Last fall during the long Big Game season here in Montana I had occassion to buy two new uncatalogued Remington 700 Varminters in calibers 223 Remington and 22-250 Remington! I already had plenty of Varminters in those two calibers but I was VERY taken by the looks and styling of these limited run Rifles.

The Rifles themselves are all stainless metal with 26" heavy barrels. The stocks are a laminated wood with alternating gray, silver and black in the laminates. The pistol grip cap is black. The Rifles have no bedding block or pillar bedding system from the factory. I paid $580.00 (no tax) for the 223 here in Dillon, Montana. I had trouble finding a Rifle in 22-250 once I made up my mind to get one of those also. The Rifles were very attractive, popular and sold quickly around here. I finally found a 22-250 in Idaho Falls, Idaho and had to travel and pay $629.00 plus about $35.00 in sales tax for it. The Rifles when first offered last spring had prices from $659.00 to $699.00 that I saw in several western states.

I then began scrounging for money to buy the scopes, rings and bases! I was by then flat out of money but began scrounging and selling trinkets and did some body guard work out on the coast to get the money to have them scoped up. I went with Leupold silver finish rings, bases and scopes on each. I bought a used but like new 4X12 Leupold variable with A.O.($200.00) for the 223 at a Gunshow. But I had to go with a new Leupold silver 6.5X20 for the 22-250. Both scopes have my preferred Du-Plex reticles in them.

I did my usual ultra careful mounting jobs on the bases and rings. I "bore sighted" the ring mounting jobs and then lapped both of them in with the Russ Haydon's ring lapping tool. I then adjusted both triggers myself down to 40 ounces. Both are creep free and very crisp and no backlash. The trigger on the 223 is especially wonderful!

I used the Sinclair bullet seating tool to ascertain proper bullet seating depth on both Rifles to be .001" off of the leades of the Rifling. This tool has saved me so much time and money over the years that I recommend it every chance I get! New Redding dies were obtained for both.

Finallly this past week I found time on a windless day to shoot the 22-250. I chose the Speer 52 gr. Hollowpoint Flat Base bullet in Federal cases with Federal 210M primers and 4064 powder. I carefully went through my barrel break in regimen with old ammo from another 22-250 on the cold windless day. Then I shot it for load testing with my intended bullet. The three first groups with this Rifle/load averaged .310" for 5 shots at 100 yards! To say I was happy would of course be an understatement.

More on the Redding dies - the runout on the concentricity of the test loads was averaging just a hair over .002".

I torqued the two action screws to a modest 34 inch pounds each. I will use this Rifle for long range Coyotes, Prairie Dogs and Rock Chucks.

Then yesterday the wind was just creeping along at my house and I decided to rush to the range at 3:00 PM and at least break in the barrel of my 223 limited run 700 VLSS and maybe get some load testing in if the wind quit.

I had decided to use the Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic Tips in this Rifle as I have a bunch of them in storage and I plan on using this Rifle for night Hunting/calling and ranges won't be that far (under 250 yards usually - yeah the Coyotes at night even are a long range situation here on the high plains). I used Winchester brass, Federal 205M primers and H4895 powder in my test load. This Remington's throat is pleasingly short and the 55gr. bullet was seated what I thought might be a tad deep in the case. Plenty of room in the magazine though for a growing throat (which I do not see being needed for many years). On this Rifle I torqued the action screws to 45 inch pounds apiece - kind of a test here. The break in went so well with many bullets stacking right on top of the last shot. Even after cleaning in between shots! I was really hyped to shoot my 10 test rounds once break in was done. Even though the wind was now moving at 5MPH+ laterally I watched my wind streamers very carefully and got off ten shots under what appeared to me to be all similar conditions. My two five shot groups at 100 yards measured .580" and .631" again I was absolutely ecstatic with this level of accuracy in the lateral moving wind.

The main purpose of this posting is to relay my continued happiness with the accuracy and the quality of the triggers and barrels used on the LATEST versions of Remington 700's.

There have been a lot of naysayers lurking about recently and spewing their version of Remingtons complete break down in quality and accuracy. My opinion of that type "rumor" is its BULL SHIT! And you can quote me on that!

I have purchased many other Remington 700's in the last couple of years including a 220 Swift VS, a 260 Remington VLS, another limited run Rifle in 17 Remington with stainless 26" Varmint barrel, a 270 Sendero, a 221 Remington Fireball Classic, and a 223 Remington Classic. ALL of these factory Rifles shoot extremely well and were extremely easy to find accurate loads for! No major or even minor problems with any of them! The wood finish on the inside of the stocks was rough on some but again this did not keep them from shooting so well with only their triggers being adjusted.

