Got a report from a buddy in Maryland today that says this round is really good medicine on fox and smaller varmints. This might be a good alternative to the 17 hmr that has been discussed in a different thread.
Does anyone have experience with this round?

Works very well on prairie dogs.
Have shot two coyotes with mine. Both died very quick, but they were hit in the right place. It would not be my first choice for coyotes, but I think it would be great on fox.

The 17 Gr V-Max bullet fired out of a 17 HMR rifle with a MV of 2,550 ft/sec has about 100 ft/lb of energy at 150 yards. The 25 Gr Hornady HP bullet with a MV of 3,880 ft/sec fired from my 17 Fireball rifle has about 340 ft/lb of energy at 300 yards. Most all of my varmint shooting is at prairie dogs. The 17 Fireball should be a fine fox rifle..

I have a number of .17's, including a .17 Fireball. Some of the bigger wildcats as well as the .17 Remington are considered by many to be near perfect fur rounds, dinky hole going in.. none going out. dead critter.
I've shot the .17 MachIV for years and it's a ballistic twin of the .17 Fire Ball. Either would be perfect for fox especially if the fur matters to ya. My Remington .17 Fire Ball is a 1 in 9 twist and I'm just about to start working up some 30 grain loads that ought to be about perfect for 250ish or less yards on coyote. The 1 in 9 twist ought to handle the 30 grainers real well.
Outstanding round on gophers and p-dogs and my MachIV has taken many rock chucks and a good number of badgers. Ya see all the hits (or misses ), it's quiet and real easy on barrel heat and components. Excellent varmint round as long as long as dead critters and not big clouds of "red mist" are your goal.
Very efficient round! I love em.

Just got my first 17 Fireball and I really like it. It is the Remington Predator and I put a Burris 4.5-14 on it with Leupold one piece bridge mount.

I have shot it but there is so much snow I couldn't set up for more than 20 yards so I have no idea how it shoots.

Yessir, some of us are.
GWB

Nice, if it quits snowing for a few days I'll get a photo or two of it on a wildboar skin I have.

Have you shot the 30 grain Berger in yours? Looks like it is the right weight bullet for the Remington twist.

quote:

Originally posted by Cliff Lyle:
Got a report from a buddy in Maryland today that says this round is really good medicine on fox and smaller varmints. This might be a good alternative to the 17 hmr that has been discussed in a different thread.
Does anyone have experience with this round?

I've stopped using my HMR since buying a Remington Model 7 CDL in .17 Rem Fireball.

I've found that it's good to at least 300 yards for rabbits and 200-250 yards on foxes. This is using reloads with 25 grain Berger HP.

Got to play with the round, and did some load development for a friends TC, that involved 15 different powders behind a 20 grain V Max...

came up with some loads that gave one 22 caliber or so sized hole at 100 yds...

same loads were all over the place as soon as the wind kicked up...

so I didn't purchase one for myself, even tho I picked up a die set, and a bag of brass for it..

I see it as a good calling round, but not a high volume shooting round when out shooting Prairie Dogs or Sage Rats...they live in windy places, and the wind is not a 17 caliber round's friend...

So I am right back to square one: the 223...and still just as pleased with what it does...

