Not trying to, but this question might stir one.

In my experience I have not found the .17 calibers all that effective, so I am predisposed to avoid sub .224 diameter chamberings for varmint shooting.

So what are the observed differences between a .223 or .22/250 and the most recent King the .204 Ruger? What makes the smaller, light bullets somehow more effective, paper ballistics?

Yeah, that ought to work!

Go to the Coyotegods website if you want to start a pissing contest over the 17 remington.I have a 17 and a 204 as well as the other calibers mentioned ,they all fill in a niche with what I hunt.If I were to have one it would be the 204 or 22-250.w/regards

quote:

In my experience I have not found the .17 calibers all that effective

quote:

So what are the observed differences between a .223 or .22/250 and the most recent King the .204 Ruger?

For my purposes the .17 calibers are far more effective since a Berger 25gr. HP leaves a pinprick ebtrance and no exit wound on bobcats whose pelts are worth $200++ in the current market.

Have to agree with you, .308Sako. I shoot heavy weights through my ARs in .223 and 75 grainers through a rebarreled .22-250. Rarely do I need to shoot more than once, and never if place my shot apropriately.
On the other hand, a friend of mine with a .204 had to shoot a coon twice, both center hits. Same with a bobcat. Shot placement, while not perfect, should have anchored the cat - but didn't. Had to track down and apply a second dose. A coyote hit with it simply decided he had better places to be, turned around and left.
Lessons learned: 1 Bigger is better.
2 Bigger and heavier is more better.
Lastly, I'ld bet that I can drive a 35 grain, .22 caliber Hornady V-Max fast as the .204...........but can't figure out any reason to.

308 Sako & Dotsix: You both are showing your asses here!
By showing your asses I mean you are telling folks how inexperienced and unaware you are.
I enjoy it when dupes do that!
He-he!
Well, you just go ahead and DRIVE your 22 caliber 35 gr. bullets at 4,225 F.P.S. and the muzzle blast, and recoil you create (remember the mass of the powder charge figures in to the recoil equation - oh, I almost forgot, you TWO WANT to show your asses!) will effectively render any chance you might have of spotting your own hits (like you can do with the 204 Ruger) down to zero!
That is unless you wish to add to your poor decisions by "deciding" to make your 22 caliber Varminter weigh 15 pounds!
And, I wonder how long the brass in that 22 caliber Rifle would last after puffing out some V-Max's at 4,225 FPS - ever hear of throat erosion either of you two ass exposer's?
I have a plethora of 22 caliber precision Rifles and I ain't gonna be runnin NO bullets down their barrels at 4,225 F.P.S.!
I can't figure out any reason to - and it would be foolish and shortsided TO do so.
If either of you are not smart enough to go to a trajectory/ballistic site and compare the 204 to other common Varminting calibers then just stand there - with your asses exposed!
It's something you both do, well!
Or go to the Remington 2,007 catalog and check page 85!
I have several centerfire 17 caliber Varmint Rifles and they indeed do shine - while in the hands of a competent game shooter and field shot!
Don't blame anyone or anything else on Coyotes running away from a hit with a 204 other than POOR MARKSMANSHIP!
I have shot enough Coyotes and large Varmints (Badgers, Fox, Porcupines, Raccoons, large Rock Chucks, feral cats, Badgers and the like) with my 204's and my 17 centerfires to know exactly how VERY lethal they are, on said game!
I also have a close friend who uses his 204 Ruger on Whitetail Deer and is 3 DRT's for 3 shots with his 204 so far!
Doesn't sound like he has experienced any lack of lethality!
I have not shot a Deer as yet with any of my 204's but I am tempted to harvest an Antelope next fall with mine. I am certain a "well placed" shot in the heart/lung area of the Antelope would not let him "decide" to do anything but DIE QUICKLY!
IF there were ANY weakness in the lethality quotient of the 204 Ruger I would espouse it - there ain't, I won't, and anyone that does is simply inexperienced, or a bad shot OR both!
PERIOD!
And to tell it like it appears to be, the 204 Ruger is an extremely accurate cartridge!
Add that accuracy to its high B.C. and superior wind bucking ability and amazingly flat trajectory along with its lack of recoil and slowness to heat a barrel - well those WITH experience, know, when they see a good thing!
The 204 is good thing - AND its superior ballistics are OFTEN printed on "paper"!
I could care less what anyone shoots and favors for Varminting but I do, take exception, when excellent cartridges are "slandered undeservedly" on the basis of inexperience and poor marksmanship!
That is not "predisposition" that is stupidity and poor ability!
To bad that!
Long live the wonderful 17 centerfires AND the 20 cals as well!
They are big performers in small cases!
And I don't know how you convince a couple of nimrods who don't have enough sense to appreciate a good thing when they see it that the 17's AND the 20's are wonderful cartridges?
Maybe its not worth trying to do so, ESPECIALLY to someone, who is apparently just trying to get a rise out of people?
Yeah, there are more positive things to occupy ones time.
By the way 308Sako, I think the "BS" in your "BS stew" stands for BAD SHOOTING!
Long live the small calibers!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