Also worth mentioning now, in the last few months two of my close friends have bought Remington 700 VLS models in 22-250. Both of these friends also found extreme accuracy and did so quickly with no major modifications to their Rifles at all! My friend from Maple Valley, Washington's Rifle shot two 5 shot groups at 100 yards under .450", as his FIRST two groups! My friend from Yelm, Washington's Rifle shot under .500" inch also right out of the box! Now these Rifles were in the $550.00 range price wise and I think IN TODAYS MARKET that they were a really good deal.

Just some thoughts from SW Montana for your perusal and re-consideration. I have made a couple postings on this subject in the past and now that I have some time on my hands I thought I would give Remington (and Leupold) an atta boy from a real world experience shooter/user of their products!

Long live Remington (and Leupold)

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

PS: I can not wait to get that 223 VLSS back out to the range now that I have it broke in and some fire formed brass to test! I would bet a German Chocolate cake that it will give me a 5 shot group right at or just under .500"!

And that my friends in the real world is excellent performance with a factory stock Rifle and a 12X scope!

Hello Varmintguy,

I would agree with you about Remington still being good shooters, but often you have to help them along.
My last one was a Remington VLS in 6mm Rem. I've got it printing in the .3's now, but found it necessary
to have it glass bedded, barrel floated and do something about that gawd-awful 8lb. trigger pull. It's almost
like we're buying a kit, and have to pay to make it shoot. That's the part I find irritating. For the prices
we're paying these things should be done at the factory. I suspect you do a lot of this yourself. I don't
touch a trigger unit, especially on Remingtons because of the guarantee. I'll keep buying Remington because
I think they are the best of what's out there, but they could do a hell of a lot more for the shooter than
they do. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

VarmintGuy, I also picked up a used 700 VLS in 223 this past fall. I paid $470 for it, which included a scope, albeit a cheap ass BSA. The gun was in mint condition! Not sure why he sold it so cheap, but don't really care. The first day I got it I took it out just to test it. It shot just over 3/4" at 200 yards with the 45gr Winchester white box ammo. With handloads using a 50gr Sierra BlitzKing, I can consistently keep it under .5" at 100yds, with my best being .322". That was using my blurry BSA. I just recently put a new Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 on it, but haven't been able to shoot for groups yet due to weather. I'm guessing they'll get a little tighter since I can now precisely place my crosshairs. Needless to say, I'm happy with mine. I thought about bedding it and floating the barrel, but then came to my senses. It works now, why mess with it?

I guess my only gripe with Remington is their prices these days. I would buy more Remingtons, but it's hard to justify the added cost when folks are getting just as good, or even better accuracy from makers such as Savage and CZ. If I could only get a 22-250 VSSF for the price of, or just a little more than a 12BVSS, I would be all over it. Don't get me wrong, Remingtons are great guns, but are you really getting that much more for the extra $200+ you are spending? Just food for thought... BTW, I'm not here to thump my chest about Savage or CZ either. I don't own either type, but just read quite a bit on them. Hard not to these days.

Cal and Jethro: I tend to agree that Remingtons are definitely not perfect by any stretch. But for decades now all the ones I have bought and shot have been good (or better!) shooters. I wish my record with Ruger Model 77's and #1-B's was anywere near that good a success rate in the accuracy department. I have also bought lots of Winchesters, Sakos, Kimbers and had many custom Rifles built and those cumulative experiences are part of the reason I am so defensive about Remington 700's inherent accuracy! It is obviously difficult for any company to consistently put out good shooters. Remington does a very good (not perfect I am sure) job of this.

And yes some of the fluted stainless 700 Varminters I have seen on shelves - well I just won't pay the money they are asking for them! $750.00 to $800.00 is just to much for one of those. I can harvest a 700 (SA), 722 or XP-100 action add a custom barrel and tune and rig it for my purpose and be certainly satisfied for that kind of money (or just a tad more).

And yes I did notice my 223 VLSS is riding the barrel on the right side of the stock while the left side is apparently just clearing. I can fix that if need be. But yes, for the money I paid the stock should be evenly touching (or spaced) along the length of the barrel.

Along those lines - I have heard rumors from two pretty good sources that Remington is planning on moving all their production away from the unions in the N.E.! To somewhere in Kentucky or Tennessee to get away from the "I do not have to give a crap" attitudes of said union members. Apparently the new 22 rimfire bolt action Remington (Model 504?) is being made at this new plant in this new state right now. And the quality of that product has REALLY impressed the big wigs at Remington! I hate to see anyone lose their job but if some other North American can do the job better then that is the way the market should go. My feelings considered about unions or not.