I live in Montana, as in windy.
Without going into a lengthy debate of the .17's which I shoot a lot compared to say a .223 which I also shoot a lot and how they carry in the wind I just ran my load for both on a ballistics program.
In my .223 I shoot the 40 grain V-Max right at 3,700fps, love it. That bullet according to Hornady has a BC of .200. Here's it's load data. Please note the drop and at the far right the wind drift in a 10 mile per cross wind.
.223
Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .223 Remington with 40 grain V-Max
Ballistic Coeff: 0.200
Bullet Weight: 40
Velocity: 3700
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3700 fps 1216 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in -0.00 in
25 yds -0.43 in 3582 fps 1140 fpe 0.021 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.06 in
50 yds 0.47 in 3468 fps 1068 fpe 0.042 sec 0.33 in -0.51 in 0.23 in
75 yds 1.19 in 3356 fps 1000 fpe 0.064 sec 0.76 in -0.40 in 0.53 in
100 yds 1.71 in 3248 fps 937 fpe 0.087 sec 1.39 in -0.24 in 0.97 in
125 yds 2.03 in 3142 fps 877 fpe 0.110 sec 2.22 in -0.01 in 1.54 in
150 yds 2.13 in 3039 fps 820 fpe 0.134 sec 3.27 in 0.28 in 2.24 in
175 yds 2.00 in 2938 fps 767 fpe 0.159 sec 4.55 in 0.63 in 3.08 in
200 yds 1.61 in 2840 fps 716 fpe 0.185 sec 6.08 in 1.07 in 4.07 in
225 yds 0.95 in 2744 fps 668 fpe 0.212 sec 7.89 in 1.59 in 5.25 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2649 fps 623 fpe 0.240 sec 9.99 in 2.20 in 6.59 in
275 yds -1.25 in 2557 fps 581 fpe 0.269 sec 12.39 in 2.92 in 8.09 in
300 yds -2.83 in 2467 fps 540 fpe 0.299 sec 15.12 in 3.74 in 9.77 in
325 yds -4.75 in 2378 fps 502 fpe 0.330 sec 18.19 in 4.68 in 11.62 in
350 yds -7.09 in 2291 fps 466 fpe 0.362 sec 21.68 in 5.76 in 13.72 in
375 yds -9.85 in 2207 fps 432 fpe 0.395 sec 25.59 in 6.99 in 16.05 in
400 yds -13.06 in 2124 fps 400 fpe 0.430 sec 29.94 in 8.39 in 18.60 in
425 yds -16.72 in 2042 fps 370 fpe 0.466 sec 34.75 in 9.95 in 21.35 in
450 yds -20.90 in 1962 fps 342 fpe 0.503 sec 40.08 in 11.71 in 24.35 in
475 yds -25.61 in 1884 fps 315 fpe 0.542 sec 45.94 in 13.67 in 27.57 in
500 yds -31.03 in 1809 fps 291 fpe 0.583 sec 52.51 in 15.89 in 31.18 in

Next my .17 Fire Ball/ .17 MachIV load with the 25 grain Hornady v-Max at rounded down to 3,800fps (actually I get 3,850ish).
.17 Fire Ball Hornady claims a .230BC for this bullet.
Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: Remington .17 Fire Ball with 25 grain V-Max
Ballistic Coeff: 0.230
Bullet Weight: 25
Velocity: 3800
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3800 fps 802 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.51 in 3695 fps 758 fpe 0.020 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.06 in
50 yds 0.32 in 3592 fps 716 fpe 0.041 sec 0.31 in -0.52 in 0.21 in
75 yds 0.98 in 3492 fps 677 fpe 0.062 sec 0.72 in -0.41 in 0.46 in
100 yds 1.46 in 3395 fps 640 fpe 0.084 sec 1.30 in -0.26 in 0.80 in
125 yds 1.76 in 3299 fps 604 fpe 0.106 sec 2.07 in -0.05 in 1.28 in
150 yds 1.85 in 3206 fps 571 fpe 0.129 sec 3.04 in 0.21 in 1.88 in
175 yds 1.73 in 3115 fps 539 fpe 0.153 sec 4.22 in 0.54 in 2.59 in
200 yds 1.40 in 3026 fps 508 fpe 0.177 sec 5.63 in 0.93 in 3.40 in
225 yds 0.82 in 2938 fps 479 fpe 0.202 sec 7.26 in 1.39 in 4.34 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2852 fps 452 fpe 0.228 sec 9.15 in 1.93 in 5.42 in
275 yds -1.10 in 2768 fps 425 fpe 0.255 sec 11.32 in 2.56 in 6.66 in
300 yds -2.49 in 2686 fps 400 fpe 0.283 sec 13.77 in 3.28 in 8.04 in
325 yds -4.17 in 2605 fps 377 fpe 0.311 sec 16.52 in 4.10 in 9.56 in
350 yds -6.16 in 2526 fps 354 fpe 0.340 sec 19.57 in 5.02 in 11.22 in
375 yds -8.48 in 2447 fps 332 fpe 0.370 sec 22.96 in 6.06 in 13.04 in
400 yds -11.17 in 2371 fps 312 fpe 0.401 sec 26.71 in 7.22 in 15.03 in
425 yds -14.27 in 2295 fps 292 fpe 0.433 sec 30.88 in 8.53 in 17.23 in
450 yds -17.80 in 2221 fps 274 fpe 0.467 sec 35.47 in 9.99 in 19.63 in
475 yds -21.77 in 2149 fps 256 fpe 0.501 sec 40.51 in 11.61 in 22.22 in
500 yds -26.19 in 2077 fps 240 fpe 0.537 sec 45.99 in 13.40 in 24.99 in