So VarmintGuy, tell us how you really feel.

My next centerfire (and first bolt gun) will be chambered in .204 Ruger.

I believe I have what it takes to shoot it, see that badge over there?

<----------

Seriously, a lot gets said about a lot of things. Usually people figure out what works best for them, even if it doesn't meet with majority opinion. I don't know what will work for me, as I said, it'll be my first try. I picked the 204 because it's new. It's the same mentality as why I don't like the 1911 style pistol or a Harley. They've been doing it the same for aloooooong time. What's new isn't always better and sometimes it isn't any worse either. Or I could be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Taurus Bill:


Seriously, a lot gets said about a lot of things. Usually people figure out what works best for them, even if it doesn't meet with majority opinion. I don't know what will work for me, as I said, it'll be my first try. I picked the 204 because it's new. It's the same mentality as why I don't like the 1911 style pistol or a Harley. They've been doing it the same for aloooooong time. What's new isn't always better and sometimes it isn't any worse either. Or I could be wrong.

Funny, I never had the itch for a Harley but rode Triumph's. As to the handgun's I carried a S&W wheel gun not the 1911.... and now a Sig 220.

Varmintguy, Please see an eyedoc ASAP as the tongue in cheeck was not meant to be my ASS cheeks! I do respect your opinions and was simply seeking same. In defense of your choices you answered my questions rather well, thank you.

Wow

308Sako: Are you saying you take pride in being "different" from the majority?
Or that you take pride in your contrary opinions?
Harleys, M-1911's and 204's are all perfectly wonderful products and you have CHOSEN "a LONG row to hoe" if you are going to convince the majority that they are not!
Whilst you are removing your own head from your own ass - please take the time to kiss your own contrary ass, as you are the only person that I know that cares to do so.
Again to many it is obviously a waste of time and energy to try and convince a "contrary" or someone obviously intent on just raising hackles that a good thing, IS, a good thing!
Your attempt at besmirchment of the 17 and 20 calibers is ineffective, inconsequential and - I think - insincere.
Nuff said.
Long live the 17's and 20's!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S. - TEANCUP, stand back - you may get some splatter on you whenever 308Sako pulls his contrary head out of his contrary ass!
And that, WILL be, a WOW!

VG, It is not my effort to try to convince others that 1911's, Harley's and .204's are not perfectly acceptable choices. Nor do I differ that much from the main stream opinion of them. I posed a question and you took it to the gutter. Please stay there with your opinions and your experience. I'll get by with mine. Have a nice day.

I agree with 308Sako seemed like a quick dive into the gutter. I guess some boys have a hard time when not everyone agrees with them. Since you have a fondness for assholes, remember opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Teancum:

You're the only boy here that has a problem when someone disagrees with you. In fact from your posts I suspect you are a minor. I haven't seen a useful post from you. You are good at starting arguments and then squall and lie when challenged.

I don't give a shit what you do or don't agree with.

Long live the Mule deer!
Long live the coyote!
Long live speedy dogs!