Jethro be sure and let me know how the Remington shoots with the new high power Nikon scope when you get around to that. And congrats on the great shooting you have already done with that "good buy" Remington VLS!

I have avoided (for 9 years that I know of) stating in open forums what I think about modern Savage bolt action Varmint Rifles. And I better not start now. Let it suffice for me to say - YES it is worth paying a tad more for the Remingtons. Resale value considered you will NOT BE LOSING a dime by buying the modern Remingtons! If you do not like the Remington it is one whole heck of a lot easier to resell the Remington and for a higher percentage of your original investment!

I hate to see anyone lose their job but if some other North American can do the job better then that is the way the market should go. My feelings considered about unions or not.

I have some more ammo for the 223 to test out but it was way to windy today and tomorrow does not look much better.

I will let you know how the next session with it goes.

I just got a new Sinclair catalog today and the bullet seating tool is now $28.75 - my tool is still in the original container from about 9 years ago and it was $17.00 then! Cheap at twice the price in my opinion!

More later

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Jethro,

Varmint guy echoes my sentiments preceisely on Remingtons. You've mentioned that you're from Md. Why don't you travel to some of the gun shows up in Pa. There are still some of the "old fashioned" wood stocked Varmint Specials floating around used in 22-250. Believe it or not they shoot just as good as all the trick stocks and production grade stainless barrels and can be had for a lot less money. I've had a couple of them and they would shoot to your satisfaction.

knobmtn

knobmtn, I haven't been a big gunshow attendee, but looks like I may have to change that. Most of my guns were bought from dealers, so I really have no idea about gun show dealings. I may be looking for another 22-250 soon, so I might take your recommendation. Do you typically treat them like a flea market for guns? Haggle them down and make trades?

To be honest, I like the feel and look of nice wood better anyway. Just haven't seen too many pure varmint rifles out there that don't have the fiberglass or laminate stocks. There are a couple of gunshows coming up soon around here that I may attend. May give me a chance to "practice" before I actually buy one.

BTW VG, I have never had a "bad" Remington. Everyone I have owned I've been very happy with, so you won't see me jumping in on "bad Remington quality" threads. Just the price I don't like. Resale isn't a big deal to me, because I typically buy a gun and keep it. I'm not one to buy/trade/sell every 2 years. Just me though.

Varmintguy, I too am a bit fond of my Remingtons, they all shoot very well, 708 in the 4s, 6mm in the 2s and 3s, 223VS will shoot spectacular,Re;1s and under, 4 shot groups and 5 shots in the 4s, all but the 708 wears a Burris scope, too. And I love adjusting the triggers as they are a breeze to get under 2lbs., my next one will probably be another 708 in the CDL model, topped with another wonderful Burris scope, Euro Diamond 3x-10x this time.

I think why the Remington rifles are a bit more expensive than Savage is due to the fact Rem. doesn't put "crap" stocks on their rifles, Varmint models, that is, I mean, the HS Precision stocks aren't a "cheap" stock, and the stocks on the VLS model are some nice laminated stocks, though they should be freefloated, but will shoot good without the freefloat according to this fellow at work you has one. If Savage put an HS or B&C stocks on their rifles they'd be more too, and then you'd still have that Savage reciever, that's another story. Jay

I concur with Knobmtn. I am in the process of buying a used 222 Rem Varminter. Took it out for a test ride on Saturday and was impressed even with the gummy 7lb trigger and greasy bolt. Shot 6 in the .4s once I got used to the trigger a little and the wind died down. It shows promis and may follow me home one night this week.

Quote:
"Do you typically treat them like a flea market for guns?"

Jethro;
I do that in gunshops so to me there isn't much difference. It just gives me a chance to see more of a selection in what I am looking for than in my local shops.

Do you remember me. We were emailing about a year ago about re-barreling that 17 Rem you had just bought. Did you ever get it to shoot?

knobmtn

Scottinpa: I have an old Remington 700 Varmint Special in caliber 222 Remington. It is one of my all time favorite Varmint Rifles. My Rifle has a Leupold 6.5X20 scope on it and the little plain Jane rig just shoots like a house on fire! Its best ever 5 shot group was .218" according to my loading log. This Rifle maintains P.O.I. year after year and has a sweet trigger and the barrel cleans easily. I should add that my loading log shows the typical grouping on a calm day is in the high 3's and low 4's with Sierra Blitz bullets.

This caliber and Model was perhaps one of the best ever offerings from the Remington Company. Why in the world the folks at Remington decided to discontinue the 222 in this Model is beyond any rational explanation. Someone at Remington simply had their head up their digestive tract outlet and made a stupid decision!

