I am thinking about a 223 or 22-250. I like the way the Rem. 700 ADL and the Savages feel. I don't need anything pretty so either one will do. Which one will I most likely get the best accuracy out of?

Thanks,
AXEL

This is going to irritate some people, but I suspect you would get better accuracy from a Savage than any newer Remington. This is based on personal experience, not conjecture. Savages won't win any beauty contests, but they have always shot well. I have never gotten a bad shooting Savage, wish I could say the same about Remingtons!Good luck on your choice.

The two ugliest guns in my safes are Savages but strangely enough they are in the top three center fire guns that I shoot the most.

Most likely the savage will outshoot the remington.

Had Savage 12FV in 22-250 shot 1/2 inch groups with crappy trigger has 26 inch heavy barrel didnt like toting it around have had winchester coyote and 700ADL both in 22-250 neither shot near as well as the savage nor does my $1200 weatherby SPM the 12FV and some of the other models have the new accutrigger and have seen them for $429.

Another list member has stated that Savage is now where Remington used to be. I couldn't agree more. I hate the stock on the Savage, but the groups I'm getting make it bearable.

Simple.....Savage or Tikka. Both make either field rifles, or HB varmint rifles. I have each. The Tikka is SS/syn with std barrel, but 1/12" twist. Savage(s) has 1/9" twist, HB fluted SS, laminated wood. Each has its purpose, and each shoot very well.

Well I'm a little more partial to my Remingtons , but then I just finished a nice venison steak that came out of my freezer next to elk and wild pig . Cant really say how much meat they have put on the table , and they have worked over a few coyotes also . On the other hand , I have owned a 110 Savage in 7MM Rem. Mag. , and it shot great (but the action was rougher than a cob to cycle) my wife shoots a 99 Savage in .243 Win. and it really is accurate . Both company's make some damn good guns .

to repeat what others have stated, out of the box, the savage target rifles are usually better shooters. i have a couple i use for live varminting. but----if you ever want to really do anything to the rifle, custom wise, a remington might be a better choice.(such as blueprint and truing, then custom stocks, jewell triggers...etc.)

I have to agree with cwend's comments. If you're getting this rifle in .223 or .22-250Rem. you probably plan to shoot it quite a bit. The Rem.700ADL action is a good one for customizing, accurizing or simply re-barreling. All my Savages shoot well but then again I've had to glass the actions, float the barrels and change the triggers, and it's still butt ugly. My Remingtons have all shot well right out of the box. That kind of evens out the cost between the two. It's a personal choice of course. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Axel: Go with the Remington you WILL get better accuracy and have a much better Rifle and investment over the long run.
Plus people will not laugh at you for toting such an ugly piece of junk!
For instance just over the last 8 weeks I have been doing a lot of travelling and visiting Gunshops and Gunshows from Lewiston, Idaho to Portland, Oregon, Spokane, Missoula, Kalispell, Seattle, Bellingham, Washington and many places in between. It is hard to find a Gunshop with a Savage centerfire Rifle on the shelf! I stopped at one large Gunshop in Kalispell, Montana (Snappy's) with a very large selection of Rifles by Remingtons, Browning, Ruger, Winchester, Weatherby, Tikka they even had some Coopers! Not ONE savage on the shelf! I asked the counterman where the savages were and he just smirked at me and avoided answering! At another large Gun Shop in Spokane Washington I finally found ONE savage amongst the dozens and dozens of Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, Brownings and et al! That savage was the UGLIEST cheapest looking most hideous piece of shit I have ever seen! I would not have taken that savage if they offered it to me for FREE! It was jokingly glued together and sickeningly fit to the stock. The NEW savage style trigger on it looked pot metal tinny! Hokey is the best way to describe that clunker! I asked the counterperson there why so few savages on the shelves. He replied "not much call for them"! Now that was the best thing a person in the business could say about the savage after I had pretended to be interested in one! Tells you something there doesn't it!
You will keep hearing that savages outshoot Remingtons but just check ANY centerfire Rifle contest or match and see how many savages are entered into competition! Next to none is the answer!
There is a reason for that! Remingtons are more accurate!
At the numerous Gunshows I attend the Remingtons are highly sought out and retain high values! savage is just the opposite! I am retired and attend Gunshows regularly in the 5 large northwestern states. This trend has been in effect for the last 35 years that I know of!
Long live Remingtons reign over savage!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

WHAT is the intended purpose of the rifle.

IF it is to "look purrteee", then Weatherby,

if it is to "be popular" then Remmytin(ever wonder why all those custom and tweaked Remmytins out there? IF they shot WELL out of the box, why would anyone have to/want to tweak them?)

if it is to SHOOT ACCURATELY, then Savage.

Jesus Varmintguy!!!!

Did a Savage Rifle bite you when you were a kid or something???

