It seems that the ranks of the H&R Ultra and NEF single shot owners are growing, at least so around here...

I wanted to mention a few things that might be helpful, and would ask that any of you who have helpful tips do the same...

First, there's the common issue of empty casings failing to eject. You open the action after firing and the case is stuck. Another member here had a good idea, which was to fashion a brass mandrel of the proper size, and simply drop it down the muzzle and allow it to jar the case loose.

According to H&R, however, if you keep the chamber clean and *dry of oil*, you shouldn't have ejection problems. These chambers are tight (probably one of the reasons these rifles shoot so well). It seems that the action design has a tendency for oil and/or solvent to drip from inside the receiver, coating the breech face, and then getting into the chamber. The oil, in a sort of "hydraulic effect" holds the case in the chamber too tight for the ejector to expell it.

I've been keeping my .223's chamber dry, and even swabbing it out with a little alcohol before going to the range or field, and have had no ejection problems since.

Nickel plated cases seem to eject much more easily than regular brass cases, but again, if you keep the chamber clean and dry the brass cases should do fine.

Now, the issue of barrel fit. I've seen a couple of the H&R/NEF single shot rifles which could use some tightening of the barrel lock up. Check your rifle to see if there is any looseness of the lock up which allows the barrel to be wiggled up and down vertically, even though the latch is locked.

There should be no vertical play in the lock up at all. If there is, you'll get flyers (probably vertical flyers) when the barrel moves from one extreme to the other.

To tighten the lock up, the best thing to do would be to return the rifle to H&R and have them improve the lock up. Another possibility would be to peen the locking ledge on the barrel a bit in order to raise the ledge just enough to tighten the lock up. I would just hold the barrel in one hand, and peen the ledge (with a hammer). The cushioning effect of your hand will prevent any damage to the chamber during this operation.

Here's a big one:

Weaver rail screws working loose. I've seen loose Weaver rail screws on *new* rifles. I think it's best to remove the Weaver rail (hex screws hold it on) and degrease the underside of the rail and the top of the barrel where the rail fits. Flush out the screw holes with degreaser, and degrease the screws as well. Use thread lock during reassembly. I even lay a bead of thread lock under the entire length of the rail.

I'll bet better than half of the H&R's in use out there have loose scope rails...

If any of you would like to share advice and experience with these rifles, please do so...

Dan Newberry
green 788

Mr. Dan hit all the high spots so I don't get to pontificate much, yet. My rifle is still "IN ROUTE".

The only thing I can add is to get steel scope bases. I've used aluminum ones for many years on rimfires and keep buying them, but once they get loose I've found the only way to get them to work right again is glue them on. They are so cheap I just replace them. Now, I do the cleanup just like Dan recommends, then use J&B or Acraglass with steel or aluminum powder mixed in to make a bed and glue the bases on. I don't use Weaver aluminum bases for anything above a rimfire.

Let's not get a base war goin here, use what you want. I know the scope tubes are mostly aluminum and will go before the bases and they've been used on everything from 17's to 600's, no argument here. As soon as I get my NEF in I will measure the diameter and checkout what other rifles have a similar curvature and look for a steel base either single or two piece and put them on my rifle barrels. I will post what rifles they came from so you can use them if you wish. I will bet Weaver has some steel bases that will fit, probably Remington, Win, Sav, and Howa fronts will work and you can use a piece of 1 3/8 (1.375") dowel and sandpaper to fit them or just bed with JB or Acraglass. I get JB in the shop size, 10 oz, at Shucks auto and use it for fixing dam near everything.

Everyone, start emailing or snail-mailing request for mag size cartridges, more caliber requests, longer barrels, pistols,you know,your favorite want thing. Maybe we can get some of the T/C barrel makers interested or just some good latheman and start a new cult. CULT OF THE NEF, CRAZY H'ers, NEF RULES, LONG LIVE SINGLE SHOOTERS, SINGLE SHOOTERS HAVE BIG GUNS, SINGLE SHOOTERS ONLY NEED ONE....whoops, sorry, been a long day. Makatak

Mak,

If you do learn of other scope bases that will fit these rifles, I'll be happy to hear it. I haven't given any thought to replacing the Weaver rail with a steel one--but you're right, the steel ones are much better...

I think I'll be getting my old .243 Ultra back on Monday--my buddy who just "couldn't live without it" traded it in to a local shop! No more favors for that guy! I had the trigger down to a sweet 2 pounds on that one too...

I like the novelty of the H&R/NEF single shots... I like their unassuming nature, and the fact that once they are broken in and properly fed, they'll blow minds with how tight they shoot.

Add to that the prospect of getting other barrels for your action (and yes, I'd like to see them turn out some magnums) and you have, as you say, the potential for a cult following.

green 788

MAKATAK,

I'd add to the Weaver base input to take care of the base overhang issue. Some fill in the gap with epoxy, or putty. I just cut the darn overhang off completely and used extension rings to mount the scope. I've not looked at all models of the NEF & H&R so I don't know if it (overhang) is on all models, or only some. I get better groups since I cut the darn overhang off.

By the way MAK, why did you change your handle?

Dave

One thing I'd bring up is the need to do something about the 'liability' trigger that comes on the NEF/H&R's.
Mine was somewhere in the 7 pound range when I got it. I sent it to them and they dropped it to just a tad under 3 lbs. and made it much sharper.
Groups dropped from 2.5" to less than 1" in my .223.

I get a kick out of folks seeing my $200 rifle w/ the Leica Riflescope on it!

GO NEF!

My 25-06 in a handi-rifle has the ejection problem too. The action is wiped clean. I have to use a rod to knock the case out alot. The brass has a very slight bulge around the base of the case. Any help would be appreciated. By the way it is a true tackdriver. Just wish it would eject the shells.

Are you handloading it trophy?

Im in the process of looking also for a Leupold,Redfield type mount system for my Ultras also,, this would only make a wonderful shooting Rifle better,,,and as for the Magnum calibers,,my dream caliber would be 264 Win.Mag. in a 28``Heavy Barrel,,would carry like a 24`` Bolt gun and kill like Lightning,,,yep Ive found a maker for a barrel,,but not cheap,,hope Marlin is looking over our post,,perhaps they will catch on to what is a good following here.,,, ,,,,Roger 4

Well I offer only my advice as just that, advise. Proceed at your own risk. LOL
I had a NEF in a 30-06. It was one of the early ones and it suffered the same ejection problems so common in these. I "stretched' the ejector spring just a 'little' bit and WALAA.. It ejsected every ctg after that, even my handloads. Here is were the "at your own risk" comes in. I said I stretched it just a littel, well now I really have to watch the eyes as the ctgs come out at about 100mph!! They will fly a good 25'. I left it that way and shot the piss out of it and then traded it to a friend who still has it. I may have stretched it a bit to far but it works and I still have both of my eyes.
Take it for what its worth.

best,
Jason

Yes I handload for it. I'll have to try the stretching the spring thing. What really sucks is when it is a loaded round. Now that smarts!

How long does it take H&R to do the factory trigger job? Is it hard to do yourself?

Excellent Thread ! And from My perspective very timely. My brothers will shoot with me but don`t share my fanatisism to the point of buying the equipment. I was considering a companion rifle for my Savage 10 FP .223 as a loaner(That would not stop me from enjoying it myself).
I was considering the Nef Handi Rifle, Your enthusiasm has convinced me it is a wise choice.All equipment has some flaws and knowing what they are and how to overcome them is very helpful.
Now all I have to decide is which model and in what caliber.
Thanks

Hey guys, I got my NEF for Christmas last year, wife really loves me.....I have had same problems with ejection (30.06) and found that, as stated, keeping the chamber free of oil was the cure. I have had the rifle open on me just after the shot, but feel that was something I did wrong. I would LOVE to see a .35 Whelen and a 6.5 swede barrel for the NEF. Next barrel will have to be the .223 for yotes.....The .06 would work, but the local farmers get a little worried and I plan on keeping them happy....

Just to let you guys know that Weaver makes Steel bases they sell for aropund $8.00 each at Midsouth catalog . didnt see a listing for the ultra varmint rifles but you should check with weaver they may have them.

Regarding the opening of the action on firing...

I experienced this with the .243 I was working with, and the solution was to full-length size the brass. The cases must fit *completely* flush into the chamber, so that the action locks positively when closed.

On trigger jobs...

It's a difficult rifle to do the trigger yourself on. I've done two so far. I used a heavy punch to drive the action pins out of the receiver (they come out only one way, from right to left--in other words, set the punch on the right side of the receiver and drive the pin through)...

These pins are *very* tight, and the propensity for the punch to slip is a concern. The small pin at the forward portion of the trigger guard is a tough one as well. I would imagine the factory uses a jig in a vise to drift these pins in and out.

I cut a small dummy pin from a nail, about the same diameter as the large pins, and about 5/16" long to use to hold the trigger assembly together as it is reinserted into the receiver. The action pin for that location should push the dummy pin on through during reassembly.

Don't change the angle on the trigger ledge, or the angle on the sear. Just polish lightly until smooth. You can shorten the sear engagement length on the hammer, and polish that ledge to remove creep. Then take a little tension out of the hammer spring by putting a reverse bend in it--not too much, or you'll experience misfires. When you put the rear action pin back in, you'll have to use a small screwdriver, inserted from the rear of the receiver (you will have removed the stock with a 9/16" socket on an extension) to lift the fulcrum point of the hammer spring enough to allow the action pin to slip under it.

All in all, I wouldn't recommend anyone attempting this unless you're very familiar with trigger work, and the inner workings of such actions. I didn't enjoy doing either of these triggers, finding the experience only marginally more tolerable than a phone conversation with my ex-wife.

If you merely want to remove any creep that may be present, you can use the old .45 auto trick of placing an ice cream stick under the hammer, and pry up slightly on the hammer during dry firing. Several repetitions of this will smooth the sear engagement points up noticeably. This works by increasing the friction on the sear, and the trigger "burnishes" itself to some degree...

The 3 pound H&R factory freebie is an attractive option.

green 788

My SB2-323 223 finally got here today. And, yesterday I got a new 22-250 barrel from T/C. Just about wore out my arm breaking them in and cleaning. Used up almost all of my patches and have to order more.

I'm putting together as much information as possible as I built it. So far I am suitably impressed with it as a whole. A few nit picks but fewer than on many other brands.

Here's a few quickies:

1. Scope mount is solidly screwed on but I individually removed, degreased and locktited them just in case. For a 223 I won't change the mount. I measured the diameter of the barrel at 1.15" The way mine is attached with 3 screws it will be a milling job on a blank until someone comes out with a aftermarket setup.

2. The barrel was a little rough so I used Flitz for 50 round trips then started normal breakin routine. I used the same case because I wanted to measure a few other parameters and will post the results later. Interesting and enlightening but will definitely cause the red ass to some.

3. The chamber is just slightly tighter than the chamber in the Ruger MKII so I had to resize all the cases I had set up. One stuck in the chamber and I had to drop a brass rod down the barrel to pop it out. In time I'll polish it up a little.

4. Sanded out the barrel channel on the fore end and bedded the screw post so it will be set up by tomorrow.

Hey Dave. Changed my handle when all the shit was happening with the server so I could keep going. Didn't read the fine print after it got up again. Had an old movie running while I was trying to get online and gungadin happened to be blowing his horn and getting blown away at the same time. It seemed fitting. Don't see any need to change it back.

I have several sets of loads for the NEF 223, TC 22-250, Rem 25-06 and 250 Sav Imp ready to test so for the next several days I will be making a lot of noise. Sure hope this 223 shoots half as good as the barrel looks. I like may things about it better than T/C. It is simple and robust a little rough around the edges but nothing a little polishing wont fix. Nice crown job. After I see how it shoots I will decide if I need to get after it with the Brownell goodies.