Political Forum Flavoring NOW available on the Varmint Forum...........

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

You're the only boy here that has a problem when someone disagrees with you. In fact from your posts I suspect you are a minor. I haven't seen a useful post from you. You are good at starting arguments and then squall and lie when challenged.

I don't give a shit what you do or don't agree with.

Long live the Mule deer!
Long live the coyote!
Long live speedy dogs!

Well, there you go again!!! Wrong again and again; I hope that's not affecting our relationship. Must still be smartin" from our last little go around. I stand by my words "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one." Please dont think that I think you are an .........that would be ............. incorrect!!!!

No Teancum:

There you go again my friend. Why don't you post someting meaningful like your alleged conversation with Nosler?

Long live the Mule deer!
Long live the coyote!
Long live speedy dogs!

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
No Teancum:

There you go again my friend. Why don't you post someting meaningful like your alleged conversation with Nosler?

Long live the Mule deer!
Long live the coyote!
Long live speedy dogs!

Come on now Bul***** or I mean Buliwyf don't be a daisy.

Teancum:

What do you mean by daisy? Never heard that term before. Is that a child's term?

You were going to contact Nosler and post the results of that conversation and the name of the Nosler rep. Have you completed that assignment yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

What do you mean by daisy? Never heard that term before. Is that a child's term?

You were going to contact Nosler and post the results of that conversation and the name of the Nosler rep. Have you completed that assignment yet?

Now Bul**** sorry I meant Buliwyf

Are you still handing out assigments??? Now now you know you are not authorized to be doing that !!!!

Teancum:

Yes, I am still waiting for your post after you talked with Nosler. You lied about completing your assignment the first time. Now be a nice boy and post the results of your conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Yes, I am still waiting for your post after you talked with Nosler. You lied about completing your assignment the first time. Now be a nice boy and post the results of your conversation.

Now Bul**** sorry again! Darn It!! I meant Buliwyf;

I don't want this thread to become a stubbling block to our relationship.

Teancum:

Don't worry little daisy. It won't. Now then, post you Nosler conversation and make a meaning contribution.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Don't worry little daisy. It won't. Now then, post you Nosler conversation and make a meaning contribution.

Bul****, Sorry I gota stop doing that, Buliwyf

"Daisy"???? Is that a child's term?

Teancum:

You tell me little daisy. It's your term. You write like a little kid - must be getting close to bed time for you.

What did the Nosler rep say to you?

Hey Bul*****, man that's becoming a habit, sorry again.

So long for now, see ya soon.

Teenager:

After you grow-up and get some experience under your belt try to make a post with useful content. It must be your bedtime now so happy dreams little daisy.

It will help you to talk with Nosler. They don't bite little daisy.

Will see you when you're allowed to post again. Happy trails little daisy.

quote:

Funny, I never had the itch for a Harley but rode Triumph's. As to the handgun's I carried a S&W wheel gun not the 1911.... and now a Sig 220.

Hey 308Sako and VG,
When I was younger I test drove several Harleys. In the past few years I've shot several 1911 style pistols. I wanted to like it, I really did, but I just don't get it. I haven't had the chance to shoot a S&W revolver yet but I did shoot a RBH. My Taurus does it for me well enough. I carry and shoot either a .40 H&K Compact or an M9. If Sig came leftie friendly I would have bought one. My buddy has a speed triple which is a blast but I'll keep my 1100G Suzie.

I don't shoose what's contrary merely for the fact that it is. I guess you could call me a passive noncomformist. If that makes me wishy washy at least I choose to be.

"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice" -Niel Peart

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Political Forum Flavoring NOW available on the Varmint Forum...........

Skinner is a flaming liberal.
They don't seem to know what banning guns and hunting is all about.

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.