Please note that at 500 yards which in my opinion is an unreasonable distance for both loads the fire Ball drifts 6.19 inches less than the .223 and drops 4.84 inches less, so unless your shooting a much heavier bullet with a higher BC faster the diminutive little Fire Ball more than holds it's own wind or no. My .223 load uses 27.5 grains of BenchMark and is actually a hair under 3,700fps while my .17 MachIV uses 19.1 grains of H335 and as stated on a warm day is right at 3,850ish.
The heavier .223 bullet will be a lot more dramatic as in parts and particles raining down but recoil such as it is at least in my .223 takes me off target for a second so I miss most of it anyway. The .17 Fireball will generate less heat, less recoil (ya see all your hits or misses ). Oh, and cheaper to shoot.
So from a guy that spends most of his shiftless retired life shooting ground squirrels, P-dogs, rock chucks etc. Trust me the .17 Fire Ball is a gas!! To me efficiency is way cool .
Ballistics are ballistics and BC, bullet weight and velocity determine wind drift, not bore diameter.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
--- Trust me the .17 Fire Ball is a gas!! To me efficiency is way cool

Yeah to that.

I have fat fingers....the tiny 17 cal bullet would be a PIA to handload...I do have a heavy 20 Vartarg (20 Fireball) and it plays hell on p/dogs..40 V max @ 3550 fps...

I'm also using the 17 FB in an XP-100 handgun for both coyotes fur hunting and prairie dogs. I'm getting about 3400 with the 25 Hornady (PD's). And with the 6-18x Nikon Buckmasters scope i have made some 1st shot connections with it at right around the 500 yd. mark.

During the winter it wears a 4-12x Burris Mini, and i'm good to between 250-300 yds. on coyotes with a well-placed shot using the heavier 28's-30's.

just finish loading 250 rounds of it for a friend's T/C chambered in one...

Still trying to warm up to the round...

seems like to be a fun round.. but still when compared to a 223, I'll take the 223 any day...

but with a V Max on it, it sure is a cute round that says "let's go waste some varmints!"

Seafire as much as I love those .17's armed_in_utah is on to something with that .20 VarTarg. With the possible exception of the fox idea for fur. I say that cause not to hijack the thread but I popped two rock-chucks yesterday with the .20 VarTarg. Both the .17 Fire Ball or the .20 VarTarg would kill em deader'n fried chicken but if ya happened to wish to keep the fur........Well, you decide. (Gory Pics, sorry!)

.20 VarTarg 230 to 240ish yards. The one on the right has a little flap of skin that was the top of it's head and the rest of it is MIA, it was a side hit.



This one was shot by my wife with a .17 at a bit over 200 and you can't even find blood! He just stopped dead with his tail twitching.



If that top one is out of line here I'll remove it sorry.

