I know someone here will call me a pussy, but I recently whacked a nice badger and it is at the taxidermist. I felt a bit of remorse after finding out the land owners didn't see them very often. Anybody ever taken a predator and then wondered if you in fact did more harm than good for the environment?

I don't hunt predators. I stick with ground hogs. I don't get down on people for hunting other things, however it is not my cup of tea. Sometimes I get to watch foxes when hunting groundhogs, but they get a pass. So do cats, feral or otherwise.

I don't shoot badgers. They are worthy predators. I like calling coyotes and shoot all I can. I kill feral cats at every opportunity.

Farmers and Ranchers whose land I have hunted gophers (ground squirrels) on have requested me to shoot any badgers or porcupines I see. Those badger holes can be hell on combines in the dark. No guilt at all. Also makes for more varmints to shoot. I never, ever shoot raptors, though. Even if it was legal, I wouldn't do it. Those hawks and eagles are beautiful.

No remorse. Never even thought about it. Rancher where I hunt ground squirrels runs thousands of head of sheep and cattle, he asks that all coyotes and badgers be killed. There are coyote carcasses hanging from the fences rotting off the barbed wire into piles of bones. It is expected that when you kill a coyote it will be left hanging from a fence, if a fence is near by, otherwise it's left to rot in place. Earlier this month I came across several coyote skeletons that weren't there last year. I was advised to watch for badgers, they are nasty creatures one doesn't want to tangle with - so best to kill them on sight. Remember that Disney doesn't write the script. Nature is impersonal, violent, dispassionate and totally lacking in compassion. The rule of nature is that life exists by eating other life.

Our place has badgers, yotes, bobcat, coons, skunks, a roaming mountain lion, ALOT of hogs, cormorants, too many jesses and I am constantly looking for gators. Unless the big cat jumps on me or my dogs, it along w/ the badgers, coons and bobcats get to walk. I have an "understanding" w/ the rest of them. They get seen, they get shot--no quarter--no remorse.

I used to trap coyotes, fox and bobcat when I was young in my native Colorado. Never felt bad about taking any of them because the money was good to have for the family when things were a little tight. When I was in high school in the mid-70s, fur prices went nuts. I got about $400 a piece for good bobcat back then. But Colorado passed a law outlawing leghold traps and I quit going after bobcats and fox. Coyotes were still fair game.

Then, about 6 or 7 years ago I was back there and I got a nice bobcat while rabbit hunting with a 22. I pelted it out and tried to find a buyer. The best offer I got was less than $30. I felt bad about shooting that cat for such a paltry sum. So I had it done as a lifesize mount and swore I'd never shoot another. I've seen 6 or 7 since then but have never even raised a gun at them.

That bobcat really made me sad for some reason. don't know why. I still fling lead at every coyote I see though.

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:
I used to trap coyotes, fox and bobcat when I was young in my native Colorado. Never felt bad about taking any of them because the money was good to have for the family when things were a little tight. When I was in high school in the mid-70s, fur prices went nuts. I got about $400 a piece for good bobcat back then. But Colorado passed a law outlawing leghold traps and I quit going after bobcats and fox. Coyotes were still fair game.

Then, about 6 or 7 years ago I was back there and I got a nice bobcat while rabbit hunting with a 22. I pelted it out and tried to find a buyer. The best offer I got was less than $30. I felt bad about shooting that cat for such a paltry sum. So I had it done as a lifesize mount and swore I'd never shoot another. I've seen 6 or 7 since then but have never even raised a gun at them.

That bobcat really made me sad for some reason. don't know why. I still fling lead at every coyote I see though.

Killing something for the money seams to cheapen the sport. I know from your previous posts that you feel game belongs to the people. How do you justify killing the people's property for your profit? I'm not coming down on you or calling it wrong, I am just curious the rationale in your mind. Are these nuisance animals, over populated?

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:
I used to trap coyotes, fox and bobcat when I was young in my native Colorado. Never felt bad about taking any of them because the money was good to have for the family when things were a little tight. When I was in high school in the mid-70s, fur prices went nuts. I got about $400 a piece for good bobcat back then. But Colorado passed a law outlawing leghold traps and I quit going after bobcats and fox. Coyotes were still fair game.

Then, about 6 or 7 years ago I was back there and I got a nice bobcat while rabbit hunting with a 22. I pelted it out and tried to find a buyer. The best offer I got was less than $30. I felt bad about shooting that cat for such a paltry sum. So I had it done as a lifesize mount and swore I'd never shoot another. I've seen 6 or 7 since then but have never even raised a gun at them.

That bobcat really made me sad for some reason. don't know why. I still fling lead at every coyote I see though.

Killing something for the money seams to cheapen the sport. I know from your previous posts that you feel game belongs to the people. How do you justify killing the people's property for your profit? I'm not coming down on you or calling it wrong, I am just curious the rationale in your mind. Are these nuisance animals, over populated?

Perry

And your ignorance shines through. What I am against is poaching, as I have stated many times. Not the legal taking of game or furbearers with the context of the law. So, since bobcat is considered both a legal small game animal and a furbearer in Colorado, and has seasons accordingly, taking them within the context of those laws is not a problem.

Just where do you get "How do you justify killing the people's property for your profit"? I was a trapper. and trappers take furbearers for sale. I was licensed and taking part in a legal activity. This is no different than a hunting guide charging someone to hunt deer. After all, both make money from a public resource. But they do it within the law. Poaching is the issue, not taking legal game.

Why do you have such a hard time condoning poaching? Why do you and a couple of your breathern insist on trying to find a way to justify it? The definition of poaching is taking game and fish in a manner that is not in agreement with the current laws. If an activity is legal, it is not poaching.

And that, makes all the difference.

Where in the world did poaching get drawn into this???

I COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY CONDEM POACHING. I ALWAYS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL!!!!! YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE ME AND MY POINT OF VIEW CONFUSED WITH SOMEONE ELSE FROM TEXAS YOU HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH.

So if a type of hunting is legal then there is no condemnation. Just wanted you to clear that up. You take animals lives for profit...because it is legal. For the record I have no problem with that.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Where in the world did poaching get drawn into this???

I COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY CONDEM POACHING. I ALWAYS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL!!!!! YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE ME AND MY POINT OF VIEW CONFUSED WITH SOMEONE ELSE FROM TEXAS YOU HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH.

So if a type of hunting is legal then there is no condemnation. Just wanted you to clear that up. You take animals lives for profit...because it is legal. For the record I have no problem with that.

Perry

Because the conversations we have previously had where there was serious disagreement have all involved cases of poaching. You have never heard seen me post anything in which I have condemned the taking of native game in a legal manner. If you are putting forth such a claim, then you're trying to put words in my mouth.

I have on occasion posted in complaint of cases where landowners were caught indiscriminately killing game. This is a grevious violation because native game is a public resource. Doesn't matter if it is on public land or private land, native game in managed for all the people. Exotics are another story since they bear the official title of either feral animals or livestock. But no state has ever ceded control of native game. That is why there are season, bag limits, legal method of take and regulations in place.

I have never had an issue with someone taking game, fish or furbearers in accordance to the current laws on the books. And never will. It matters not if it is taken for food, sport or profit as long as it was legal to take.

Flags

For agreeing with you, you are wound tighter than anyone I have ever met.

Perry

You asked. I'm just trying to explain.

I admit that sometimes I get a little wound up. If you look over my posting you'll note there are 2 Texans that specifically attack just about everything I post. You know who they are.

Yet for all their attacks, they have never been able to refute anything I've ever posted. But that doesn't keep those idiots from trying.

Peace

drewhenrytnt, the short answer is "no". Where I hunt, it is cattle country and the predators are pests of the worse kind. If I kill a badger (legally, of course) I may have saved the landowner from having a $1400 investment in a cow, or worse yet, his bull, from stepping in the hole and breaking a leg. Same for coyotes eating calves. I don't think twice about it.

Remorse, no.
Recoil, a little.

Rich

well, there was this one Siamese

Rich,

Didn't feel any recoil. I was spotlighting with 375H&H. Don't remember much more. Pretty much bang-flop!

Andy

Not to sure about remorse but I'm pretty sure when I get to hell it will be populated by seven foot tall pissed off prairie dogs with sharp claws and fangs....

Andy, just remember all the quail that you SAVED by killing that badger.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I know someone here will call me a pussy, but I recently whacked a nice badger and it is at the taxidermist. I felt a bit of remorse after finding out the land owners didn't see them very often. Anybody ever taken a predator and then wondered if you in fact did more harm than good for the environment?

Drew, your post shows that you are a sportsman and not a killer. Nothing wrong with that. Ethical sportsmen have been a rarity for some time.

Thank you Rae. There are those here that feel my ethics are questionable. I started the push for the Long Range Forum. Way before I ever take a shot at a game animal at extreme distance I want to learn all I can and practice a bunch before I put myself in the position of having to make the decision on whether to shoot one across a canyon

Andy

I feel remorse when I miss a shot.

Hal

Drewhenry -

I think the reason you feel remorse is called "maturity".

It is the same reason native americans used to thank the buffalo when they killed one (or some). They respected the animals for what they had given up to the indians...their lives.

The plains indians couldn't quit killing them; the buffalo provided the plains tribes with their major source of life...heat, shelter, food, clothing, and even tools. And they killed them in some of the most cruel ways an animal can die, because they had to. No buff, no life during the hard prairie winters.

But they still respected them, which is merely a nice euphamism for regretting having to kill them.

I'm at pretty much the same place you are, only with me (and more years of age) it has pretty much extended to all hunting.

Life is tough enough for wild animals (including humans) with the constantly increasing encroachment of what passes for civilization. I try to enjoy and appreciate their beauty, and let them do what nature has programmed them to do. I can't always do that, especially if they endanger my personal way of life, but I do it where I can. I killed enough in my salad days.

Hair on ya' bud.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
I don't hunt predators. I stick with ground hogs. I don't get down on people for hunting other things, however it is not my cup of tea. Sometimes I get to watch foxes when hunting groundhogs, but they get a pass. So do cats, feral or otherwise.

I'll give up anything to shoot a cat. Will eve pass up a fox for a cat.

.

After the decision is made to shoot, the only way
I would feel remorse would be to make the animal
suffer. Just doing our thing, white man upset the
natural balance of nature. If we want to keep a
happy balance of natural wildlife, we need to do
our part. People have allowed too many kitties
and piggies out and they drastically upset the
balance of nature. Both should be encountered with
extreme prejudice, for they have the same effect
on native critters. Truly, the same goes for
imported Canadian timber wolves. The "bleeding
hearts" of this USofA have unleashed a beast
which carries dangerous parasites (controlled
in their native land by extreme winters) and
they have decimated the native timber wolf,
along with many elk in certain regions.
Normally, I believe in following the "letter
of the law", but in this case, the "law" is
dead wrong, and hats off to those who Shoot,
Shovel, and Shutup.

Otherwise, true conservation should be followed.
Decimating any one natural species will only
upset the balance of nature, but when there is
too many of said species, shoot away without
remorse until the balance is attained.

Sometimes even if it is a coyote or a prarie dog but I am a little biased on what varmint I feel remorse for killing. Definately no remorse for racoons, cormorants or porcipines unless it is not a clean kill then I would feel bad until I remember all the times I pulled quills out of a dog or found that the racoons found a way to open the hen house door and killed a bunch of chickens or seen a bunch of discusting cormorants eating fish and being discusting.

