My brother and I are having a contest trying to find the load with the most devastating terminal performance on ground squirrels. He's shooting his 25.06 with 75 grn Hp's and I've been using my 243 with 58 grn V-max @ 3900 fps.

I want to experiment with my 7mm Rem Mag and 100 grn Hp's which the books say I can get up to about 3500 fps or with my 300WSM with 110 grn pills at 3600 fps.

What brand and style of bullets at these weights will give the most explosive (visual) performance? Accuracy doesn't have to be a concern because we're only shooting between 100 and 200 yards, we want clouds of red mist.

You want "terminal" performance with a 25-06? 90 grain Winchester Positive Expanding Points(PEP) if you can find them!!!! Not only will they give blood and guts performance but they tend to "launch" varmints!!! I've seen this bullet pick up and throw groundhogs while at the same time making them come "unglued"!!! Winchester saw fit to quit making them!! If you can find some they are bad dudes!!! Another BA 25-06 bullet is the Remington 87 grain PLHP!!! I think they are still available as a reloading component! Those two are bad news on varmints from a 25-06!!! His 75 grain Hornady HP is going to be pretty phenomenal also!!!
As far as your 243 goes, a plain old Speer 75 grain HP will decimate a varmint!!!! Ahole to earbone! Try 36 grains of IMR 3031 and a CCI 200 or BR primer and see what happens!!! Not the fastest of the lot but absolutely fun to shoot varmints with!!! We don't have ground squirrels around here but I would bet that about ay of the "VMax" family would be good medicine to launch one! As far as the 7Mag goes, the 120 grain VMAX is a mean machine!! Been there! Done that!!! It is explosive even down to 2500fps from an XP-100!!!! God knows what it will do(if it holds together) at 3400fps from the Mag!!! Personally, my next foray into "launching" will probably involve the 125 grain BT or the 110 grain VMax from a 300SAUM!!! Now that ought to "launch" something!! GHD

In general the larger calibers will blow stuff up better. The 30-06 is good at it too.

Of the common calibers I would start with a 110 gr bullet in a .30.

Hi all. My buddy and I used to have splatter contests. He had a Win. 70 243 and I used a ruger 77V 25-06. Both handloaded. He used an 87 grain hornady and I used some 117 grain Hornady. Both were really awsome, we were going for (Chunk Seperation) Distance between found parts. He so far holds the record at 124 paces. My 25 made much smaller but more chunks,Like thats a bad thing. Any way they are both great. This was before there were Hornady SX above 22 caliber. The last 75 Grain hornady's I loaded were 59 grains of IMR 4831 and were vaporizing at about 40'. I saw a study in Varmit hunter Magazine a while back stating that California ground squirrels have a much higher strength hide than praire dogs which aids in the awsome blowups from high velocity. Although my 45/70 make a mess of them as well. Good Hunting

Fjold,

I still love that picture on your posts there guy.

As far as just terminal explosion, I am using Speer 52 grain HP, 50 gr Hornady SPSXs, 50 grain Speer TNTs and the Winchester 46 grain HP,.

The latter is in a 223, and the rest are in a 22./250 throttled down to 3400 fps.

The onces in the 22/250 are just either "vaporizing'" sage rats, or else at times they fly 5 to 6 feet in the air, or I have seen one half go 15 to 40 feet in one direction and the other half that much in the other direction.

Some it literally looks like they were turned inside out, and the final thing, after I have been shooting a field, I will walk thru the area I shot, and I just find red parts of squirrels here and there, with no carcass to indicate where this rib cage, or this head came from.

I once was about 15 yds, from where a prairie dog popped out in front of me. 60 to 70 yds to my right was one of the kids that we had taken out prairie dog shooting with us.

He asked if I mind if he shot the PD. I said NO and just stood still. It was funny, but the PD was busy turning its head toward me then Justin.

Justin was shooting one of my 223's a Ruger, with a 45 grain Sierra 45 grain SMP with 28 grains of Benchmark, when it first came out.

This was a rare opportunity to see a prairie dog hit close up, and from the side angle from where the shot originated.

It came about 4 feet in the air, and it blew the PD, back about 30 feet. But as soon as the bullet hit, it went from PD to prairie dog parts.

I could see stuff fly back 30 feet., but when I looked at those 30 feet up close, all you found were little parts, No carcass at all. Just like pieces.

It would have made a good video shot, that is for sure, and would have answered your question with a little proof,, LoL.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I like the 22 CHeetah Mark I with the 52g Berger Bullet.
This is the result at about 4200fps.

http://groovebullets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1518

dave

even WOW backwards is still WOW.
What camera were you useing?

