I got an Laser Genetics ND-3 for Christmas (which needs to go back as it gave out after turning it on for about the 4th time), that is however another story. However, before it quit working it became apparent that I will need illuminated recticles on my "night rifles" if I am to take advantage of the ND-3 or for that matter start hunting varmints at night period. I have a CZ 550 22-250 and am looking at a Bushmaster AR15 Predator 223 as my varmint/night rifles. I can't afford a Swaro or Ziess illuminated scope so it appears I am down to one of the following three. I want to put the same scope on both rifles so that means I need two of these rascals. Below are what I have narrowed for my search to for the moment. Comments on these scopes would be appreciated.

Burris 4-16x44 Signature Select w/ LRS Ballastic Plex (1")
Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-3 w/ illuminated B&C or Fine Duplex (30mm)
Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point w/red triangle or mil-dot crosshair w/amber dot (30mm) I think the green dot will get washed out using the ND-3 since it is a green laser

Thanks for you input on this.

I have a Lewey 4.5-14 QD Manager VXL 50mm with the 30mm tube. It has a Duplex reticle. You can easily see it in low light but not at all in the daylight.

I'm not sure about the relative cost.
I think the Premier would be ideal for varmint night rifles.
http://www.premierreticles.com/Products/HT5-25.html

Hey BHW, I've been running a Test on 3 Illuminated Scopes for about 2 years. None of them are on your list though.

I'm also looking at the Bushnell 4-16x Illuminated model to expand the Test. My concern about it is that it does not have an Adjustable Objective. One that I have now is also that way though and does fine.

My other concern is I believe that particular Bushnell has both Red and Green Illumination. That means the Intensity Adjustment Range is cut in half. If the "Lowest" Intensity does not cause Night Blindness, then it would not make any difference. But if it does, then the Illumination Feature is worthless for Night or Twilight use. One of the Illuminated Scopes I have is just a bit too bright on the Lowest setting. The other two are excellent.

All my Illuminated Scopes use the readily available, inexpensive "2032" Battery. One of my buddies has an Illuminated Leupold and it has some kind of Battery which was relatively expensive and difficult to locate. He found them on-line and got a better price by buying 10 at one time and split the order with another guy.

I haven't decided if I prefer the Red or Green Illumination the best. Two of mine are Red and one is Green.

However, for a person that actually Hunts in Twilight periods and Night conditions, it appears to me the Illuminated Scopes will be very difficult to beat - as long as the Intensity goes low enough.

Best of luck with your Illuminated Scopes.

Hot Core what illuminated scopes have you been running test on. I am not to married to the ones I mentioned, just more familiar with them.

Get a Vortex Crossfire in 3x9x42. It has an illuminated dot that is red, and a rheostat to control the intensity of the light. It is a great scope at any price, at $149 retail it is an absolute steal. I have two--one on my Mod 70 30-06, the other on my Mod 70 223. Works for me.

Hey BHW, I have two Milletts. One is a 3-9x 44mm Buck Lightning with the Red Illuminated Center Cross(+) Duplex Reticle and Fixed Objective. I think it was about $110 when I got it. After subjecting it to some HEAVY Recoil, I noticed a very small piece of what appeared to be "Gasket Material" stuck to the inside of the Eyepiece. Maybe about as big as " ( ". It was out of the way, near the edge of a quadrant and would not have stopped a Hunt. Even considered just ignoring it. But then I realized I'd be able to see how well the Millett Warranty worked. Spoke with a CS Rep and he said to return it and I'd get a new one as a replacement sent out the day they received mine. I was concerned the "new" scope would have Brighter Illumination on the Lowest Setting, but the CS Rep assured me that would not be the situation. He said Feed-back from original users had resulted in the intensity being reduced across all their Illuminated Models and the new one would be the same as what I had. He was correct. The replacement is taking a good bit of Recoil and is showing no indication it has even been on a rifle. Twilight Clarity is similar to all my older Leupold VariX-IIIs, which sure surprised me for that cost.

The other Millett is a 4-16x 50mm TRS-1 with the Green Illuminated Center Cross(+), Mil-Dot Bar Reticle and Target Turrets. The TRS-1 is very heavy, maybe 2#, has a 30mm tube and Side Adjustable Objective. It is on a 7mmRemMag at the moment and would make an excellent on-Stand Combination. It came with a set of Lens Covers which have Rubber Straps between the Covers. One of the Rubber Straps broke while the Covers were on the Scope. The Millett CS Rep sent a FREE replacement and it got here in about 5-6 work days. Also VariX-III Clarity and was maybe $195- $210 when I got it. The cost has gone up on this model to about $340.

So, both had a couple of very minor issues, which were quickly and professionally resolved by Millett.

