anyone use this round? I am considering building on for ground squirl shooting. Low report and powder friendly. all my shooting is done within 150yrds... Looking at a Savage Model 40.

any thoughts?

Actually,there is really nothing wrong for your purposes with the regular .22Hornet. In a decent rifle and handloaded inteligently(neck sizing brass and keeping pressures sane to promote accuracy and brass life) the regular ol' Hornet fairs well against the "improved" version.

The Savage you mention is not even out in numbers and when it is,will cost about 80% of what a CZ m527 Hornet will.

If I were you, I would get a CZ 527 Hornet and give it a chance,if it does not work out as you would like,then have it "K'd"...

Sound advice. If you reload try Li'l Gun.

I think it is (or may be) worth rechambering for the K-version, but not for velocity gain. Rather, the K-Hornet will allow you to minimize headspace and neck clearance in the new chamber, both of which contribute to better accuracy (I would have the gunsmith set the barrel back a thread and recut the entire chamber rather than just recutting the shoulder). The K-version also is a bit easier to reload and headspaces positively on the shoulder, whereas the regular version needs to headspace on the rim due to the small, sloping shoulder.

I don't try for velocity any greater than I would get from a regular Hornet in my K-version, but I do get excellent accuracy and with low pressure and extended case life.

lots of good imfo - thanks guys.

Sharpsman: the Savage 40 up here is $420cdn + tax, where the CZ 527 Hornet is $800cdn + tax(same dealer). I have had good luck with savages in the past and they all seem to fit me. I do like the CZ's though, but the extra $380 gets me a bipod, dies, brass, bullets... you get the idea this rifle will probably only see 500rds a year as our ground squirl season is ver short and I have to drive 2hrs to get to decent location (and find land owners to alow to me shoot). unfortunetly to many yahoos have to put to many holes in farm eqipment and ruined it for the rest of us. same story everywhere i imagine.

StoneCreek: what kind of velocities are you getting? the few folks I have met with these rifles have always given me a ballpark of 3000fps with a 40gr Vmax moly. seems to be just the ticket for my style of gopher hunting.

I'm used to using a .22LR Cooey 600 with a fixed 4x and lots of belly crawling. a .22-250 is way over kill around here and .223 is a little louder then I would prefer.

again, thanks for the help guys!

I have an Anschutz .22 Hornet it's load is: WW cases, 40 V-Max, 13.2 grains Lil'Gun, WSR primer, it chronos right at 3,000 and shoots bugholes.
I also have a Cooper Montana Varminter K-Hornet it's load is: WW cases, 40 BlitzKing or 40 V-Max (they both shoot to the same point of impact) WSR primers, and Lil'Gun powder for 3,250 ish fps.
A curious side note on my K-Hornet which has a tight chamber is the following.
Fireforming load is the above mentioned components and a charge of 13.1 grains of Lil'Gun, the load chronos right at 3,000fps and is very accurate. Here's the wierd part. After the cases are formed if I put 13.1 grains of Lil'Gun back into the case and load as above it blows the primers at 3,400 ish fps. In formed cases the load is 12.2 grains of Lil'Gun at 3,250ish and again, shoots bugholes. Very effecient case design, sure was a head scratcher figuring it out when I first got the rifle.
Either way you go you'll love it!

A,

I had no idea that the CZs cost that much in Canada compared to the Savage.Her in the states the differnce would be about $100 US dollars...

In that case,go with the Savage.

Montdoug: Good tips - Thanks!

Shapsman: Gun prices in Canada are absoultly retarded. when I see what you guys pay for a Rem 700 @ walmart it makes me wat to gry. here the basic model is $900 + Tax. Savage seems to make a fair amount of their firearms In Ontario - thats the only reason they are value priced here.

In the small capacity rifle cartridge world there is one cartridge that stands clearly head and shoulders above the rest.



It has no wierd shoulder problems. It is inherently accurate like the venerable 308 and 223. It displays NONE of the finicky characteristics of the Hornet's spawn.



It's the diminutive 221 fireball cartridge.



This cartridge can easily approach a 223 in velocity if pushed a bit, especially in short barrels.



It has spawned a couple of successful wildcats such as the 17 Mach IV, and 300 Whisper.



The cases are hell for tough and easily download to 22magnum velocities.



For quiet report and serious versatility load it with Lil' Gun from Hodgdon.



To find a rifle chambered for 221 Fireball just go to www.gunbroker.com and type "fireball" into the search engine...



$bob$

LDH,



PLEASE,PLEASE, share with us poor, ignorant owners of .22Hornets that are completely HAPPY with them-WHAT WEIRD SHOULDER PROBLEMS are you talking about??



Really,I'd like to know!



Perhaps I have missed something I should be upset about..

Hornet shoulder and neck problems are a matter of history and among knowledgeble reloaders are a known aggravating factor. Some people are willing to put up with it and some ask the question why even bother?



There are other cases that offer the same, if not more performance, with none of the inherent problems of the Hornet case.



Here are a few references. Look at your loading manuals for more.



Here's One



Here's Another



And Another



One More



The Last One I'm Looking Up For You



You might want to call Sierra, Hornady, etc. technicians to discuss the Hornet's inherent thin neck problems and how to work around them.



The Lee Collet die offers a reasonable solution.



The 22 Hornet cases are not very durable and the necks are very thin so care should be taken during resizing and bullet seating not to crush the case. The thin necks also lend to case stretching. Check the overall case length each time the case is loaded.



Like I said... Why? There are several other cases such as the Fireball that offer similar and/or improved performance without the weaknesses of the Hornet.



$bob$ (The Narrow Minded One )

Ya know LDH ,I usually only critisize things I have DIRECT experience with..



I would be willing to bet you have NEVER owned a Hornet!!