For close range preformance to about 75 yards I loaded some 60gr .312 gold dot pistol bullets into my 308 at 2600. They blew up so fast that they wouldn't exit a watered filled pop can. The things they did too p dogs was just amazing.

The 60 gr. .312" Gold Dot hollow points are mostly hollow and very little point.
At 32acp velocities, they open up like flowers in wet phone books.

In the .223, I have been using 60 gr. .224" Soft points, but after reading Seafire/B17G's posts, I am going to get some 46 gr. Win hollow points for the Blue Dot ground squirrel load.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

I have killed scores of badgers and rockchucks over the years and none seem to get hit harder than with my 25.06. It scoots 75 grain vmax bullets at around 3870fps. Talk about nasty. Talk about fun!

Fjold,
If it wasn't for those darn brothers we would have a lot more money to spend on things like trucks and kids...
My brother and I started the same thing many years ago. To make a long story shorter, he is shooting a Krieger barrelled 7mm and I am shooting a Krieger barrelled 300 Win Mag. We have fired several thousand rounds through these guns at pdogs. I load the 120 gr. V-max for the 7mm. I have found this bullet to give the best results for what you are requesting. I load the 110 gr. V-max in my 300. I am using 78 gr. IMR 4350 with a chrony reading of @3660. My opinion from experience is that you can't go much faster than that. The 110's start coming apart. A barrel that is not as smooth may cause blow-up at even slower speeds. I have blown up pdogs with all of the calibers you mentioned and with out a doubt the 110 V-max gets the nod for producing the results you are looking for. ( it has been nick-named the vaporizer, not by me but the guys I shoot with). I have a grin from ear to ear while shooting this gun.
Have fun. Later

Now I would say this response qualifies for what is popularly called " Xtreme Sports"!!

That is ridiculous until you add in the fun factor you guys are having. Then ridiculous becomes fun, and is no longer ridiculous.

I think I will have to try this out just to see if is as much fun as you say it is.

Cheers and Fun Exploding
seafire

Pdhntr1: Well welcome to the AR Forum and the Varmint Hunting site also!
By coincidence - I have a recurring nightmare regarding Varmint Hunting and the 300 Winchester Magnum! The nightmare goes like this! I am on the edge of a huge Prairie Dog Town with all my gear set up. The trouble is the only Rifle I have there to shoot is a 300 Winchester Magnum! Not only that it is a mint condition pre-64 Winchester Model 70! A valuable gun of which I own a few! So there I am tormented not only by the worry over the valuable arm being put to unlimited use but by the hellacious recoil these Rifles produce! Of ALL the heavy recoiling Rifles I have shot the vicious recoiling of the old light Model 70's in 300 Win. Magnum bothered me the most!
I will admit I am recoil sensitive (aware to a detrimental degree!).
How do you deal with the recoil of your 300 Magnum? Is your Rifle extra heavy or have a muzzle break? Do you use one of those recoil absorbing rests while Varminting?
Again welcome aboard.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

I am sure my 300 would turn your nitemare into a most pleasant dream.

I built the gun myself, except for the chambering. I used a Winchester P-17 action and mated a 1.5 O.D. stainless Krieger barrel. The barrel is 28 inches long and a screw on muzzle break (of the same diameter) goes on the end of that so the barrel alone is about 14 lbs. I built a laminated walnut stock with extra fancy wood with an oversize fore end to fit the barrel. The whole works wanted to flip itself muzzle first off the sand bags so I added some lead in the butt stock to help balance it out. The gun with scope is just shy of 24 lbs. I polished all metal to a mirror finish. My brothers 7mm is the same except for the action, which is a Remington 700 and I built a laminated thumbhole stock for him.

I am sure you can appreciate how I feel when I shoot it. A person would think the recoil would be non-existent (with all this weight) but that is not the case. You are accelerating a 110 grain bullet to 3600+ and Newton still hasn't been proven wrong. Don't get me wrong, there is no kick, just a push. I built the gun to be able to see what you are hitting (the fun of pdogging) through the scope. I am right on the ragged edge of loosing sight picture so you still have to hold on to the gun.

Thank you for the Welcome.

Later.

I ordered the 110 grain V-max bullets for my 300 WSM and thought that I'd get a chance to load up some rounds before my brother comes down this weekend. But of course, I have to go out of town on business tomorrow through Thursday evening so I'll have to wait for the next trip to try them out.
I figure I'll only shoot about 20 rounds at a time to lessen the shoulder trama. They have to recoil less than the 180 grain loads that I have been shooting. :-)

Pdhntr1: Thank you for the explanation and the great description of your Rifles! I wish you both continued happiness with them!

