Hi all.
I would like to keep the fur from the foxes I shoot at winter time, but I’m a bit uncertain about which bullets and velocity. Say a 40 or 50 grs v-max, will 4000fps impact be so violent that the fur is ripped to pieces, and maybe a more relaxed v-max in .222 rem velociy will be better fur-like? I have a 22-250 btw.

I’m new to the whole fur business, and have used a drilling in 7x57R with Sierra Varminter during summer time. No one wants that fur, I can tell you.

The 4000fps is the "killer" in that deal. I shot a beautiful fox last spring with a .223 Contender handgun at 177 yards with a 50 gr. VMax. There was a 1/2" hole in the hide easily hidden on my full body mount.
I've been shooting deer/groundhogs with a 6mm AI handgun and 85 gr. Nosler PTs. Very small hole and 1/2" damage, but everything falls at the shot including deer at 352 and 401.
You might get by with 40 gr. VMaxes. It's the only bullet I've used in my .22-250 handguns that has never exited a groundhog or deer, no matter the range or size.
You're right on the reduced velocity. It will work.

Keep the velocity down a bit less than 3000fps and use either 35 or 40gr v'max. should be ok with chest hits.
Don't hit heavy bones though.

The 35's are only good n accurate out to less than 200yds, then they go nuts for accuracy. re: "all over the hillside" is what they did for me in .223.

Depending on range, a 17 M2, or HMR or some such would be perfect.

I use a .17 made from a necked down 5.7 case. 20gr v'max, about 3460fps does just wonderful. Kills 'em quick, no damage, just a 17 hole going in.

I shot one about 40yds with a 30gr?? in .17 Rem and destroyed it, nearly blew it in half. Too much velocity again makes too big an explosion.

Good luck, and have fun,
George

Thank you. This means my theory is not that bad.I’m not good enough shooter to go beyond 200 yards anyway.

So if i keep 40 grs v-max or Varmageddon around 3000 fps, the odds are good for keeping the fur somewhat ok. Heavier bullets is a «no go»?

I took it you have 222 ? load it down 40gr vmax bluedot around 2200f/s leaves a clean little hole

A bit more. I used to call a lot of coyotes. At first I used 55gr C/L in .223. They'd blow big holes on the exit. Once I changed to 40gr v'max. They don't exit. Just hit in the ribs.
When a shoulder is hit they can and will blow big chunks out sometimes. Seldom had a mess using these light bullets. Even fairly close in when called.

Not many fox out here in most areas. Coyotes kill or run 'em off.

By far best to call 'em in. Be ready, gun shouldered and steady, aimed where you want them for a shot. I like 50-75 yds. When they get where you want them and you're ready to fire. Bark with your mouth. "just woof", they'll stop and look. Don't hesitate then, let 'em have it. You've 5 seconds to get the shot made before they'll either come on in and no stopping them then. OR they'll split for good.

George

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
I took it you have 222 ?

No, I don’t. I have a 22-250, and don’t want to buy another small game cartridge. So I’m looking into the possibility of reducing charge on 22-250. Where I hunt, it will not be fartjer away than 200 yards, mostly much closer.

So, @Georgeld, what you are saying is 40 grs V-max/Varmageddon in normal .223 velocity should be fine most times? If so, it should not be a problem to make .223-like charged in my 22-250.

I use a 220 Swift loaded to 3800 FPS, My bullet is a Serria 55gr. HPBT it doesn't exit but sure makes a mess of the heart lung area.

the entrance hole isn't to hard to sew up except a glanceing shot into a rib bone but those are rare.


Al

I have had good luck using 55gr Sierra game king soft points. It's a tough bullet and not explosive in my experience. I have shot both coyotes and bobcats using it....the bullet exits with a dime size hole.

I use 33.5gr of H380 in my 22-250, it's not a hot load but is very effective.

Being from Scandinavia, how big is a coyote and bobcat compared to a normal vixen/fox? I assume coyotes are twice the size?

Coyote is about the physal size of a Greman shepard dog.
A big ones will run from 40 to 50 pounds.
Adverage is 35 pounds in this area.


Al

Been having computer troubles lately.

You do the comparisons. I loaded 25gr 4895 with both the 40's and 55's in my Sako L461 .223.
55's blew big holes on exit everytime.
40's just punched the small hole in and no exit ever with chest hits. I avoid shoulder shots always for fur.

Stay AWAY FROM BLUE DOT! Dangerous stuff with reduced loads. Blown up a lot of guns.

Find some other powder that's safer. Just because this guy above has used it without problems only means he's been DAMNED Lucky!! So far.

Coyotes in Colorado run around 20-30lbs, don't recall killing one over that. Most are mid '20's.
I understand they get bigger back east. Maybe from not running so much, or wolf blood, and lots more whitetails to eat. Could be a combination of these.

Good luck with your game plans.

George

Thank you for a very informative answer. I will most likely use Norma and Vihtavuori powders.

I use a Sierra #1410 HPBT 52 gr MatchKing in my .223 Rem single-shot.

Swift killing but not destructive on fox and coyote.

Same bullet in a .222 Rem used to just "Poof" the dust off a woodchuck and they would fall over. Poked with a foot they would slosh inside.