The last of the three is an Optronics for $69.95 . It is a 6-24x 42mm with the Red Illuminated Center Cross(+), Mil-Dot Reticle, Target Turrets, Adjustable Objective, and a better Warranty than Leupold. On their web site it says that "even if you run over it with your truck, we will replace it at NO Charge"(or words to that effect). It is pretty l-o-n-g and the Intensity is just a bit too Bright on the Low end to recommend it as a good scope for Hunting Twilight. Not by much, but enough different from the Milletts to be noticable. As light fades, there comes a point where the Illumination will cause you to have trouble seeing past the Reticle. It has endured a lot of Recoil and has not missed a beat. It "claims" to have 1/8" adjustment, but mine is 1/4" for each click. Clarity is similar to a VariX-II, which also really surprised me. This will eventually end up on my Squirrel Rifle because the Intensity will not hurt anything there. Plus the Red Illuminated Center Cross(+ will stand out real well when the trees still have leaves.
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I got into the Test because of friends kids asking me for "Inexpensive Scope" recommendations. Had no idea at all. I did find out while surveying 25+ Gun Shops, the Bushnell Scops have the least returns of ALL scopes - including the $$$HIGH$$$ scopes. That was a very nice surprise too, because of the relatively inexpensive cost of the "Banner Series", which includes the 4-16x Illuminated.

Some scopes Illuminate the entire Reticle instead of just the central " + " and of course that just floods the scope with unnecessary light. The Bushnell only Illuminates the " + ", and it is a Fine(narrow width) Cross, but it covers about 70% of the viewing area. Haven't Tested one, so it may be OK, but I do not know. I'd not be concerned about the Bushnell Quality at all, but the size of the Cross might be a bit large - pure guessing, really do not know.
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Hey Sharpsguy,
1. Where did you purchase the Vortex Crossfire?
2. Have you had any concern about "Scope Cant" with it having a Red Dot instead of a Cross( + )? This may be of no consiquence at all for the actual distances we would normally use an Illuminated scope in Low Light conditions.
3. Does the Intensity hide a Paint Bucket on it's side, at 100yds, with Twilight conditions?
4. Does it Illuminate the small central " + " or the entire Reticle?
5. What kind of battery does it use.
6. Is it an Adjustable Objective?
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Oh yes, when I first looked at the Burris Illuminated scopes many, MANY years ago, they only offered the Red Illuminated Center Dot. I never could find anyone using one of them who could tell me if Scope Cant was anything to concern my self with or not.

I'd contacted Leupold way back then to see about having the "Eyepiece" swapped out on a whole bunch of my Leupolds. I figured they would do it for maybe $100 each back then. They told me if I wanted the Illuminated Models, to sell my current scopes and buy new ones. Haven't bought a Leupold since then. And now that I see the clarity of these relatively inexpensive scopes, I doubt I'll ever buy another Leupold. Lots of excellent, relatively inexpensive scopes are on the market today. All with Warrantys as good as, or better than Leupold.

I cannot comment on your scope choices, as I've never used any of them. I have read a few posts on PredatorMasters about the ND-3 and it seems like the illuminated reticle is the way to go if using that as your illumination.

If using other than the ND-3 then there are many ways to hunt at night without an illuminated reticle. I do a lot of night hunting for fox/coyote with my Rem 700 VS in .223 with a scope-mounted Lightforce spotlight on my Leupold 8.5-20x 40mm Vari-X. I have never felt that I needed a lit reticle when using the spotlight.

I have also done a fair amount of night hunting in open areas of snow covered fields with a fair amount of man-made light (suburban area with lights reflecting off clouds). I have no problem picking up the reticles and/or coyotes when looking through the scope at low power. I can count on at least all of Jan-Feb-Mar for snow, but I would guess you don't see that much.

I wish you luck with the ND-3, but I have not read too many good things about it yet. Problems with operation in cooler temperatures and other issues would make me think twice, but you can't do that with a gift. If you had the chance, I'd consider exchanging the ND-3 for a Lightforce.

If you don't switch rifles often then you may also want to consider buying one good scope with QR releases and using a Picatinny style base on both rifles.

Good luck.

Hot Core--I purchased the Crossfires from Vortex at their booth at the Sport Show in Harrisburg, Pa. Last Feb. The battery is a common, inexpensive battery readily available. I don't have the number of it off the top of my head.

The reticle is a crosswire with a small dot in the middle. Only the dot is illuminated, and the degree of illumination ranges from none at all to a very bright dot that you control by turning a knob on the top rear of the scope. You vary the brightness to suit yourself and the light conditions. The crosshairs are not illuminated, nor do they need to be. It will pass your paint bucket test.

I don't worry about rifle cant at the distances we shoot at night.

The scope does not have an adjustable objective. It is well thought out, and works extremely well.

Thanks SharpsGuy! It does sound like a fine scope and at a very nice price.

Any idea how large the Red Dot happens to be? 1MOA? 2? 3?

I'm not sure how big the dot is in MOA. I do know that if you put it on a crow at 200 meters and pull the trigger on the .223, you get a shower of feathers.

the one i liked best was the microdot one. that had a 1 minute red dot on a rheostat, but i'm not sure if they are available anymore. i find the illuminated crosshairs to be much to bright too. the burris signature has just the dot in the center with a rheostat. mueller illuminates the center crosshair section too.

