Hey Ohlsen.
Many thanks my friend, after reading your post I decided to take one more run at Leupold. Low and behold there must of been a management change, they admitted that the 8.5X25X40's had issues and said they'd replace em.
Now that goes a long way towards leading me back to the fold.
Only took 7 years but at least they finally owned up. Now I intend on letting by-gones be by-gones and telling everyone of the positive change in policy. Heck if they'd have done this when the issue first came up I'd probably have an extra 15 gold rings in my collection.
Said they'd swap straight across for the VXIII 6X20X40 with the one inch tube or for a hundred each I could get the VXIII 6X20X40's with a 30MM tube (I think that's what I'll do, I like the side parallax adjustment very much) was that what they did for you?
Well I think I'll post this in a fresh thread as well, I bitched loud enough when they stiffed me, figure I oughta be just as loud when they try to do the right thing.
Thanks again Ohlsen, you made my day.

Sharpsman: You make my point!

Exactly!

Go to any Bench Rest venue and read the list of winners and the equipment they use! I did so recently and the top 40 shooters in two classes (20 shooters in each) used 36 Leupold products and 4 other brands!

And I will issue the same warning to you as I have to others! Do not dinegrate a whole company and a whole line of scopes because of some anectdotal citation!

I use Leupold products year round and in some of the most demanding and brutal conditions there are! I have done so for more than 40 years! I have owned at least many many dozen Leupold scopes! I have also sold hundreds of them and I have never sent one back for factory service that I owned. I have sent two back over the decades for repair that I sold to customers. They both were back IN LESS THAN TWO WEEKS! Repaired perfectly! One scope had been abused and in the other the crosshair broke!

I am very familiar with the Leupold line, factory policies, their history, and their reputation among shooters who do SHOOT a lot! I just finished a long Big Game season here in Montana and virtually Hunted from September 1st through November 28th for Mule Deer, Whitetailed Deer, Bear, Elk, Mountain Goat and Antelope! I visually check all the Hunters I come across and Hunt with and the Leupold products I saw afield outnumbered ALL OTHER BRANDS in a ratio of 11 to 2!

Now you may wish to "bash" Leupolds line but I know A LOT of very savy and very performance oriented Hunters of both Big Game and Varmints and the overwhelming majority of THEM prefer Leupold products. You may disagree with their choice but maybe you are simply not familiar enough with harsh conditions, repeatability needs (inherent accuracy!) and heavy recoiling Rifles to understand why this is true and HAS been for many decades!

Yeah I would love to make a good deal on those 8.5x25x40mm Leupolds! I am heading for Bozeman Saturday to return another S&W revolving pistol in caliber 17 HMR - that is obviously flawed and defective! Yet I will in no way shape or form condemn the whole S&W line. I own way to many of them to do such a short sighted thing!

Yeah I paid $529.00 a S&W 8 3/8" barreled stainless revolver in 17 HMR and it came to me new from the factory with no rifling in the bore what so ever! The bullets keyholed at every range from 7 yards to 50! Someone (no one!) shot that pistol at the factory and should have caught that defect - and again I will not condemn the S&W Model 29 S&W pistols because of this! That would be silly!

Then the replacement revolver shoots 8" groups at 25 yards with a tried and true scope (and larger groups with no scope!). The factory rep declared it should shoot 1" groups at that range with a scope and I should send it back. I intend to try the S&W folks once more (it took 4 1/2 months to get the first pistol replaced by the way - compare that to Leupolds turn around time!) and I am sure my next 17 HMR revolver WILL revolve and perform much better!

Again I think it not appropriate to condemn all Leupolds because of some perceived shortcoming.

I am actively seeking three Varmint style scopes right now. If I get a really good deal on a used Weaver V-16 or a Sightron or a Leupold I will jump on it! I would feel much more secure buying the used Leupold though!

Money spent on Leupold scopes is money well invested! Doubt me? I just returned from a huge Gunshow near Seattle, Washington. 1,000 tables and many thousands of attendees. My table mates were selling scopes. The Leupolds sold and the other brands sat! I was actively seeking scopes at the time and was waiting for a "good deal" on high end variable scopes. Well all the Leupolds sold right out from under me! Including Leupold 4x12's, 4.5x14's, 6x18's and 6.5x20's!

The Leupold scopes move and move quickly even when strongly priced! The other brands sit!

No I have never once said Leupolds are perfect - EVER! I am saying they perform VERY well, they are a good investment and the factory service is second to NONE!

I wonder why they are the best selling scopes in the world and why so many shooters use them for Hunting and target shooting of all kinds? Maybe everyone is making the same mistake year after year?