If you are interested in a different caliber, try a 6X45. I rebarreled a 223 and shoot 55 BT with small exit holes. No blow up. I haven't cronied them yet, but about 3600 FPS.

Aresm:

You've gotten some very strange and very misleading answers thus far.

First, a fox is much smaller than a coyote or a bobcat (although coyotes are usually about half the size of what one poster told you.)

People who use an ultra-explosive, ultra-fast bullet for coyotes on the theory that the bullet won't exit the chest are often successful -- when they hit the chest just right. As was mentioned, such bullets often take out a chunk of hide on the entry side if they strike physiological resistance. But the big problem with attempting to use such bullets for foxes in a like manner is that foxes are much smaller and their chest cavity may not retain the bullet, thus creating a gaping exit wound in the offside hide.

As far as the 35 grain V-max, well I have used it in a downloaded .22 Hornet at just 2,000 fps. I cut a rabbit in half with this load and it sprayed prairie dog parts over half a county. The bullet is very effective for what it is designed for, but I would expect it to make minced meat of a fox regardless of its velocity.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned simply using a full metal jacket bullet. It is certainly not a sure thing that one won't mess up a fox hide, but mostly they will simply penetrate in a straight line, leaving small entry and exit wounds. Keep the velocity as low as practical.

Even better would be HARD cast lead bullets. At relatively low velocities a bullet cast with a high percentage of antimony will not deform at all, and due to their typical shape they tend not to tumble like a jacketed FMJ.

The lack of expansion of either the FMJ or the hard cast lead bullet will be no problem with an animal as small as a fox. If hit in the vitals it won't go far, anyway.

The .224 bullet least likely to exit small critters, IME, is/was the 50 gr Remington PLHP. Sadly discontinued. We shot them out of Swifts and .22-250s at 3850-4100 fps MV.

Usually no exit on woodchucks, or at worst a linear/jagged less than 1/2" exit (probably from bone fragment).

In this particular regard it had no peer. And we tried offerings from Sierra, Hornady, Speer, eieio.

I ended up with a 40 grs Sierra Hornet bullet. I loaded it with some Shotgunpowder (Lovex S035, similar burn rate to Green Dot) and worked it up from 2150 fps to 2360 fps with a 10 grain powder load. Very nice accuracy, and with a SD of 9 fps for 7 shots, I think I found the right medicine for up to 120 yards.

Anyway, thank for the info along the way. Now I need a fox to try it on. That's the hard part.

If I am trying to save pelts, I load up 55 grain FMJ's in my 22-250. Pencil hole both sides. But in Arizona pelts are not worth squat so I don't use that method very often.

quote:

Originally posted by MyNameIsEarl:
... pelts are not worth squat so I don't use that method very often.

It is still worth keeping the wife warm, isn't it?

All these ideas of saving fur work most of the time but none of them work everytime..If you hit bone, its a disaster, if you use solids they work but even with a 22-250 the fox might get away and die, and no blood trail...Its just iffy...A super fast 40 gr. pill that comes apart like a bomb inside a coyote is your best bet, but again some times it will blow them up..If anyone comes up with a fool proof way to get it done everytime Id like to know about it, but because it work a half dozen times in a row means nothing, so I suspect you roll the dice and see what comes up..

Ray, that's just about the total facts of life
with coyotes, cats and fox.
IF you shoot 100 of 'em, 10 will be wrecked too much to save without LOT's of sewing.

Aresm: where you located?
Sounds like you just need a bunch of practice with the longer range shooting. Any pr/dogs in your area? With a bit of practice a 400yd p/dog is just about right.

That's the best practice there is. Many times we've taken the big bores out a month or three before hunting season. Damned good ranging and shooting practice. Dad even used his .375 a few times for a few shots. Mostly just for the "Kicks"

Funny thing, I only had an '06 for many years. Loaded hot 110's for p/dogs. No meat left, just a red sprayed triangle til the mist runs out. Might fine a head sometimes way off in the distance. I've shot thousands of 'em with that load. Sure paid off deer and elk hunting a few times too. OF course with proper bullets.

George

I'm in Scandinavia. Where I hunt, you will not have ranges above 200 yards. Mostly forest all over. I've shot two foxes now with the shotgun powder loaded hornet bullet. Worked perfect, range 60 and 90 yards.

Jack Rabbits are the best tune up for deer and elk season or whatever..

I did some experimenting on chucks this weekend (4th of July) I had some hornet 45 gr. .224 Hornady BEE bullets HOrnady no. 2229..They killed chucks like lightening and not one of them at any range out of the 76 chucks shot got an exit hole..I was shooting them at 3200 FPS plus..I bet they would fit the posters bill just about perfect on a fox and maybe a coyote...They would get inside a fox and explode, just keep it off the shoulder bone on a coyote is probably a good idea.

Give this little bullet a try. Nothing else Ive tried worked worth a flip or with consistency anyway, bett'en this one is the answer?? I will try them on coyotes first chance I get..I like this bullet for shooting around the house on chucks as some housing additions are starting to crowd me on one side..They sure won't bounce, they just disintegrate on brush etc.

Trouble with the hornet out west is wind, a slight breeze will blow a hornet bullet off a foot and a half at 200 yards in windy Idaho on a PD field or Rock Chucks in the Snake River Canyon...