My friend Louie out in the Pacific North West 3 years ago bought one of these Remington Varmint Specials in 222 Remington at the Centralia, Washington Gunshow. The Rifle was literally like new. As I recall he paid #300.00 for it! He mounted a Lyman 25X scope on it and promptly began shooting groups as small as .250" with it using Varmint bullets! Oh how I wish I had seen that Rifle first!

Again I must bemoan the decision by Remington to discontinue the 222 in this Model. Foolish, foolish error to say the least!

If you do not want that 222 Varmint Special I know several people who would be interested in it!

I highly recommend you buy it! And good luck with it if you do!

But it sounds like luck won't be needed just a trigger job!

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Jethro: I have a sickness - I am a Gun Nut! I love to shoot and I love to buy, sell and trade Guns, scopes, ammo and various related gear! Done carefully it can be entertaining, fun and profitable. For instance I recently bought a Remington 788 Rifle in caliber 243 Winchester at a garage estate sale. I paid $200.00 for it including its cheap scope a sling, guncase and some ammo. I promptly sold the Rifle alone for $275.00. The scope went for $35.00 as I recall and the ammo, sling and case are still with me.
So I came out with a free $100.00 bill to spend on my first love - Varmint Rifles and scopes!
I am a very cautious Rifle buyer! One that carries a Wally Siebert bore inspection tool with me everywhere I travel (and of course to every Gunshop and Gunshow I visit).
When buying a Varmint Rifle (especially in the western United States) be sure and evaluate the condition of the Rifling especially carefully. There are some Varmint Guns that look new on the outside but the rifling and leades to the rifling may be heavily worn! This inspection generally takes a good bore light and very good vision or an optical tool like the Siebert Bore Inspection Tool (available from Russ Haydon's Shooters Supply for about $30.00). Careful inspection of the bolt and bolt face on bolt action Rifles can also give a realistic assessment of its amount of use!
Good luck and have fun at the Gunshows! And there is nothing wrong at all with your careful buying and long term ownership of your chosen Rifle acquisitions!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy: May I ask just how did you break in the barrels of these rifles. I've heard/read about all kinds of methods and they tend to vary quite a bit.
Regards.

British: Sure I would be happy to share my barrel break in regimen with you.
First let me relay this to you. Back in the 1960's myself and other Rifle cranks became convinced that barrels (on factory Rifles) needed to be shot 100 to 200 times before they were broke in or capable of consistent or their best accuracy. I myself had several Rifles during the 60's, 70's and 80's that indeed appeared to begin shooting more consistently (accurately) once they were "shot in". I have no proof what so ever that this is a fact but I am sure I owned several Rifles that "pepped up" accuracy wise once they had been shot 100+ times.
The modern day barrel "break in" regimen may be trying to accomplish this "settling in" without the 200 round wear and tear on our expensive Rifles! Anyway I break in new barrels by the following shooting and cleaning regimen. Much of the reason I do this is because people I trust have convinced me that it definitely makes the barrels easier to keep fouling free down the line. And there is some feeling by me and others that it helps obtain better accuracy! Again a tough proposition to prove or disprove but I have been doing it for 8 - 10 years now.
On the other hand I should mention this - I also have a couple of friends who purposely do not "break in" their custom high quality barrels. They claim it is not necessary on the custom barrels. Again a tough proposition to prove one way or the other.
I break in my barrels by taking twenty rounds of ammo out to the range with all my cleaning gear. I take three cleaning rods to save time.
I begin by firing one shot then cleaning. I clean by using 8 strokes (one - down the barrel, two - up the barrel, three - down the barrel and so on up to 8) with a quality wire brush soaked in plain old Hoppes solvent. I apply the Hoppes with an eye dropper to keep my Hoppes solvent fresh and powerful. I then switch rods and dry the bore with proper fitting patches on a jag. Then I use a slotted jag and patch to apply Shooters Choice to my barrel. Then I swab it dry with two or three patches. I then shoot the next shot down the dry barrel. I do this 8 times.
Then I start firing 3 shots at a time then do the same cleaning regimen as above between the 3 shot runs. I do this 4 times and the 20 shots are used up. I then clean after I do short runs (5 to 10 shots) of load testing for the new Rifle for awhile (50+ rounds or so).
It seems to work and I do not have copper fouling that is difficult to remove in my Varminters even when afield shooting longer runs of bullets in a row (like 40 to 50 shots or so).
I do have some Rifles I use Moly-coated bullets in and that is a different story but I do use the same regimen to break them in I just run longer strings afield between Moly style cleaning.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy