Are the firearms that they sell "seconds"? I've been reading reports for quite sometime on AR, and everyone seems to know their shit in here. The reason I ask is I'm looking at getting a .204. I want to get the most bang for my buck. (no pun intended) Because if you compare prices for example: CZ-Varmint at Wally-World $478, CZ's web site runs $608. Just wondering why the big difference. Is it better to buy direct or go to your local Cabela's/sporting goods store?

Regards,
PSE

No, they are not "seconds". The reason for the difference in price is the same for any other manufacturer. Go to Browning or Remington's website and look at the MSRP of their guns, then go look at how much you can buy them for at the store. Store price will always be cheaper. If you are worried that you are going to get a lower quality gun buying it at Walmart, quit worrying, because that is not the case.

And I thought you were going to ask whether there were lots of varmints at Wal-mart.

Of course, everyone knows the answer is yes.

At times like this I wished I lived in Nebraska ? roger

The problem with Wal-Mart isn't the quality of firearms, but the quality of people selling them to you. Every now and then you will find someone in the sporting goods area that has a little knowledge on rifles and shotguns. If I know the exact rifle or shotgun that I want and it is available at Wally World I'll buy it, but I find the local gun shop to be more knowledgeable plus the guys there are more pleasant to talk with. Wal-Mart used to be and probably still is the largest distributor of firearms in the United States. They just buy in such a large volume that you get the same firearm cheaper than most local guns shops, just that you get cheaper service as well.

A friend that owned a small one man gun shop (with part time gunsmith) told me that Wally World sold guns cheaper than he could buy them, brand for brand, model for model.

Thanks for all the imput fellas.
I agree. They seem to hire only to very best for their stores. All though it is better to have an "older" person actually talk to you than have some dumb-ass high school kid sit there and shrug his shoulders, and say "I dunno." As he/she gets back to talking on their cell phone from the person they just left 10 minutes ago.
Now I'm rambling.....
later fellas

One of the things to understand about Wal-Mart is they never buy a rifle. They don't even buy a bunch of rifles. They buy stuff by the truck load and warehouse it until they need it. I don't look at firearms in Wal-Mart much but I think you'll notice there are no higher grade rifles, 700 BDL ever been thru or maybe a Model 70 featherweight? And if you see them close out a model, they just finished their contract and are running out of stock. Do they sell the 200 Stevens anywhere? How about a Savage mod 14? As for seconds, you have any idea how bad they would get sued if they knowingly sold a second and it blew up? I don't think anybody would sell a second.

Seconds,
They very well can be. Wal Mart as well as Academy do buy alot of seconds. Now these are not mechanical problems but mostly dents and scratches. I am a distributer and sometimes I see thier prices below my own. I myself do not buy the seconds to sell to my customers but that is just me. Some of the manufactures mark the guns in a way that you can be sure if they are seconds or not. I know that Weatherby engraves the rifles where you can see it when you remove the stock. Another reason I do not sell these is they generally come with a limited warranty if any at all. I suggest you stay away from the marts and go to a small reputable dealer. The few extra dollars you spend will be well worth it in the long run.

JM2CW

I've had my Weatherby Vanguard out of the stock. No "second" markings.

When I bought it, in fact you couldn't buy a Vanguard anywhere except Wal-Mart. They had an exclusive contract, which made Wal-Mart the largest selling Weatherby dealer. I'm not sure if that's still the case now.

I really think a lot of the manufacturers do 'drop their seconds' onto Walmart, etc....

It is cheaper than scrapping the rifle, and doesn't mean that they don't have an outlet for poor QC at times...

HOwever, that doesn't mean that EVERY firearm at Wally world is second hand junk...

Minus what the stores inventory, a lot of their rifle inventory, especially what you have to special order, comes from a warehousing rifle distributor, not Walmart....The Distributor, warehouses the firearms, and Wally World just orders as needed, especially the special order stuff....

When they get things in like around here, ALL the Wally World's in the Pacific Northwest had a ton of Ruger 77 Mk 2's in 7 Rem Mag for quite a while... Walmart had bought an overstock of some distributor on that rifle in that Caliber, because the Distributor wasn't moving them, so unloaded them cheap to Walmart....

Walmarts will also have a reduction sale to get rid of things that don't move... they don't announce it, they just put them out marked at a reduced price....

24 months ago or so, they dumped a bunch of Remington 700 ADLs for $150.00 each.... they all went in a few hours...$150.00 each was probably what Wally World had paid for them...

Walmart, like many other gun volume dealers, you have diamonds and junk all setting on the same rack, fresh out of the box....

But remember, many Wally Mart customers aren't exactly rifle connesouers... but instead if they can hit a target 3 times at the range at 100 yds, then they think they are ready to rock and roll.....

They way I look at it, if I get a low price and it is junk, I can recoop my investment easier, or rebarrel it and still not have a fortune tied up in it....

Or on the other end, you deal with a good distributor or big store, they may just swap the rifle out defective for you, or at least use their clout in making it right for you from the manufacturers.....

I bought a rifle from a local gunshop where I shop locally, and it was a lemon... It went back to the manufacturer via the store 4 times in a year, and still was not fixed right...
It was a 22 Mag, and the manufacturer was whining when I told them to just replace the rifle, that they were not due to have another production schedule for 22 Mags for quite a while... So I told them to just send me something to replace it ( as I had intentions of just trading in the replacement and buy me another manufacturer's rifle).....

They ended up sending me a 338 Win Mag! to replace a 22 Win Mag.... I traded it in, fresh out of the box, to the local shop, for a 260 Remington VLS.....

Yet a happy ending to the story, was an hour later, some guy walks into the store and claims he has been to 50 gun shops trying to find a 338 Win Mag, in stainless with a laminate Stock from Ruger.... the dealer pulled my rifle that had been there and hour and the guy already had his check book out and never even asked for a price but had made the check out for FULL LIST price... needless to say, the local dealer was happy, and so was the guy that took the 338 out the door... since Elk season started in a week...

I do not think there is such a thing as a Remington 700 Rifle "second"!
I would have to see documentation on that one not just someones "conjecture" or a rumor from a brother in law!
I have bought my share of Rifles from Wal-Mart and never had a complaint.
One quick Wal-Mart "sale" story though - I was out on the west coast a few years ago where my partner and I were doing a very large Gunshow. We got there on Friday morning and set up early doing so-so business that first afternoon. Friday night we went out to dinner and stopped by a Wal-Mart for a look see.
We ended up buying "several" Ruger 10-22's at a screamer price!
Now these weren't just your ordinary Ruger 10-22's, these were all stainless 10-22's in Deluxe checkered walnut wood! AND, these Ruger 10-22's stainless barrels were specially made to be 4" longer than the Standard (or Deluxe) catalogued Models!
They sold the next day like the proverbial "hotcakes"!
We made a handsome profit and went back Saturday night to get the last couple Rifles the Wally World folks had!
Yes, I am aware Wal-Mart does on occassion "blow-out" some of their merchandise, including firearms.
It pays to shop Wal-Mart!
But I have as yet to see ANY evidence Wal-Mart sells second rate or flawed firearms.
If anyone has such documentation I would like to see it.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I was not trying to say that all of what wal mart sells are seconds. There are a lot of good deals from time to time.
Now there are lot of seconds around the firearm industry. I have been in the industry for 17 years now. I myself do not sell any of these because I offer a lifetime replacement on all of the firearms I sell. If it breaks you get a new gun period. The only way you would get your gun repaired is that they don't make that one anymore. I don't sell any of these because usually there is no warranty available. If anyone else wants one I can email them a copy of a Weatherby second sale paper. I am going to send you one Varmintguy,
Thanks.

JM2CW

We'll it sounds like I can trust Wally on firearms. However this past weekend I went to my local Sam's Club to get some dog food for my lab. They didnt open till 10 a.m. so I went right next door (less than 75yds) to Wally World to kill some time and check their prices on the same dog food. Tucker (my Lab) is almost a year old, so I've been getting the large breed puppy food. Wally wanted $28 dollars for 30lb bag. Sams want $20 and some change for the same bag. You would think they would be closer in price on certain things like that, except on their bulk items of course.


PSE2119

Have any of you guys seen this one?: Howa Carbon Fiber Supreme Package
Available in .223, .22-250, .243 and .204 Calibers only
Since I was looking at a .204, this one really caught my eye.

Yeah those carbon fiber barreled rifles are the cat's meow! I'd love to be able to afford a couple in 223, and 22.250....and maybe 243..

As far as Sam's Club vs Walmart.. you really have to check out their prices...

I have also seen where you could buy the same item in Wally World for 20% less than in Sam's Club and didn't have to buy an annual membership....

When it comes to large bulk stores.. Costco blows Sam's Club away....

22 Rimfire: Thank you so very much for the "Weatherby 2nd's Sale Announcement".
That was very interesting!
I was concerned though, with Remington 700's having such a thing as a "factory 2nd"!
I have never heard of such a thing (Remington factory seconds) at least during the years (decades) I had my FFL. I gave it up 9 years ago when I retired and moved to Montana.
Thanks again and please if you have any info on Remington "seconds" I would love to hear it.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There is no way a manufacturer is going to send 2nds to Walmart. A product is an advertisement. No company will intentionally let a flawed product be seen by the numbers of people that walk through Walmart. People will think that is up to the manufacture's standard through their entire product line. THink of the word of mouth they'd be dealing with!

Actually manufacturers are forced to design cheaper stuff by large chains. My x was a designer for John Deere and one of her projects was to change the trigger housing on the string trimmers with cheaper parts for the big chain buyers. The John Deere trimmers in the John Deere store are actually higher quality and more reliable.

Wal-mart will not buy seconds...period. Wal-mart uses its buying power to negotiate the lowest possible cost and will sometimes buy items with a slightly different design in order to cut costs. Example would be a lower quality stock that what might normally come on a standard rifle. In that case the gun will not be exactly the same as what is found in a gun shop...but it is not a second.

There is a difference in seconds and budget design changes. Some would view cheapened designs in the same class as seconds but a cheapened design is not a defective item (second).

Trust me they do not sell seconds. I was over a sporting goods and dealt with Wal-Marts gun buyer all the time my store was in the top 10% for gun sales. All their guns come from two main distributors that most of the other gun shops are buying from. Wal-Mart has what you call buying power. It doesn’t matter how many guns the little guy sells they will always will be paying more for the same gun, which will be past on to you. Do you really think that the distributor is going to give a person buying $50,000 dollars worth of guns a better deal then a company buying millions, if that happen Wal-Mart would find a new distributor? These guns also have the same warranties that you get anywhere else. I love when people (Gun shops) say they have a offer a better warranty and then I ask, What happens if it jams a week from now? They always say we’ll send it back to the company for you. I reply that’s funny that’s the same thing Wal-Mart does I thought you said you have a better warranty and then they shut up. People always talk trash when your not spending your money with them.

I don't buy the seconds argument either. But it's true Wal-Mart does get special economy designs. I've already mentioned that my Vanguard was a Wal-Mart exclusive when I bought it. (In fact, I scrambled to buy one as quickly as I could, knowing that the Vanguard had been discontinued 5 years earlier. I thought they'd found some NOS ones and were blowing them out at a discount. I didn't know they'd reintroduced it.) I also have a 1999-built Winchester Model 70 from Wal-Mart that's a push feed post-'64 type in a black plastic stock with a blind magazine. Winchester didn't catalog a model like that at the time I bought mine, though their "Black Shadow" was somewhat similar. My other Wal-Mart rifle is a Savage Model 12BVSS varminter that's certainly no second, isn't any different from the ones sold elsewhere, and wasn't sold at a great discount, either. It was as good a deal as I could find on one at the time.

I visited a WALLY in Laramie Wy in 05
that actually stocked reloading supplies.
Powder brass primers bullets. Could not
believe my eyes. The clerk actually spoke
GUNS language. A far cry from the store
close to me that iformed me once that they
were out of ''twenty caliber'' shotgun shells.

rb

My brother bought a cz452 trainer at wal-mart. The bolt handle knob is missing the hole at the bottom. I have three cz452's and they all have the hole. Also I did some work on it to get it smoothed out (scrub the crud out of the bore, lap the bolt, 2 lb trigger job yada yada yada..)and I noticed some deformities on the bolt handle sleeve that I had to iron out. I shot fine after that though. I guess the bolt handle was made on a Monday...

