got the itch for a rimfire and thinking about the 17HMR. I'll probably get a savage bolt action but I've a couple of questions.

1. what is the relative max range for say a jackrabbit?
2. scope recommendations (fixed/variable)? see through mounts?
3. what is the relative max range for a coyote? the reason I ask is that I really want to pop one at night which leads me into...
4. how loud is it? I'd like to be able to take a shot or two at night without waking up the entire county. I would most likely be up in a tree, so the shot would be angled down.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as the thread develops, so chime in.

thanks,
irwin

In my expirience a good .22WMR is a beter choice where coyotes are in the mix.

My answers:

1. I've killed them out to about 200-250 yds; however, I witnessed a friend of mine take one closer to the 300 yds mark.

2. I have a Nixon 4X12X40 on mine. I wouldn't think much more is needed simply because you won't be shooting much farther then 250 yds. See through mounts = not needed IMHO.

3. Don't know. I've never shot a 'yote yet with mine and I'll stess the yet!!

4. Not loud at all because that is mainly when #1 takes place.

Irwin: I have quite a bit of Varmint Hunting experience with the 17 HMR. I bought one when they were new and have taken most all Varmints that live in the Rocky Mountains and high plains with it. I now have a 17 HMR S&W revolver in 17 HMR also.
I have killt Jack Rabbits out to at least 150 yards with mine. A lot of my Jack shooting is at night so the Laser Ranger does not get used on them much.
I did kill a big boar Badger with one shot at a lasered 173 yards though with my 17 HMR Rifle! DRT!
I have a Weaver 4x16 variable on mine now and recommend at LEAST a 4x12 scope for you.
I have killed only two Coyotes with my 17 HMR but they were both one shot kills at 100 yards. One a head shot and the other a lung/heart shot!
I feel the 17 HMR is far superior lethality wise to the 22 Magnum on all the Varmints and Turkeys that I have killt. The exception is the Coyote I have not had enough first hand experience comparing the 17 HMR to the 22 Magnum as yet! Once I get more 17 HMR use in on Coyotes I would not be one bit surprised if the 17 HMR also exceeds the 22 magnum in that regard as well!
I would say the 17 HMR is just a tad quieter than the 22 Magnum I own.
The 17 HMR is by far my favorite rimfire Varminting cartridge! Its superior ballistics and superior accuracy over the other rimfires makes it the rimfire of choice for me!
Best of luck with your Marlin if you get one!
I have the Ruger 77/17 V/T and sure love it!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

It took me awhile to try, did not see what it could do that my 22mag couldn't do but finally got one and the more I shoot the better I like it, Don't know how I would compare to 22 mag except it does shoot flatter & more quite.

I try to stay under 100yds, have taken bobcat 85yds, rabbits, snakes, really did a number on bobcat.

The other guys are right on scope, I have a bushn 3x9 and it is not enough scope, will probally pick up 3x12 later.

My 17 is laser-accurate and altogether just plain fun to shoot; no recoil, and you can watch the bullet impact through the scope. Which, I agree, should be more than the 3-9X that I'm currently using. Haven't shot much past 150 yards; I'm not sure how much "bang" that little 17gr bullet has left in it way out there. But even at 200 at the range, it's accurate.

My only complaint is the cost of the ammo -- $9 for a box of 50; I can reload my .223 for that. But in the parts of AZ where hunting is rimfire only, it's the one to have.

quote:

Originally posted by AZ223:

My only complaint is the cost of the ammo -- $9 for a box of 50

AMEN!!!!

A very accurate and flat shooting cartridge, but I think 175-200 yards is max effective range. Wind deflection and drop make shots beyond that a gamble. I think a 4-12 or there abouts is plenty of scope and If you can stomach the cost of ammo it makes a fun PD gun at reasonable ranges. I DO NOT reccommend it on anything larger than Jack Rabbits I carried it as my truck gun for about 6 months, I was Not impressed with it's lethality on coyotes, and that plus the cost of bullets has pushed the 17hmr back into the gun cabinate. The trusty old rem 788 in .223 is my truck gun again. On one Witnessed incident I shot and hit a Coyote three times and it got away.

Ricky

The 17 HMR is very accurate and flat shooting. My brother in Montana shoots PD regularly out to 200 yards and once got one at 287 long paces on the third shot. However it is pretty much a calm day rifle, any wind or grass between you and your target and your in trouble. His Marlin 917 will shoot three shots touching at 100 yds. Keep your shots inside 200 yds. on a calm day and your in business.

