I have a 223 rifle that I'm making, and I can't decide on twist rate, wheather it should be for a heavier or lighter bullet. Cause with a lighter bullet I have higher speeds, but a heavier bullet
would have better wind deflection, (i'm going to be shooting at around 300 yds. so wind is a big issue.) If any body could help me on this it would be great. And what is about the maximum distance a 223 can still make a clean kill on a ground hog?
skinner

I shoot an AR15 with a 24" 1 in 9 heavy barrel that puts 50 grain VMAX under an inch very consistantly. With this twist I should be shooting 69 grain bullets but haven't had the chance to experiment with them yet. If it was my rifle, I would go for the quicker twist, you will more than likely have more flexibility in what weight you put through it. I'm not sure how big ground hogs get, but my longest shot with the 50 grain was just under 400 yards on a Rock Chuck.

Squirrel Skinner,

Since you state that you will be reaching out to 300 yards, I would recommend against a slow trist barrel designed for the 40-45gr pills. The 223 can produce some impressive velocities with these bullets but at 300 yards they will disappoint you with on game performance.

Also, I would not go with the fast twist 1-8 or 1-9 twists designed for the 69-80 gr VLD bullets unless you are going to punch paper instead of varmints. If your going to shoot groups by all means go with the fast twist which will turn the 223 into a +500 yards shooter.

Problem is that a 223 is on the marginal side in both velocity and energy for the larger varmints like ground hogs and coyotes, they work great when used carefully but can also be vey poor killers.

You need to get as much velocity as you can with an explosive expanding bullet with good B>C numbers. In my mind, for the range you are wanting to hunt, the 55gr V-Max and Blitzkings would be your best bet. Stay away from the 1-14 twists as these are very marginal with 55 gr bullets. Go with either a 1-12 or 1-10 if you can find one. The 1-12 will be the easiest to find though and it works great with 55 gr pills in the 223.

They shoot flat out to 300 yards when fired to arounf 3400 fps out of a 26" pipe and they expand like there is no tommorrow. The Ballistic Tip is a great bullet but from my testing and hunting, it is a bit to tough for the velocity of the 223 at long range. The V-Max and Blitzking are better at 223 velocities.

As far as how far the 223 will cleanly kill a hog, that has more to do with you then the 223. I have seen chucks take shots from 7mm STW's a bit far back at less then 100 yards that were a bit to far back and allowed the chuck to make it to his den.

I have also seen chucks rolled off rocks at +300 yards with a single 20gr V-Max from a 17 rem with a solid front shoulder and head shots.

You hit a chuck or hog solidly in the front half of his body and you will have a dead chuck even out to 500 yards. The problem is putting that bullet in that spot. You will have to answer that question for yourself.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Like 50 said go for a 1-12 would be the best choice IMO. With the 223 I shoot it has a 1-12 and it does great with 60g bullets.

My vote is 50gr .223's. If I want to stretch the distance on a chuck I'd get a .22-250 and shoot 55grs at around 3,600fps, for extreme distances( to me) I have a 13lbs .25-06 shooting 100grainers at a little over 3,300fps. My .223 shoots 50gr V Max's at a little over 3,300fps. I've shot chucks under good conditions out to about 300 yrds. That's a self imposed limit,not based on ballistics. It's based on a desire to humanely dispatch the critter,with consideration given to delivered energy combined with knowing how tuff chucks. I like hunting em, I don't hate em! When ever a discussion comes up about maximum possible distance, whatever the quary I figure somethings about to get shot in the butt. Fiftydriver makes an excellent point, it's hitting the spot! When he says "You have to answer that question for yourself." I hear " A lot of practice at the range" . For some guys, max .223 distance is probably 500 yrds. I wish I could say that was me , but alas it isn't. In the famous words of Clint Eastwood, " A man has to know his limitations! ".---Shoot Safe---montdoug

It's been my experience that the fast twist barrels will still shoot the lighter pills just fine. In fact, many of the MOST accurate loads out of my 1-7, 1-8 and 1-9 twist barrels are with 52 and 53 grain bullets.

The tighter spin would give you some added flexibility to my thinking but to reiterate what others have said, the .223 runs out of gas at some point and doping the wind and range is as limiting a factor as any.

Redial

Alot of fast twist .223 s shoot the lighter bullets just fine. People rave about the way the heavy barrel Savages shoot , and I believe most of them have a 1 in 9 .

I think my little Ruger stainless also has a 1 in 9 , and it shoots 50 gr V-max or 40 gr ballistic tips well under 1 MOA .