I don't think so!

Long live Leupold.

Hold into the wind

Varmintguy

VarmintGuy I'm gonna take one shot at explaining where I'm coming from and if it don't work it's "bravo-yankee".
I don't really know where to start cause the issues here cover a broad spectrum so this will probably be long, sorry. I'm gonna do my best to be honest in a genuine wish to resolve some things, straight shit, from the heart.
This site and others I frequent are filled with guys that gather to share ideas and experiences and further our enjoyment of the shooting sports we all love. One thing I've learned over the years is that whether a guys been shooting and reloading at an advanced level for thirty years or just picked up his first .22 if I listen to him I can probably learn something. His opinions might vary from mine and and his likes and dislikes might be totally divergent but I'm ok with that cause I'm secure enough to know that even if we disagree, ultimately I get the choice to do it my way if I chose.
We got into it a while back and I lost my temper which is something I've learned over the years does nothing but get me in trouble and cause problems. I openly apologised and promised my self not to let it happen again, and I'm not gonna. As I stated I come here to share ideas and have fun, fighting with someone isn't fun, and if I have to argue and fight to follow a post I'll vote with my feet. It's just no fun!
I'm not gonna sit here and try and tell you how you see things but I can't honestly believe you'd enjoy this site if everyone of us saw every issue exactly the same. How boring would that be? In my opinion Dale it's the idea sharing that makes it interesting! Divergent opinions are how we learn new things.
Over the last few years it's been my perception that because you moved to Montana a few years back and have time to hunt a lot you feel justified in pronouncing judgement on every idea, product or opinion like it came down off the mountain from a flaming bush. Dale I've lived out here all my life, I'm a one dimensional guy all I've done since I was 4 was fish and hunt. I started reloading in 1969 while going to college on the GI bill, couldn't afford ammo or food and the 5 of us returning vets that lived together were hungry, I fed us!
Without the two of us lay our johnsons on the table I'll just say that my collection of long range varmint rifles covers all the bases. The only reason I bring all this up is to assure you that I've shot enough to have a valid opinion of my own about my experiences and products etc. If you don't agree that's fine I'd actually like to hear why cause that's how I see the other side of things and learn. But for another guy to hijack the thread bullying and insulting people because his opinion varys from theirs is boring and incredibly arrogant. Again no fun, I'm outa there.
My experience with those two Leupold scopes is what it is, I'm not gonna beat a dead horse cause frankly they aren't the real issue here. The real issue is the manner in which people are treated and whether or not we are all here to share ideas and have some fun possibly learning something while were at it, or if the real payoff is in the fighting and arguing. For me at least it isn't. I won't be bullied and trust me I've done enough fighting already to last a lifetime.
Now there it is. I'd like to be able to get off these kinds of topics and talk about why were all really here, "GUNS"!
If it's possible maybe we can all look at our own backyard and if we see anything that needs rearanging do it. I assure you I will. Have a good one.

I'll have you know my wifes an old woman, and there ain't no way she'd put this much energy in to an argument she's way too smart.

Good point, I shoulda thought a that. But your right, especially in the 30MM tube where extra range is available, right there in front of ya where you can read it. HMMM??

I was just going to edit my post - I didn't want to sound arrogant, but too late.

Anyway, you get the pic I guess. I have screwed up the rotation count before, so I know.

Actually I sent em in today.
Went with one 30MM long range with the Varmint Hunter reticle and one 6X20X40 EFR with a duplex specifically for running rimfires through their paces. Probably should have gone with the 30MM's on both but then I loose the flexibility of just swaping scopes around due to the rings being different. I'll probably end up regretting it after using a 30 but the dies been cast now.
Sure appreciate your posting, after all the calls in the past I'd a never done it again with out reading of your experience. Hope the new ones are as good as the old 6X20X40's no reason they shouldn't be but I'm a tad gun-shy.
Do the new finger adjustments work as well as the old target turrets? I like the fact they are lower, that's how the Weavers are and they sure don't get in the way as much as those big honkers on the Leupolds. Well, thanks again.
I still can't believe they finally did the right thing, kinda impressive actually.

Get the 30mm ones, you'll like them!!! I've got one so far. When I traded that time these new 30mm ones weren't out. I've got a target version of the 8.5-25x that's not quite as bad as the other one I had, but it's still dark, it works, but it's dark. Maybe I'll have to call Leupold!

The new 6.5-20x 40mm with the 30mm tube is really nice. You get rid of that adjustable objective and you can mount your scope down lower. I'm using TPS "LOW" rings and Warne bases

montdog,if you got it with the varmint hunters reticle(I did) you won't need the big turrets.