If you look, really look at the ballistics the 33gr. Remington Vmax load in .22WMR is all over the .17HMR at any distance. Using this load and my CZ452 with a friend equipped with a 77/17 we shot a bunch of varmints, pd's, badgers, squirrels, crows, skunks, coons, opossum,coyotes and paper. The .17 is a superior paper puncher, more accurate than the .22WMR in general, it does well on inside 100 yards varmints, though is at a disadvantage to the .22WMR 33 grain loading at any range on coyotes. Past about 125 in our expirience the .22 has the advantage in killing power though it does require more hold over. I didn't motice much if any difference in noise, the premium .22 loads are still less expensive than .17's. I chose not to trade in the .22WMR. I would agree that with 40 and 50 grain HP loading there is a decided trajectory advantage to the .17, there really isn't much with the vmax .22 loading and there is a difference in getting slapped with 33 grains rather than 17.

I agree about the coyote question. A 22WM has more power than a 17HMR and with the new high tech 22WM ammo, it is accurate as well. I use the Winchester Supreme 34g JHP loads (about $5 a box in bricks) or the CCI Maxi-Mag +V loads. The Remington V-Max loads are nowhere to be found in my area, and I have looked.

I always tell anybody who complains about their 22WM not being accurate to TRY DIFFERENT AMMO.
Most of the "ordinary" 22WM ammo was designed 20-30 years ago and is junk.

If you are going to encounter varmints the size of coyotes, a 22WM would be my choice and is really no louder than the 17HMR.

Flippy,
I don't know how your .22 mag shoots but mine doesn't like the 33 grain V-max Remington bullets. I get the best groups just using plain old Federals in a 30 grain hollow point. I don't have a problem finding the Remington though it just runs $9.99 for 50. I like the .17's as well I got to see one in action in a HM2 and was pleased by the performance. I agree that the .17 is to light on yotes unless you are a very good shot and don't take questionable ones but then I would say the same of the .22WMR. I prever a .22 centerfire or buckshot for yotes.

My longest hit on a crow is 234 yards on a dead calm day.The crow was fresh out of the nest so not verry big target and could only see the upper half.I set the sweet 17 on 225 and let fly caught him center chest.

Taylorce 1, I originally tried nearly 20 different brands/types of ammo in my 25MC. It liked several of them. Some it REALLY liked. Most of the rest looked like a shotgun pattern @100.

Have never tried the Remington ammo as it is not available in my area, but the Winchester Supreme and CCI +V shoot very well, well under an inch for 7 shots @100. I buy the Winchester from my ammo guy for about $5.25 a box in bricks. Cheaper than 17HMR ammo and more power, too.

I would opt for a 22 Hornet if sound was a problem, but that wasn't the original question.
I personally would use a .223 or my 6mm. Both have more than enough power for a coyote.

Not to start a , but inside 50 yards I believe my 22 LR provides more bang-flop kills than my 17 HMR. I have never shot a 22 WMR so I don't know what it would do. I wish I was able to easily swap barrels between 17 HRM and 22 WMR on my Volquartsen.

Thanks all,

After reading the posts, I was leaning toward the 22WMR, but then recalled the parameters of my original post...coyote at night. So the power from a 22WMR at 100-150 yards is really out of my needs. I employ a 204 and a 243 for dispatching coyote in the daytime where range and noise aren't an issue. So I guess I've talked myself into a 17; coyote at night within 50yds and other vermin out to 200yds in the day. I'll probably go with some sort of detachable mounting system for the scope and use open sights at night. Anyone know if Trijicon makes night sights for rifles?