I have one of these I bought several years ago. It works great.

Site-Pro

Not an illuminated reticle in the true sense of the meaning but I have been using a couple Bushnell Elite 3200's with Bushnell's Firefly Reticle.

Since I use these scopes on Rifles that I use for both Coyote Hunting and Whitetail Deer Hunting I had to do some research. South Dakota's laws prohibit using any type of electronic sight before sunrise or after sunset when hunting any big game (including Deer).

When I checked with my local Conservation Officer about using the Bushnell Firefly Scopes he said that they were prefectly legal as they are not electronic.

The Bushnell Firefly Reticle is what I would call a TriPlex reticle rather than a Duplex because there is actually 3 different thicknesses to the reticle. When illuminated via shining a flash light in the scopes eyepiece the outter two sections of the reticle glow a soft green. I have become extremely fond of this reticle when illuminated or not illuminated.

Just this past Deer Season I used the top of the bottom post on the Firefly Reticle of my Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x40mm Firefly Riflescope to harvest a Whitetail Buck at 475 yards. In practicing prior to season I knew that at 9x at 450 yards my bullets point of impact was exactly at the top of the bottom post on this reticle (this was with a .30-06 T/C Encore shooting 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips at 3048 FPS). Using the top of the bottom post for reference and knowing from actually shooting where my bullet would impact made such a shot possible.

At any rate I am one that sees Green much better than Red. I have also used a Bushnell Trophy Electronic Sight on a Ruger MKII .22 LR handgun and found the Glare / Flare was much much less in low light conditions when I used the Green vs the Red.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by SDHandgunner:
Not an illuminated reticle in the true sense of the meaning but I have been using a couple Bushnell Elite 3200's with Bushnell's Firefly Reticle.
Larry

I have seen one of these and it is very slick.
Kinda makes you wonder why nobody else is using it?

quote:

Originally posted by SDHandgunner:
...Bushnell Elite 3200's with Bushnell's Firefly Reticle. ...

Hey SDH, I can remember various things made of some kind of Plastic waaaaay back(over 60yrs ago) that did that. It would remain visible for a long time after you cut the lights out.

1. Does the Intensity overwhelm items in the distance if you wait too long before you "charge" it?
2. How long do you charge it with your flashlight?
3. How long does it typically stay Illuminated with a full charge?
4. If Twilight was at 7PM, would you charge the Reticle at 6:30PM, so it would fade a bit by 7:30PM?
5. Is it Illuminated all over the Reticle?
6. How are you possibly able to stay WARM with your present weather conditions??? It makes my bones hurt just thinking about what you all are going through.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by SDHandgunner:
...Bushnell Elite 3200's with Bushnell's Firefly Reticle. ...

Hey SDH, I can remember various things made of some kind of Plastic waaaaay back(over 60yrs ago) that did that. It would remain visible for a long time after you cut the lights out.

1. Does the Intensity overwhelm items in the distance if you wait too long before you "charge" it?
2. How long do you charge it with your flashlight?
3. How long does it typically stay Illuminated with a full charge?
4. If Twilight was at 7PM, would you charge the Reticle at 6:30PM, so it would fade a bit by 7:30PM?
5. Is it Illuminated all over the Reticle?
6. How are you possibly able to stay WARM with your present weather conditions??? It makes my bones hurt just thinking about what you all are going through.

#1, NO the reticle glows a soft green and doesn't seem to produce the glare as do the electronic reticles I have used.

#2, The longest I have charged it with a flashlight is 1 minute. (If I remember right the instructions say you can charge it for 2 minutes but I have not done more than a minute as yet.

#3, I have never really timed it but it is at least 1/2 to 1 hour.

#4, I guess what I do is when I am going to use it on a stand (mostly for Calling Coyotes) I charge it when I leave the Blazer, and have not had a problem so far with it not being illuminated.

#5, NO just the outter two thicknesses of the reticle are illuminated, the center + is not illuminated.

#6, I stay inside as much as possible. I did go out and manage to shoot one Pheasant this afternoon right before dark, but I wasn;t outside long at all, part of the reason I only shot one.

The wife and I went to Dakota Magic Casino for supper tonight. We came home at 7:00PM and it was showing -20 to -22 at that time. I just went out to start / warm up the Patrol Vehicle to go to work but didn't dare look at the temp.

They are talking record LOW TEMPS for tonight / tomorrow morning here in South Dakota.

Larry

PS the light Bushnell sends with these scopes is JUNK. I threw mine away after replacing the batteries twice and they still didn't work. I know just use my AA Mini Mag Light.

Thanks SDH, Best of luck on keeping warm.

You're very welcome. It's a heat wave here today. So far it has warmed up to - 17.

Larry

Went with the Trijicon 3-9x40 Accupoint