My feeling is a 50 gr V-max will maximize energy delivery and trajectory out of a .223 at the longer practical ranges . With a max load of H4895 , it is not all that slow either.....

I have 223s with 1/12, 1/9, 1/8, and 1/7 twist barrels and have found in most cases that it's the quality of the barrel and bedding that determines the accuracy. I can say that 50 gr. Rem PLHP in a 1/7 barrel don't make it to the 100 yd. target, but work just fine in the 1/9 barrel. I'd opt for a 1/9 barrel to give you the best bullet selection. And if you're a member of the RPM bullet school of thought, faster would be better as well.

Guess I'll be the odd man out here-

Time of flight has as much to do with wind drift as good BC's. So, in theory, a lighter bullet launched faster will have only marginally more wind drift at, say, 300 yards than a heavier bullet with higher BC's.
If you are talking much beyond 300 yards, then the problem becomes more accute as velocity is scrubbed off.
I find that the 35/40 grain Vmax and ballistic tips work great launched at 22-250 and 223 velocities. However, beyond about 350 yards, the 223 definitely runs out of steam. It will still kill just fine if the hit is good, but won't be as spectacular as a heavier load.
So, with this reasoning, just about any twist from 1/14 to 1/9 should work great for your rifle. My choice would be a 1/12 if you can get it, but I would shoot the 40 grain BT's and not worry too much if my barrel was a 1/12 or 1/14 twist.
I would be more concerned about which bullet my rifle shot better than what weight was being used- at least for varmints. My 22-250 Rem. 700 Varmint for some reason won't shoot heavier bullets worth a darn, but it shoots the 40 grain ballistic tips into tiny little clusters at around 4180 fps. Results on chucks at 400 yards and beyond is pretty spectacular- and this with a 1/12 factory twist barrel.
You make your choice and you takes your chances- Sheister

Sheister, makes a good point, all our talking is just wind if a rifle doesn't like a particular bullet, in reality the rifle decides. The exception to that of course is if a smith throats a rifle to a particular bullet, that drops the chance factor considerably.---Shoot Safe---montdoug

I own both 1 in 12,(Remington, Winchester and Colt) and 1 in 9, (Savage and CZ). I would go with the 1-9, no question. The most basic reason is the slower twist will not shoot the heavy bullets and the fast twist will accuratly shoot most weights from 40-75 grain. The only bullets you give up by using the fast twist are some of the thin skined varmint bullets like the Speer TNT and Hornady SX. Some of these bulets will actually come apart in flight with the fast twist. However the newer Ballistic tip and other plastic tip bullets hold togeather very well. With all due respect to those that express the idea that the 223 is a 300 yard gun I would say that a PD showing himself at under 400 yards is in serious trouble. I have taken several at over 500 yards with the 223. A few years ago one of us took two off the same mound at 524 yards with two shots. The record with the .223 for our group is 596 yards. We are serious shooters. Two of the guys are retired weapons training Offices with one of the nations largest SDs and have been through the FBI sniper course more than once. We use laser range finders, benches or shooting mats, sand bags, range cards and good scopes to extract the maximum potentional from the 223. As to stopping power, a PD hit with a 69 grain moving at 2000 fps has been hit hard. The effects are about like being hit with a 40 grain 22 mag HP at 100 yards. PDs can be tough, I once blew one nearly in half with a .270 with a 100 grain varmint load and watched him crawl doun his hole while I tried to clear a jam. However,I'm sure he did not live as long as the last Deer I shot with a 7mm mag. I hope this is not taken as a one ups man, "I can pee further than you can pee" posting. I just firmly believe the fast twist 223 is underrated.

depending on your self-imposed yardage limit, I'd pot for the 1-12 version. While the 1-9 may shoot just as accurately as the 1-12, safe velocity should be higher w/ the 1-12 twist. And if all your going to do is shoot varmints, that's how i'd go. Most bullet manufactures varmint bullet to 55 gr. I think Hornady makes a 60 gr v-max though.
I opted for a 1-13 twist Kreiger 24" barel on my AR 15. I said this is a 400 yard rifle that I'm going to shoot varmints with. While its capable of killing varmints at longer ranges the range estimating and wind doping are my limiting factors for shooting longer ranges. Therefore built it/buy it for a specific task and don't look back.
My AR is hell on praire dogs out to 300 yards- I'd even go as far to say 80% hits to that far. After 300 yards, they drop like rock, so I bring out the 22-250 or the lightning flat/fast 30" barreled 6-284 w/ the 1-8 twist.
Good luck w/ whatever you decide.