thanks,

irwin

Dr. Lou: IT'S ON!
Let me start with some real life numbers and observations.
2 years back I fired 4,400 rounds of 22 L.R. Rimfire ammo AT Varmints! I have done this type thing for quite a number of years now!
Now and for the last several years I have fired in excess of 1,000 rounds of 17 HMR ammo each year at Varmints!
These Varmints are of all sizes and species found on the high plains and in the Rocky Mountains (Varmints like Rock Chucks, Feral Cats, Porcupines, Weasels, Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs, Rock Chucks, Tree Squirrels, Fox, Crows, Magpies, Skunks, Jack Rabbits, Porcupines, Badgers, Coyotes, Starlings, Snowshoe Hares, Cottontail Rabbits and on and on!
Based on my extensive use and comparisons, there is no way in hell that ANY 22 L.R. ammo is more lethal on Varmints of these genres, than the 17 HMR is! At ANY range!
Your contention is so startlingly ludicrous to me I simply have to ask - have you shot many Varmints (or any?) with a 17 HMR?
In fact Dr. Lou I firmly believe (based on my extensive in field experiences that the 17 HMR) that the 17 HMR IS more lethal on the aforementioned Varmints (with the POSSIBLE exception of Coyotes!) than is the 22 WMR!
And I have used the 22 Magnum for in excess of 45 years - so again I have some trigger time to base my contentions on!
I await your clarification, as to if you are trying to make a joke.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'm sorry but I have to agree with VG on this one. Inside of 100 yards the 17 is a hoot to shoot and far more lethal. I have shot some really fun 22WMR's over the years but the 17 sure is fun.

Irwin:

I have had mine, a CZ, for two years now. With the 17gr V-max bullets it's a true 250 yard prairie dog rifle if the winds are under 10-15kts.

I have not shot a coyote with mine yet, but have killed a 40lb Snapping turtle with it. The shot was through and through, right above the right leg and out the left. I used the 20gr XTP bullet and would recommend that bullet for the heavier animals. It was going to be a head shot, but I jerked the trigger...

A good friend of mine and I "bounced" several shots off of a badgers head two years ago with our 17HMR's. We could see the dust from the hits but none of the shots penetrated his skull. We were hopping to kill him without tearing him apart for a mount, but he ran off down a hole never to be seen again. More proof of the old adage, "use enough gun".

Good luck.

Varmint Guy, you have much, much more experience with the 17 HMR than I do, and I know the numbers. I just said that many of the squirrels I shot with the 17 HMR out to about 50 yds seem the flip around after being shot much more than those I shot with my 22 LR. My shooting buddies also had similar experiences. All of us were disappointed to say the least, especially after dropping better than 1K on a Volquartsen -which we still really love. We concluded that this phenomenon may be merely ammo related. We were all shooting TNT 17 grain hollow points. At close range they appeard to have passed through without any expansion. We are going try a different brand on our next outing. Any recommendations? Didn't mean to get your panties bunched up, just relating a simple and limited observation. Lou

A lot of my experience parallels VG. I've been shooting rimfires throughout Colorado at many targets and many ranges. The .22LR just does not have the capability of the .17HMR and the .22WMR at any range. Saying that, I still like to use the .22LR for small game within 50 yds. On the .17HMR HPs, I've not had great success with them, either. The v-max bullet has always seemed to provide more instant kills. Its funny, although CCI is supposed to be making most brands of the .17, its accuracy in a number of rifles hasn't equalled the Hornady, Fed, or Remington!

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Its funny, although CCI is supposed to be making most brands of the .17, its accuracy in a number of rifles hasn't equalled the Hornady, Fed, or Remington!

CCI is LOADING most of the 17HMR ammo simply because they have the ability to load more than anybody in the rimfire world.

In the first few years of 17HMR ammo, the components were virtually the same. That is one reason just about all original 17HMR ammo shot the same. It WAS the same.

That is not the case anymore. (no pun intended)
While CCI is still loading much of the 17HMR ammo, there is a greater variance in the components used, powder, bullets, etc. That is why current 17HMR ammo shoots to different POI and has slightly different MV. Also why some shoots well in certain guns and others don't.

Dr. Lou: I was just reading my newest issue of Varmint Hunter Magazine and in it there is a nifty article comparing the "suitability" (Varminting wise) of the 22 WMR vs. the 17 HMR - AND - the 17 Mach2 vs. the 22 LR.
Interesting reading and it mirrors my experiences and preference for the 17 HMR.
I totally accept your perception of what you saw and partook of there with your 22 LR's and the good (better?) lethality at the modest ranges.
Perhaps you are aiming at center of mass while I am aiming at top center on the Squirrels at those closer ranges.
Also I have not to much experience with the hollow points (17 HMR's) on Varmints from me as both my 17 HMR's like the Remington 17 gr. V-Max ammo.
Keep after'em theres lots more out there!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy, thanks for the note. I am going to pick up some of the Remington V-Max ammo that you mentioned. I am looking forward to trying it in the near future. Regards, Lou