Dear Varminters:
Choosing the right gun is soooo confusing and the more I read. The more I am getting confused.

Basically I'm looking for a 100-150 yard gun in the .233 Caliber range and I have choosen the following. I will use this gun for target practive and some hunting.

1) SAVAGE 10FP (.223)
2) Remington 700P (.223)
3) Bushmaster Varminter (.233 offcourse!)

WHICH GUN SHOULD I BUY? Any suggestions would be great. Thank you all for your kind help.

For just plain accurcy the savage will be hard to beat I have one and it well shoots under a 1/2 on demand and under 3/8s if Iam up to it I have shot several sub 1.5 in groups with it at 300. The savage will need a new trigger I put timmys all mine. For what you want to do with it they will work just fine. Can't beat the price.

Any of the rifles mentioned will work just fine for your needs. Pick the one that you like the best.

I think Pumkinheaver has it. Choose the one that trips your trigger!

They all have pros and cons. If supreme accuracy is what you want, I'd go with one of the bolt guns. The Savage would be the surer bet, but I've seen some Remingtons shoot pretty darned well also.

The AR would be the biggest money. You don't mention budget, but for the cost of that rifle you can get the Savage and a nice scope.

Good luck in your decision,

green 788

Thank you all.

I have a limit of $1000.00. I have heard so much about the Savage and the 700P, it's a hard choice.

Anyone know which is more of a target, competition type of a gun? Is the trigger the only problem in the savage? Is it otherwise ok?

The 700P is used by the USMC as their main sniper rifle.

OIE VE!

The Savage trigger can be worked to about 2 pounds. I did my own, and it's doing very well. You can find information at www.snipershide.com regarding the trigger job, and if you can't find it there, just post and ask.

The stock that comes on the Savage will leave a lot to be desired, unless you go on and get the laminated version (which wouldn't be a bad idea). The synthetic version can be stiffened with Acraglas, and counterweighted in the stock hollow to provide a decent feel. Notes on these mods can also be found at www.snipershide.com .

The USMC uses a custom made rifle that is merely based on the Remington 700 action. The chambering for most of those rifles is .308 Win. You can find out more about what sniper rifles the military and law enforcement groups are using at the site mentioned above.

Again, if you want accuracy assured, you'll probably want to go with the Savage. As I mentioned, some Remingtons will shoot with some Savages, but the rule is, well... Savage rules ...

Dan Newberry
green 788

Get the Savage 12BVSS and install the 'Rifle Basix' trigger. You'll love it.

12BVSS it is then!

May I ask what type of a scope I should put on this baby?

Secondly - A lot of people have told me to get a 22-250 caliber. But my choice is a .223. I just wanted to know if there is a lot more recoil in the the 22-250 than the .223. I presume it is louder as well.

[ 09-08-2002, 05:21: Message edited by: DaveP ]

My opinions.
1. I don't own a heavy barrel savage, Can't speak first hand. IMHO The trigger sucks and just seems cheasey to me. the one's I have shot were good shooters though.
2. I have a Rem 700 VLS in 223. With reloads I can get 1/2" groups @100, alot of the time. Very nice shooter, but gives me trouble ejecting spent rounds some times. Very heavy too
3.AR's; I built a Rock river lower for around $250 with a RR NM 2stage trigger, and bought a complete NM upper from sable for $460. A little over $700 total. Most of the time, it is my most accurate 223.

Depending on what you want, how much to spend, etc... You could buy a used action and put around $500-600 into it with a good gunsmith, and probably outshoot any factory rifle you will buy for under $1000. And have a better barrel with a twist rate for the bullets you want to shoot. IMHO I would put more faith in a quality gunsmith over a firearms manufacture worker who doesn't give a hoot about his reputation.

OR just get the AR and enjoy it

Shop around though.

BTW, I am no expert.

I think you'll find the .223 more economical to shoot, and it will do what you mention your requirements to be.

A 22-250 has a range advantage of about 20% over the .223, which isn't really a lot when you think about it.

As for an awesome scope that you'll never regret buying, I'd go with a Weaver Grand Slam in either 4.5 to 14 or 6.5 to 20 power. You can depend on the click adjustments of these scopes, and you'll be able to learn your rifle's trajectory and adjust the scope's elevation turret to be zeroed for any range you choose, even out to 600 yards.

You'd have to spend upwards of 700 dollars on a Leupold to get the glass quality of the Weaver Grand Slam. The GS equals the Vari X III's, so you'd have to go with a Leupold LPS to out-do one. And the Weaver's turrets would still be better...

Dan Newberry
green 788

Dear Dan and all.

Thank you again.

In the Bushmaster Varminter, they mention Gas powered. May I know what this means? Does this gas need replacement? or better does it run out?
How can the gun use regular ammo and be gas operated? Never understood that.

If anyone can enlighten me, I would appreciate the knowledge.

Dave.

Dave ,
"Gas Operated" means that gas from the powder burning in the barrel is used to operate the action .

Yea there on sale right now actually.

I'd buy the Remington Sendero (Blued) in .22-250 and throw a Weaver Grand Slam 6.5-24X on it. My Sendero shoots Sub MOA consistently with no changes to gun or trigger and the Weaver Grand Slam scope offers alot of scope for the money. It's incredibly clear and bright for the cost. You should be able to get both for around $1000. Just my 2cents.

[ 09-09-2002, 23:08: Message edited by: Shark Bait ]

I would pick M700 in 223 Remington, this round is the upper limit of noise and muzzle blast w/no protection. Also factory reloads are readly available at low cost and performance is high.

The Bushmaster would, to my mind, be the most fun.
The Remington has the rep for shooting better than the Savage out of the box. Check the old issues of Gun Tests. I've never seen them test a Savage that beat a competing Remington.
The Remingtons have fully adjustable triggers. They have a much better, H-S style, stock. And a much smoother barrel.
The Savages can be made to shoot. But, the odds are, a Remington will give you what you want with less fuss. E

I have a squared a trued .22-250 Rem VSS with a 1.5 Rifle Basix trigger. Honestly it's a hell of a shooter. Accurate as can be and ripps varmints damn near as hard as 6mm and .25 cal rigs. Even so when the opportunity to own an AR-15 came I couldn't resist. Long story short, I got a Rock River with a 20" stainless varmint barrel and two stage trigger. I topped it with a nice fixed 4x scope.

55gr soft point poliece ammo will shoot .75" all day long out of that factory AR and I haven't even tried the match ammo yet. My Rem will shoot less than half that without breaking a sweat but guess which gets shot more? Yep the AR! That thing is so damn much fun it's unbelievable!!! Mostly it gets used for blasting coyotes and the Rem is my goto gun for pdogs and other long range itty-bitty targets, but if I could keep only one it would be the Rock River. Which incidentally, my buddy who got a Bushmaster only weeks before me is suddenly not so impressed with his gun.... FWIW

[ 09-12-2002, 03:22: Message edited by: waldog ]

Well I shoot a 22-250 and my day shoots a .223. The .223 will save you a little on reloading costs for sure and if 200 is about all you are after then it is a great choice. For 200 yrds a 14 power scope should be plenty and a good 14 would be even better. I like a real high power scope so I can turn it up and really take a peak at things so if the 20 isn't that much more then you might want to think about it but you need a really good sandbag or I prefer my bypod any day.

Also look into CZ's they have a heavy barrelled job there well priced and I have not come across a CZ that doesn't shoot.

Also the Howa Varminters are turning in good results as well.