My dog treed a bunch of coons one day that had gotten into my garbage and made a big mess. I left him with the coons until I got my 22lr out of the house and started dropping them out of trees one by one with headshots. After they were all down 5 in total I put the 22 away and then came back to pick up the coons and throw them in the back of the truck. The 3rd one I picked up by the tail woke up since he was only knocked out and grabbed my leg and bit my jeans just missing my leg and then my dog took it by the back of the neck and pinned it to the ground while I picked up a big club and pulled the dog off and whacked him a couple times over the head to kill him... No remorse that day at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Remorse, no.
Recoil, a little.

Rich

Same

Ever been chased by a Badger ??

I'll never pass up a shot at one...

They'll rip you a new one if they have the chance...

I will pass on Red Fox.....but not feral cats....

quote:

Originally posted by armed_in_utah:
Ever been chased by a Badger ??

I'll never pass up a shot at one...

They'll rip you a new one if they have the chance...

I will pass on Red Fox.....but not feral cats....

Yes and we made tracks fast. I will shoot any non protected predator that lunches on game birds, nests, or eggs.

While antelope hunting this past Fall, I was lucky enough to kill 6 badgers in two days on the property. Ran into the rancher and he asked if I was having any luck. Told him no, not on antelope but that I had eliminated the badgers and his answer to me was "You just earned permission to hunt again next year!"

They raise heck with swathers, balers, pivots, and the livestock they injure. No remorse here.

I am learning all kinds of things about badgers I did not know. I wonder in what ways they benefir the environment where not disturbed by man or ranching?

I managed a ranch in Aspen in the 80's that had a colony of marmots. I love varmint shooting, so... One day I noticed I hadn't seen any for a while, and realized I had shot them out. I felt bad about that, so when a few came back a couple years later I didn't shoot any more. There was just a little colony and I would rather see them around than shoot them out. I found other, bigger colonies and shot there.

I find no joy in killing animals. I like to hunt, love it actually but the kill isn't the thrill of the hunt, just an ending.

I always feel remorse when I do not shoot the two big noisy turd producing dogs in my neighbor's back yard.

BTW I am pretty sure that livesstock are rarely injured by critter holes. I grew up in cattle country that near the places that the cattle legends Oliver Loving and Charles Goodnight got started in the cattle business. That land is infested with armadillos among other things. I have never seen or heard of an animal being injured from stepping in a hole. That included the talked from the kids I went to school with from all over that county. Cattle for the most part move too slowly to get hurt and when they do get in a hurry it is usually on a cow path that is already beaten down to pavement hard dirt.

quote:

drewhenrytnt

,
The fact that you felt remorse shows that you love nature...and as dempsey said, pulling the trigger is hardly ever the nice thing about hunting. It should never only be about the killing, but the time we get to spend outdoors doing what we love.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

Ditto
We shot PD's yesterday and a couple of badgers kept us entertained at 200 yds fighting/playing whatever they were doing.
Guy I was with wanting to count down and take both of them. I told him go ahead, not for me. Both of them lived to dig up PD's another day.
I'd have felt severe remorse to shoot them and leave them there. I was chased by one as a teen but I like them as critters go.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
I don't hunt predators. I stick with ground hogs. I don't get down on people for hunting other things, however it is not my cup of tea. Sometimes I get to watch foxes when hunting groundhogs, but they get a pass. So do cats, feral or otherwise.

I shot a young ground hog last summer with a 243 Winchester, using a 55 grain Nosler BT at a chronographed 4000+ fps. I shot the little hog at 30 feet after he walked around a hay bail.

He exploded.

Yeah, that wasn't too nice.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

NO

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
I shot a young ground hog last summer with a 243 Winchester, using a 55 grain Nosler BT at a chronographed 4000+ fps. I shot the little hog at 30 feet after he walked around a hay bail.

He exploded.

Yeah, that wasn't too nice.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I have a .243 set up like yours and use it for long range rock chucks and coyotes. Turns them into acrobats.

I used a .243 for my marmot gun for a few years. I was shooting 58 gr V-Max's at 3700. Very effective.