OH OH another embarassing comment!!! You lied about the varmint bullets coming apart in flight!! If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you. You are a detriment. Call Nosler and get educated on their engineering before you offer public comments. Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. Go to the Nosler web page on Ballistic Tip Varmint and you will find the following information:

"Go ahead, drive 'em out of that Swift as fast as you can. You won't find any speed limits on these bullets to slow you down. Ballistic Tip Varmint bullets thrive on ultra-high velocity loads." Later "The heavy jacket base prevents bullet defromation during firing" and still later "Minimum Impact velocity: 1600 fps; Maximum Impact Velocity: UNLIMITED"

As you can see not everyone agrees with your opinions but we all can have one. So long my friend and happy hunting.

Bul****, oops that's becoming a habit. Sorry

You still haven't contacted Nosler. Go ahead and call them and listen to what they have for you. It'll be good for you.

Teancum:

Look for a book entitled Little "T" Learns To Post that will be very helpful to you. I suspect it has a lot of pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.

*******************************************
OH OH another embarassing comment!!! You lied about the varmint bullets coming apart in flight!! If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you. You are a detriment. Call Nosler and get educated on their engineering before you offer public comments. Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. Go to the Nosler web page on Ballistic Tip Varmint and you will find the following information:

"Go ahead, drive 'em out of that Swift as fast as you can. You won't find any speed limits on these bullets to slow you down. Ballistic Tip Varmint bullets thrive on ultra-high velocity loads." Later "The heavy jacket base prevents bullet defromation during firing" and still later "Minimum Impact velocity: 1600 fps; Maximum Impact Velocity: UNLIMITED"

As you can see not everyone agrees with your opinions but we all can have one. So long my friend and happy hunting.

Bul****, oops that's becoming a habit. Sorry

You still haven't contacted Nosler. Go ahead and call them and listen to what they have for you. It'll be good for you.

***********************************************
Bul****, sorry once again.

That is your assigment: Contact Nosler. Only after that will you be allowed to post here.

Little T:

Yes, you are sorry.

308Sako: You did in fact pose a question THEN I DID in fact answer it!
And in due course I asked you if you enjoy your immature and puzzling personal problem of being "contrary" or if you get some perverse pleasure out of intentionally trying to create "problems"!
You DID not answer those questions there 308Sako!
In fact if do you take some perverse (gutterlike?) pleasure in trying to rile people up by taking bizzarre and undefensible positions please try to analyze and explain to us WHY.
An answer is all I need - it will help me and others deal with you and your types?
Or maybe this question would be simpler for a simple mind like yours to answer - did you make your posting with the INTENTION of trying to create a problem?
Or if you are to stupid to understand that then maybe this question would be easier for a simpleton like yourself to decipher and respond to - are you being contrary just to be contrary?
Avoidance of answering ANY of these simple questions there 308Sako is simply another indication of your "contrariness"!
And for the record I again state the "BS" in your "pot" of contrary "stew" stands for "BAD SHOOTING"!
The 17 centerfires and the 20 centerfires are wonderful and successful cartridges with hundreds of thousands of devotees!
Long live the 17 and 20 caliber centerfires!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.

*******************************************
OH OH another embarassing comment!!! You lied about the varmint bullets coming apart in flight!! If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you. You are a detriment. Call Nosler and get educated on their engineering before you offer public comments. Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. Go to the Nosler web page on Ballistic Tip Varmint and you will find the following information:

"Go ahead, drive 'em out of that Swift as fast as you can. You won't find any speed limits on these bullets to slow you down. Ballistic Tip Varmint bullets thrive on ultra-high velocity loads." Later "The heavy jacket base prevents bullet defromation during firing" and still later "Minimum Impact velocity: 1600 fps; Maximum Impact Velocity: UNLIMITED"

As you can see not everyone agrees with your opinions but we all can have one. So long my friend and happy hunting.

Bul****, oops that's becoming a habit. Sorry

You still haven't contacted Nosler. Go ahead and call them and listen to what they have for you. It'll be good for you.

***********************************************
Bul****, sorry once again.

That is your assigment: Contact Nosler. Only after that will you be allowed to post here.

Bul****, oops still missing the correct spelling. Sorry

As part of your assignment you will also need to furnish the name and number of the person you talk to at Nosler to enable us to confirm that your conversation took place. Have a nice day.

