgrading from 12ga.,to .410,finally to the r9,due to shrinking hunting ground,and new nieghbors with phones.If you have "room" to use even the .17hmr,,,feel lucky. | |||
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quote:I think that's something that makes this a fun hobby. I mean, I love the .22LR and would really like to buy one, but there are options now. There's the 17gr. .17 HMR cruising at 2550fps, but there is also the option of the 33gr. V-MAX from a .2 WM at a decent 1900fps+. Would you rather hit them with a tiny missle or a big cannonball? The Weatherby Theory vs. The Keith Theory all over again. Is there anything wrong with a .22LR 40gr. @ 1200fps? It's all in the options, and of course the rimfire guys are gonna argue this one like the "all-around rifle" topic. Makes life fun! | |||
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| one of us |
A buddy of mine has had a 17HMR built and it shoots great. I'm not really impressed with it over my 22 mag. If I were to Purchase a 17 it would be centerfire so that I could really get some performance. Just my $.02 worth. | |||
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