Doug,

My concerns on varmints is that I am addicted to the red mist factory....

the bang flop potential of the 17 is the one other thing, besides wind deflection, that keeps me from taking the dive...

the 250 rounds of 17 Fireball I just loaded for an older buddy, we used those 20 grain TNT HPs that he bought from Mid South...

I am anxious to see how they do on sage rats...

On the 17 Fireball tho, I have been thinking seriously (with some appeal) to one with a 18 inch heavy magnum contoured barrel, with a shortened stock ( ala Ruger Frontier)..

kind of like the barrel contour on the Ruger 22 Mag Heavy Barrel version...

sort of making one into a handy "truck gun" size...

Try the 20 V-Max Seafire a few more $$ but lot's more pop. Personally if it's a 1 in 9 twist which the Remington's are the 25V-Max is the pick of the litter IMO. As that chart above shows it is actually better in the wind than my personal 40 grain V-Max .223 load is. Then we come to the "red mist" factor and while the .20 VarTarg'll give it to ya the .17 Fire Ball not so much. It does wreck em pretty good but not the delivered energy of a heavier bullet. The trade off is that ya never leave the target under recoil so what all it does you get to see. Here's a picture of a p-dog my wife back shot with a 25V-Max out of a .17MachIV at a bit over 325 Leica'd yards. WAY dead but not exploded, she did get to see all the action in the scope (I've created a monster ). There is no discernible difference in performance between the .17MachIV and .17Fire Ball.



Seafire ya hang out at the barber shop long enough and sooner or later your gonna end up with a haircut, you keep messing with these "fun", "little" rounds and sooner or later your gonna end up with one . Trust me, you'll be glad ya did. Cheap to feed, no heat to speak of, accurate, see all the action, brass lasts near forever, quiet, there's a lot to like here!! And the really great part is you can still keep your .223, I just bet ya don't shoot it quite as much .

I shoot a 17Rem. I did some research before deciding which 17 to opt for and found the 17rem just had the edge over the rest.

Perfect for rabbits out to 330yards and foxes out to 220yards using 25gr Berger pills. Anything from 150 and under you just get bits and pieces left lying around.

quote:

Originally posted by sscoyote:
I'm also using the 17 FB in an XP-100 handgun for both coyotes fur hunting and prairie dogs. I'm getting about 3400 with the 25 Hornady (PD's). And with the 6-18x Nikon Buckmasters scope i have made some 1st shot connections with it at right around the 500 yd. mark.

During the winter it wears a 4-12x Burris Mini, and i'm good to between 250-300 yds. on coyotes with a well-placed shot using the heavier 28's-30's.

Sounds cool !!!!
I shoot with a whole bunch of small caliber guys and while I usually don't mention it cause I don't want to start an argument or sound like an internet windstorm but I can't tell you how how many p-dogs I've seen killed at 500+ yards with MachIV's and the like. Done it myself. Great fun, and congrats on the fine shooting!!
Ya oughta post a picture of your Handgun.

Well Doug,

you talking up the 20 Vartag over the 17 Fireball, gets me going again to the other round I have been on the door step with....

the 20 BR...

just got my first custom barrel for the Savage Platform, in 7/08...

however maybe the 20 BR will be the next procurement...

I really like that saying tho you had...
" if you hang around the barber shop long enough you'll eventually get a hair cut.."
Now that's funny right thar, I don't care who ya are!

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well Doug,

you talking up the 20 Vartag over the 17 Fireball, gets me going again to the other round I have been on the door step with....

the 20 BR...

just got my first custom barrel for the Savage Platform, in 7/08...

however maybe the 20 BR will be the next procurement...

I really like that saying tho you had...
" if you hang around the barber shop long enough you'll eventually get a hair cut.."
Now that's funny right thar, I don't care who ya are!

That ones a rocket seafire! A 40 grain V-Max at 4,000+fps, you will most definitely have red mist with that one!!