As I have stated before anyone that does not believe there are seconds out there they are missinformed and just send me an email address and I can send the same sale paper from Weatherby to you.
Now for Wal-Marts so called buting power. There alot of firearms and accessories that are not and will never be available at any of the big chain stores. These are programs that the manufacturers run so the smaller guy can compete with the store that will undersell an item to get customers in thier store. The afore mentioned chain has lost several major lawsuits for the very same unfair trade practices.
Now onto warranty. Go to any wal mart and ask them if a gun you buy there breaks how they will help you in repairs? They will say that they will help you send it back for repairs. All of my firearms come with a "lifetime replacement warranty" if it breaks you will get a new one not wait to get the old one fixed!!!

I am a distributer and I don't deal with the marts. Also the so called mart cannot even sell firearms in several states anymore for legal reasons.

Keep on buying from the chains what ever makes you happy. I have all of the business I need without involving them. When was the last time you saw Black Hills Ammo at a Wal-Mart?

JM2CW

22 Rimfire...

Let's just hope distributors like yourself, keep having things available for the rest of us...

I have to admit, my small time local guy is usually within $25 to $30.00 of what the price of Walmart's normal gun prices are...

Even tho I shop Wally World, I will usually gladly pay the extra few bucks to keep the small guy afloat....

But unlike Wally World, my local gunshop will take one of my firearms in on trade.. and give me a good price on it..Wally World won't...

case in point, I could have bought my Savage 12 BVSS at Walmart for $25.00 less than the local gunshop wanted... However the local gunshop gave me $400.00 in trade toward it, on a 1991 Production Ruger VT... so I got the new Savage for That and $250.00....

My Ruger sat on the shelf for a week and someone came in and bought it for $495.00.....

I buy rimfire ammo at Wally Mart, I'll admit...
But for other things, especially guns, a lot of these NON chain gunshops do awfully good for the customer...

and they usually blow the doors off of places like Big 5.....

And if you are lucky enough to have a Sportsman's Warehouse near you.... Wally World doesn't even come close on competing with their pricing...

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
Wal-mart will not buy seconds...period. Wal-mart uses its buying power to negotiate the lowest possible cost and will sometimes buy items with a slightly different design in order to cut costs. Example would be a lower quality stock that what might normally come on a standard rifle. In that case the gun will not be exactly the same as what is found in a gun shop...but it is not a second.

No, it is not technically a "second", but it is a most definetly a LESS QUALITY "FIRST."

WalMart does not intentionally buy “seconds,†however, manufacturers will not spend the same money on quality control for a product they are making half the profit on. It is simple economics.

I am a vendor for WalMart and I have seen this first hand.

quote:

Originally posted by 22Rimfire:
Also the so called mart cannot even sell firearms in several states anymore for legal reasons.JM2CW

The reason WalMart can't sell guns in some states or locations is they can't find people smart enough to fill out the 4473 correctly.

I have filled out HUNDREDS of 4473's and it ain't rocket science.

Wal Marts major problem is not the local counter guy not knowing so much. Many folks buying guns don't really need an expert.(and a whole bunch do). The buyers in Arkansas(headquarters)don't seem to know their butt from third base and you should see them steal third--another story. One example is 5mm(20 cal pellets)that is a popular size,but you won't find them at Wal Mart. I did contact their buyer and got lip service. Told him so. Then in desperation he said we dont stock them because we dont sell that size rifle. They don't sell cars but they sell tires. One of our counter guys was on the US Marine Corp shooting team and has won a couple of National Matches. He knows guns. He was well aware of the popularity of the mentioned pellets,but his hands are tied in getting them.

I was told the reason Walmart can sell guns and several other items for a low price is because they don't actually buy anything. The items in the store belong to the distributors, and the distributors don't get paid until an item is sold. I am not sure if this is correct or not, just what I heard. Also, much of the stuff is suppposedly spec'd for lower cost, such as maybe a lower grade stock, matte finish, etc.

No the guns that they sell are owned by Walmart. Now they do sometimes get the gun and sell it before they ever pay for it. That's just good business skills.
It is true about the stocks and finishes could be a lower grade on some of the models. This applies to the non special order guns, which is the ones you'll see in the cases(most of the time). The special order guns they sell are all the same finishes and stocks as any other dealers.