Little T:

You haven't learned to post yet. Yes, you're still missing and you're still sorry.

Interesting comment on the 1911. I have one, and I love it. So much so that if I had the means I would get another one. My father on the other hand, has a Springfield XD 40. Loves it, shoots it well, and wouldn't trade me for my 1911 if I threw in $400. But I hate that XD. It doesn't feel right to me, and I can't shoot with a crap with it.

We both are different, and have different tastes. Same with the sub .22 calibers.

I have shot a .204, and while it was ok, I am sticking with my .223. Not that the .204 won't kill praire dogs, but because I am more comfortable and familer with a .223 or 22-250.

Use what you like.

Jeez, this has got to be the most confusing thread I've seen to date in the Varmint forum...

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:
Not trying to, but this question might stir one.

In my experience I have not found the .17 calibers all that effective, so I am predisposed to avoid sub .224 diameter chamberings for varmint shooting.

So what are the observed differences between a .223 or .22/250 and the most recent King the .204 Ruger? What makes the smaller, light bullets somehow more effective, paper ballistics?

Fairly reasonable request... dunno the answer.

Based on my experience, 17's are great for foxes if it's worth keeping the skins - IIRC, Oz was the largest buyer of 17 Rems when fox skins were worth $$$... and yep, they'll kill other animals, but no better or worse than a 223. Difference in trajectory at reasonable ranges is marginal at best - same wiegt bullet, smaller calibre automatically increases BC (all else being equal) so that stands to reason.

Personally, I'd rather put a 55g bullet into a cat at 200 than a sub calibre... as someone said - bigger seems to be better.

Re the 223 v 22/250, I use a 223, a mate uses a 22/250 - when we hunt, neither of us can detect any significant difference between the two - the 250 has a 'slightly' flatter trajectory, but under field conditions, it hasn't mattered to either of us - we've even swapped rifles, and still nailed animals...

Can't personally comment on the 204, but I know a few people who like it, and an equal number who think it offers no significant, practical advantage over other rounds...

HTH

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
308Sako: You did in fact pose a question THEN I DID in fact answer it!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes, VG you did, and these were your first words in that answer:

"308 Sako & Dotsix: You both are showing your asses here!
By showing your asses I mean you are telling folks how inexperienced and unaware you are.
I enjoy it when dupes do that!
He-he!"

Shots I've missed...

How is anyone supposed to take either of us seriousily with that sort of communication. I have read many of your past posts and found them of value on occasion. However, for you who do not know me, nor my experience to condemn me as: inexperienced and unaware is ludicras. Apparently you are now calling my shots when you say:

"I could care less what anyone shoots and favors for Varminting but I do, take exception, when excellent cartridges are "slandered undeservedly" on the basis of inexperience and poor marksmanship!"


Yet we have never been afield together and no that is not an invitation to witness each others prowess. Now before either of us is kidnaped and forced to write in place of Jim Zumbo, let's call it a day. I await the civilized reply.

308sako,

Don't get too worked up over VG he shows his ass when he post almost everytime. According to him heis the only one with any exp., and can shoot. He goes out and shoots a few rounds and its gospel, I learn somthing new everyday, and when I quit learning I hope they will be putting dirt in my face.

I like using 22 cals and 25 cals for varmints because they work everytime I use them. I dont have any small game like G.S. or P. dogs to shoot, so maybe I'm bias. I shoot mostly yotes, fox, feral dogs and cats, feral hogs. IMHO a 17 HMR will not cut it no matter what. I have shot a ton of varmints with 22 hornet, 221 fireball, 222, 223, 25-06, 257 rob. they all worked great. If I were running pelts maybe I would look at it different, but I'm not it works for me and I like it!

I have a 17 HMR and a 17 rem. The HMR at 80 plus yards on dogs and yotes, and pigs sucks. It is a great shooting gun but does not have enough bullet weight IMOP. The 17 rem is just like shooting a 223 with the same about of muzzle blast, so why give up bullet weight and pen.

Just my 2 cents. I guess back to the grind stone.

505ED