Makatak

Of interest is the fact that the new NEF's coming out have a set screw in the forward part of the scope base. Once you screw on the base, you screw down the set screw until it contacts the barrel. This helps eliminate "rail whip". I believe you can order a new base from NEF. Another trick around that a lot of NEF users do is to place a small rubber washer around the forend post, thereby free floating the barrel. NEF's seem to be fairly sensitive as to where the forend rests when shooting off bags. Most folks seem to get the best accuracy if the forend is placed with the bags behind the forend screw. A couple of good sites for NEF users are their website at http://www.hr1871.com. There's also a forum at the Marlin site at http://www.marlinfirearms.com. Click on Marlin Talk, then H&R. The biggest NEF site with over 600 members is a YahooGroups site(which sucks) located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nef-singleshot/. There are thousands of posts dealing strictly with H&R's/NEF's, plus a lot of data on the homepage in the form of files, databases etc. You have to go thru the process of joining YahooGroups, which was a real pain to me; but worth it.

I have both an encore and #1-B but am considering an 22 sportster youth model for my daugter. The thing is I've found one new and they're asking 110. Is this a good price? And yes I mean new as in still at the store. I went to marlins web site and found that it can't be converted to centerfire but it can be a 17HMR for a few dollars. I know you all praise their accuracy but what about the 22 grouping. Thanks.

Here is something more to think about while the epoxy is setting.

I've been breaking in a new 223 Hvy bbl and decided to do some number crunching. My prime interest was to smooth up the barrel so it wouldn't clog up too fast and be easy to clean and while I was doing that I wondered how the single piece of brass I was using would hold up and what numbers it would give up. Here is the results.

I used a Sampson 55gr BTHP for the initial firing and used that case for the breakin rounds. ONE CASE ONLY. I didn't turn the case only cleaned the pocket and deburred the flash hole

I measured the case initially and after each of the first 5 reloads, then after the 8th firing, the 13th,18th,23rd,28th and finally the 33rd when I ran out of the bullets I began with.

The load was 24.5 gr AA2460, FGM205M primers, and I think the bullets were Sierra 52gr HP's, 2.26" loa, I'm not sure because I dug them out of my supply of fouler only bullets. It didn't really matter they were only for breaking in the barrel.

I used a Stoney 223 head space guage, Mitutoyo ball mic, depth mic, tenth reading mic and calipers for the measurments and a Redding Type S bushing neck sizing die using a 245 bushing AND SET IT TO SIZE HALF THE NECK LENGTH.

Now for the numbers:

FIRST FIRING LAST FIRING
LOA 1.759 1.760
HEADSPACE 3.492 3.4825
BASE 0.3743 0.3743
SHOULDER 0.355 0.355
NECK OD 0.246 0.246
STEP OD 0.254 0.254
NECK WALL 0.0115 0.0110

Now for the interesting parts.

1. The neck step began after the second firing and stayed that dia for the full 33 firings.

2. The shoulder headspace started moving BACKWARD after the third firing and continued the 33 firings. By 33 it was 3.4825, a total of 0.0095" reduction.

3. The primer was backing out at the same rate the shoulder was getting shorter so the overall measured case length WITH THE PRIMER IN was 3.490+/- 0.001.

4. The case OAL increased to 1.761 then on #33 it ended up 1.760. 33 firings and reloadings. At #13 it was 1.760, #18 1.7605, #23 through 32 1.761, and #33 1.760. I didn't trim the case at all.

5. The base and the shoulder stayed at their original numbers neither increasing or decreasing.

6. The neck thickness thinned out to 0.00110 a change of 0.0005 and at #18 I had to reverse the bushing to get an extra half thou so the bullet would hold in the case. If I were shooting for money or critters I would go to a 243 or 244.

I started using a magnifiying lense around the 15th firing to check for any problems like split necks and head seperation that normally start appearing around that number. None were observed and at the 33 firing I couldn't find a thing wrong with the case. No neck spliting, No head seperation or any indicator of such, i.e., shiny ring around the rosy inside or outside the case.