I own 2 Savages, 1 Remington, 2 Winchesters in center fire. The fact that I have them in my gun cabinet means they shoot damn well. When talking bang for the buck, I got the best "money spent/ shooting quality" ratio from the Savages.

As for the issue of what guns you see on the firing line at competitions, it is obvious, The guys with the Remingtons are shooting paper, while the guys with the Savages are out in the field shooting game!!! I guess pretty is as pretty does.

I can take you to gun shops where Savages are sold, then take you to a gun shop where Weatherbys are sold, then take you to a gun shop where custom rifles are sold, etc. ad nauseum.....point is, buy what you can afford and enjoy the sport of putting 5 shots under a dime. Savage fits that bill quite nicely.

I guess I can understand varmintguys angst though. He probably had some guy with an ugly old Savage shooting tighter groups right next to him on the range. Some people are so insensitive!

Happy Shooting!!!

I thought I might suggest my personal favorite rifle. Small or large caliber...Sako.
The varmint rifle they offer, will be my next project.
Lighten up, VG...You dont have to put down every body elses stuff...sakofan..

What about the CZ Varmint rifles? They have laminated or Kevlar stocks, shoot good, do not have that stupid lock and are reasonably priced.

I'm going to side with VarmintGuy on this one. I purchased a new Savage 10FP .223 in Nov.98. The gunshop that I ordered it through tried to talk me out of it, but I had read all the articles on how great a Savage shoots out of the box. I was sure disappointed after my first session at the range. After spending about six months and about $200 on cleaning patches(I have never experienced such a rough barrel) and heavy 22cal bullets, It finally was a respectable shooter. Then on top of that I was still stuck with the roughest trigger known to man and one of the silliest looking so-called tactical stocks ever produced. I decided to unload it at a considerable loss before spending more on replacing the dreadful stock.
It will be hard for anyone to convince me that Savages will shoot sub moa groups out of the box. I've never seen it it and I have seen others that fell for the Savage hoopla like myself.
I will admit after giving up all hope of getting the 60-69gr bullets to shoot in it, I tried lighter bullets. To my surprise 40gr Noslers and Sierra BlitzKings would consistantly group under 1/2" moa.
Axel no matter which one you decide on you will end up spending more money than you planned on to achieve consistant accuracy.

Rem. 222

COOPER

Well guys,

Here is a pic of 2 Savages that shoot sub M.O.A. groups at 100 yds, and the targets.

Not that I expect to change the minds of those who have already decided that Savage rifles are no good; but to give some of the members who are interested in "seeing". I also have similar targets for my Remington and my Winchesters.

I have had NO work done on triggers or bedding for the Savages. I simply worked up some good handloads for the rifles and the results speak for themselves.

The Savages may look ugly, but the hundreds of dead groundhogs are still just as dead.

If you want a Savage, buy one. They work.

If you just want to belittle Savage rifles, I hope to see you on the range someday while I am testing a new batch of reloads so I can hear your excuses as to why your Remington "isn't shooting as well as it should" today.

Happy Shooting!!!

[IMG]http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/varminter66/vwp?.dir=/family&.src=ph&.dnm=savageproof.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/varminter66/lst%3f%26.dir=/family%26.src=ph%26. view=t[/IMG]

[ 05-18-2003, 00:51: Message edited by: mike elmer ]

I have 2 remington vs models. The .308 puts all the bullets in a very small clover shape hole. I have not shot my 22-.250 yet, but expect the same results. I picked up a new savage today... the stock has to go.The guy with the comment on the accutrigger, the "tin" trigger is depressed, and then the steel trigger along with it.I thought the trigger looked uncomfortable, until I tried it.If you want resell value, or to customize it buy the remington.

Out of the box? SAVAGE
VG is right about the retained value and more aftermarket goodies for the Rems.

Rems are like Harleys, were the best at one time, now you spend $8k on one to get it to perform like an $8k Honda.

The Remmies are very easy to customize, due to the action design. The factory stock setup sucks, it is not conducive to inherent accuracy. I have never seen a 700 series that didn't move around in the stock. I took apart a 700/adl/ woodstocked .30-06 today and after 25 shots the bluing is worn thru in 6 spots on the barrel and action, YES THE SCREWS WERE TIGHT!!!! I actually bought this J lock wonder, because it had the nicest wood stock I have seen on a Remmy in 20 years.

At last count I have "setup" 13 SAVAGE rifles for friends and family and all but one would shoot factory ammo under 1.5", all of the triggers were easy to tune and none required bedding.

Either is a good choice, with the Savage being lower priced.

[ 05-18-2003, 04:10: Message edited by: TERRY8mm ]

I wanted a rifle that would compete in Prairie Dog matches right out of the box. The Savage was my choice. I'm very glad I chose Savage.
Mad`

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