I hope I will not have the "Magnum" nightmare again tonight!

When you say you hold onto your Rifle to keep the sight picture do you mean (like I sometimes do) put a hand on top of the scope or the Rifle to hold it down during the shot? I sometimes do this with my more intense cartridges like the 6mm Remingtons and 220 Swifts and my 6mm Ackley Improved. I do this when no spotter is around and I am in need of spotting the bullet impact for myself. It sometimes works well and sometimes works partially. Like when I get back to the sight picture in time to see a dust cloud but not exactly where it emanated from.

I have always been meaning to test this "hold down habit" of mine at the range to see if this "holding still" or "holding down" of the Rifle affects the point of impact. But I keep forgetting to test this while at the range. I seem to be able to make the hits pretty often when I do this "holding down" in the field so it is not a big problem if at all?

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Varmint guy:

something I have been debating to try is to take the old Cam corder out and set it on a tripod and once I find a varmint, put the camcorder on record and then nail the varmint with the 22/250 or 223.

I think it would be fun to see your hits on a play back, and save it to watch when you get home and in the winter months when you can't go out.

My camcorder is a couple of years old, paid $500.00 for it and you can get nicer ones now for $199.00 or so.

But it has a zoom up to about 460 power I believe.

Now if the varmints would just hold still..... I think it would work better when I am aiming at those out at 200 yds or more.

Anyone else tried this???

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

In a 22 centerfire the best bullet I have seen for destruction is the Calhoon double hollow point. In 6mm either the TNT or Vmaxes. 125 ballistic tips in 308 are ok but do not hold a candle to 120 7MM vmaxes. In my 7MMSTW a 120 Vmax going 3600 fps will obliterate a chuck at 400 yards and under. It will toss a chuck into the air at 800 yards!

From over 40 years of shooting Rockchucks and Groundsquirrels with everything from 17 cal. to 45-70, I find that no matter what caliber you choose, I've always got better explosive results with softpoint bullets over the hollowpoints. A lot of the hollowpoint bullets are match grade and they tend to have thicker jackets resulting in less violent expansion. A 110 gr. 30 cal. Softpoint in a 30-06 @ nearly 3400 fps can really make a varmint vaporize. 22 cal. Blitz, SX and V-max type bullets are pretty good in their own right but sometimes a plain old Remington roundnose softpoint will really perform. We have a Bullberry barrel in 30-30 Ackley Imp. 20 inches long that we shoot .308 Hornady 90 gr. XTP's on a TC Contender Rifle and if you want to see mist, pieces and parts ect. That's a real combination. Deadly to 300 yds on groundsquirrels. A 243 Varminter using the 58 & 65 gr. V-Mxs is no slouch at orbiting varmints either. Godsdog.

Stormbringer, what powder are you using in your 7 STW with the 120 gr bullet to get 3600 fps? I'm still working up loads for mine. Godsdog.

Reloader 22 and 82 grains I believe (pretty sure that is max load in the Nosler manual). Pressures ok in my Sendero.

Mike.

Stormbringer,
I've been using IMR 7828, H1000, RL-25 & H-870 Powders with 162 gr. Hornady SPBT's and 139 gr. SST's and 150 gr SP's. I think with the lighter bullets, AA 3100, IMR 4831 or even some IMR 4350 might be a better choice. I haven't tried RL 22 but I think I'm about too. I have a Savage 112 with a 26" SS barrel and a Brake on it making it about 28' long. Been sniping Jackrabbits, Ravens and Coyotes out to 800 yds with it. It don't kick with the Brake on it and it shoots a 1 1/4" group at 250 yds with 79.8 gr of IMR 7828/162 gr. Hornady btsp @ 3307 with a SD of 10. . I'm using a 4.5X14 Burris Ballisti-plex and really like the reticle. The only problem I had with the Savage was the lousey trigger pull. I took the trigger all apart and stoned the hell out of it and diamond polished it, re-did the spring and got it down to about a pound or so and that's good enough for me. I glassed the stock and floated the barrel too. Thanks for your load info. Godsdog.

I am a ground squirrel eradiccation addict and shoot at a ranch up the 5 from the LA area. Looking for additional places to shoot.

Until I retire later this month I'll keep shooting the Win Varmint value pack stuff. In both my Kimber / 223Rem and Rem 700HBV / 22-250 these 45 gr. factory loads shoot around 1/2" for 3 shots. And re-arrange internals in a most satisfying way. Closer shots make the red mist. I have seen body parts arranged over a 30 ft. area with a 100 yd red mist shot.