The case ejected at the 33 firing no differently than at the first. The primer pocket didn't feel any different when seating the primer from the first to the last firing. All I could find wrong was a slightly rough case from a rough chamber.

I think the firing pin blow was causing the headspace changes and I'm going to do a bit of spring modification. Similar things happened in T/C's an R#1's.

I checked a few new Sampsons out of the same box and the headspace ran 3.491 +/- 0.001 and I full length resized another case out of the same lot using a Redding 0.010 shell holder and got a 3.493 measurement. I put that one into the chamber and it measured 0.0005 below the chamber face. It time to start load development and I will use those 20 cases to see how the numbers keep running.

I did a similar test with a T/C Encore 22-250. I started with a neck sizer but had to go to a FL sizing die after the 4 firing because it got too long for the chamber and the case gave up at load #14 but I was trimming fro 1.92 to 1.90 every 3rd round. I have a bushing die coming to do another test. If anyone is interested in that test I will post more on it. This isn't something new, it's been don time and time again but the information didn't get on the net.

Lots of information here to mull over while I'm zapping critters.

After the last 10 rounds the barrel cleaned up two rounds of 10 strokes with BBS and a nylon brush, 10 strokes of JB and another two rounds of BBS. I'll soon see how it goes with the first 48 rounds of test loads.

OK class, any questions. Yessssss Johnny?

Wel....DUH! I figured it out.....wasn't a problem after all.

[ 06-12-2002, 02:26: Message edited by: reloaderman ]

Well........things are going good and things are going bad. After the breakin and a big fight with the trigger, I got tired of messing with it and the bandage on my trigger finger didn't look too good also. I just got pissed at went after it with a hammer...a small brass one that is. The pins were tight but a couple of sharp pops got them moving. After I had figured out how it worked, I bent the spring a bit, stoned down the sides of the hammer and the insides of the hammer cutout to knock off the rough edges and put it back together for a test. Much better but still over 3#. Took it apart again and bent some more. Got it down to 2.5#. Loaded up some cases and took it to the range. Loads were in th 1" range and the trigger was like dragging sand paper.

Did the 45 thing, that helped, apart it came again. Got crazy with the pliers and put a nice 70 degree bend in the small end and the pull went down to 20 oz but wouldn't fire hard CCI primers, or Sampson 55gr BTHP's. Loads didn't improve.

Back at the bench. I dug around and found a lighter spring to replace the original trigger spring, bent the hammer spring back to 90 degrees, measured the depth of the hammer sear at about 0.021" and stoned it down to 0.015", polished it a bit more, greased the sear with bolt grease, put it all back together and the trigger pull was still 20 oz but the hammer fall was good enough to light off the "hard" primers and the Sampson 55 BTHP'S. Good thing I don't have neighbors with me blowing holes in the ground at 2:00 AM, went to bed!!!

Spent all day today cleaning 5 rifles from yeaterdays range work. Be glad when the Wipe-out gets here. While all this was going on I was checking out the fired rounds and chrono data. The 223 data wasn't adding up right. Pressure signs didn't match with previous data and with the load manuals and the chrono data was showing over 100 fps extreme spread. Something was definitely wrong with the 223 loads. Could have been a variable hammer fall.

I weighed the cases, IMI brand at 29.3 full to the brim, WW nickle factory ammo was 30.4 and Federal American Eagle was 31.7. 28.5gr BLC-2 had to be vibrated down and still compressed with a 40gr NosBT in the IMI case and was showing pressure signs but 1/2" groups. In the FC brass it came up to the base of the neck, just right. I loaded up the best of the last targets with a few powder and seating changes to check. This barrel isn't showing those 1/4" groups with Varget that some others are getting. Hey, some barrels are diamonds and some are just OK. I just haven't found what it likes yet. At least the trigger is closer to my other varminters and a whole lot cheaper. If I could get my Rem Sendero down below 2.5# safely without buying an after market trigger I'd be ecstatic.

Any more loads try?

Makatak