As to your "references" about the Hornets "difficulties", it's simply more more "Hoodoo and Bunkum" from folks who HAVE NEVER PROPERLY HANDLOADED ONE!!!



BTW,Lee collet dies don't work with MANY different cartridges,not just the Hornet! Bad example...



Craig Boddington is not exactly known as an authority on precision handloading or varmint rifles.This is a man who admitted in PRINT just this year that he had NEVER shot a 17HMR until May of this year!Nearly THREE YEARS went by until he finally "discovered" it.



Yep, he's really on top of everything when it comes to Varmint calibers..Really,just ask him...



He's just a TYPICAL gun writer who finds it easier to REPEAT HALF TRUTHS than to FIND OUT the real facts by doing things for himself.The great .220 Swift cartridge suffered from that same crap from gun writing hacks for years.

I prefer to base my thoughts on my own EXPERIENCE.



To date ,I have worked extensively with the following cartridges in 24 different rifles over the last 25 years.



.17Rem(2)- Sako A1 Sporter,Sako A1 Varmint)

.22Hornet(4) H&R topper , Browning Model 1885 Low walls(3)

.222(4)Sako HB, 2 Rem m700HB, and Mauser M4000)

.223(4)-Sako shilen barrel custom,Mark X Mini Mauser,Kimber m84,CZ m527 American)

.22-250(7)

-Browning B-78,Browning 1885(2),Remington m700 HBs(2) Ruger m77Varmint,Ruger M77mkII Varmint.

.22 Swift(3)

Ruger No1 Varmint,Ruger m77 Varmint(2)



Note I have not owned a .221 Fireball(and surely don't see the need to as long as there are good Hornets out there)



I have never had a problem with the the Hornet brass(what part of NECK SIZING don't you understand) and I might also add then when chambered in decent rifles and loaded with good bullets,the Hornets have shoot as well as ANY of the .22 cal cartridges on that list!All of the guns I have worked with in the above calibers was capable of 3/4 MOA or better with a little tuning and load work and about half of thoise would do under 1/2MOA.



I found no one "magic" round to work with and as a matter of fact,the SMALLEST groups I got with all of those rifles at 100 yards came from the Hornets and the 17Rem! Two cartridges that are full of "problems" if you cite any gunwriter who "knows" anything at all.Two of the LEAST accurate were one of the .222s and one of the .223s!

Sharpsman,

Yes.. I've owned 3 Hornets and found them to be reasonably accurate but the thin necked brass had short life, crushed easily when seating bullets, and was finicky <sp?>

I just finished reading a fair amount on the small caliber forum about Hornet's and it seemed that the general concensus there supports my opinions.

By the way.. Did I mention accuracy in my first message?

Seems you got your panties in a wad and are knee jerking here.

If you are denying that the Hornet has a painfully thin neck then you'll find yourself the subject of a good bit of ridicule amoung knowledgeable reloaders.

If the Hornet doesn't have so many problems then why is the K Hornet so popular and why are people constantly complaing about brass life and trying to get velocities up to 222 levels?

I dunno... Seems like there's just no reason to Hornet when you can Fireball.

To each his own and I wish you luck with your Hornets.

$bob$

owning a fireball in canada would be a HUGE pain in the ass. First I would have to get someone to order me one in (as I have NEVER seen one at any gunshop). Probably the Rem 700 LVSF , which is well over twice what the savage in .22 hornet is. brass is damn near impossible to find up here. have to get dies ordered in.... list goes on.

I kill lots of ground squils with a 40+ yr old cooey .22lr, so a .22hornet is just on the edge of overkill


thanks for all the info guys - good stuff. anyone recomend a bullet weight for a 1 in 14" twist? 35gr? 40gr?

Actaully ,the 1-14 twist should be fine for any bullet up to 45g.
I have always found the best accuracy and downrange performnace with a 40g Bal.Tip,VMax or Blitz King bullet in the Hornet...

Your 1:14 twist will likely stabilize anything up to the length of the Sierra 52 gr HPBT Match, mine have, and with fine accuracy. Having said that, you will likely find the 40 gr VMAX or BT you best choice for velocity and accuracy.

One possible caveat regarding Li'l Gun, some have reported wide swings in velocity when using the light bullets with this powder and it was my experience as well. After months of trying to make them work I went back to the 45 gr Hornady Hornet and said 5 shots in .7" was good enough for a 200-250 yard gun. Velocities a bit over 3000 fps with 12.7 gr. Not everybody has the same experience BTW. Some guns do very well with the powder and light bullets.

I've owned 2 Hornets and a K, all shoot/shot very well and for the life of me I cannot imagine a better cartridge for the application on things 'yote size and smaller at reasonable distances. I think comparing it to the .221 Fireball is an apple and oranges comparison. I'm not especially dexterious but have never crushed a case mouth on a hornet case. I did punch a case mouth into my thumb once..... I've never found the case to be short lived either, and note that annealing the necks after 5-7 firings can make a lot of cases last years. It's not high tech, I use a small oil lamp to do this.

Every time I read the phrase "inherently accurate" I twitch a little. It makes me think of hidden agendas and "inherent gullibility". What's in your gun rack?

Well.. It's obvious I'm not a Hornet fan but if anyone is looking for the Ruger 77 I just ran across one for sale.

I just bought another rifle from this guy and he treated me extremely fairly and bent over backward to make sure I was happy. The rifle was also exactly as he said it was.

Anyway here's the link.

77 MkII Hornet

$bob$

When will people ever get that a K-Hornet is not the same as a Hornet. This seems to be guilt by association.

I do think the thread was about a K-Hornet. There are no funky case problems with the K version. That is why it exists.

But, .221 FB is pretty good too.