Before I buy or build a 17 HM2, does anyone have experience shooting ground squirrels with one?

We have a small squirrel that we call a sage rat that looks like a miniature prairie dog and has the same social and colony type habits. It is my prime varmint target. I am using .22 LR, 17 HMR, 22 Mag, and .221 Fireball from a rifle on them now. I am hoping that Ruger will soon bring out a 10/17HM2 soon, otherwise I will have to assemble one. Since the 17HM2 shoots the same bullet as the 17HMR but 400 FPS slower, I am
curious if it still performs well. Any thoughts?

Old elk hunter,
I heard from a gun dealer, that ruger wasn't going to make a 10/17 because of low recoil reasons from that I understood that the shell wasn't giving enough recoil to kick the action back. the dealer said they were in the catalog and now their not. So who knows

That's interesting because AGI, the American Gunsmithing Institute, sent me a warning that the 17HM2 required that the mass of the breach be INCREASED to avoid hammering the action and another problem related to the breach block coming back too soon due to the internal ballistics of the 17HM2 having its peak power earlier than a typical 22 LR. There are kits available to convert to 17HM2 that include a heavier action handle that in effect increases the mass of the recoiling breachblock/handle assembly to build in the needed delay in the action cycling. Marlin is making a semi-auto in 17HM2 that appears to be made on their 22 Magnum semi-auto. Also Volquartsen (sp?) is selling a breachblock for the 17HM2 that is heavier than the standard 22 LR breachblock.

I was hoping that Ruger would bring out a well engineered solution that would cost less than the currently available kits. Sorry to hear that they aren't too hot on the idea.

Elk Hunter..

You have it right on the money about the slide veolcities and the 17M2 in semi-autos.
You notice Ruger has not even released any factory 10/17s in the Magnum version either?

Marlins new m717 is not based on the older m922 action, although it sort of looks similar.It is actually a m795 .22lr reciver than has been beefed up at the rear by taking the rear of the recevier stright up from the back edge,creating a sqaure back as on a Ruger 10/22.They did that to increase the size of the breech block (more weight)The barreled action has the same inletting "footprint" in the stock,too.MArlin did that so a minimum of new parts would be required.Their new m717s list at the same price as the other .22LR semi-autos they make,so we should see them in Wally World soon at very reasonable prices..

FWIW,The differnce between the two 17 cal rimfire cartridges is MORE than 400 FPS ,too.Really.
The factory's velocity numbers are too modest for the 17HMR(amazingly enough) and too darn optomistic for the 17M2(who'd have thunk it!).

Real world velocites show an AVERAGE across the board of JUST over 2,000FPS for the 17M2 in real guns with real ammo.Some guns only do 1,950!

The real world AVERAGE velocites of the same 17g bullets in a 17HMR are right at 2,600 FPS + in most rifles.Now remember,that is with the SAME bullets ie 17g Vmaxes in each round in the same brand of ammo.

Yes- some 17M2 rifles on warm days will barely do the factory claimed 2,100FPS..BUT on those same warm days many 17HMRs will clock over 2,700FPS -no joke..

Some 17 HMRs have clocked averages nearly 2,800FPS in guns like Anschutz sporters with longer barrels and very smooth bores..

So IMHO,the real world difference is 600 FPS.When you plug that into a ballistics program that means the 17HMR has nearly DOUBLE the range in FT Lbs of the 17M2.

The factories did not tell folks this a year ago,in there 17M2 advertising and why should they? The 17HMR was ALREADY an astounding success and the 17m2 was a new product they were trying to sell.They were trying to convince folks that the new 17M2 would provide most of the 17HMRs' performance at half the price.-Well,it doesn't.

One of the biggest ammo distributors in the US-Graf and sons in Mexico, MO is still constantly back ordered on some 17HMR loads and yet they have PALLETS full of 17M2 ammo they can not GIVE away! What is wrong with this picture is that mainly due to the lack of cheap easily avaiable semi auto 17m2 rifles,ammo sales have not been too hot.

Now that folks have actually gotten their hands on the 17m2 ammo and chronographed it,that is a source of disappointment as well.

If your shots on the vermin are not going to be longer than about 125 yards,I say get the 17M2.

If you want to regularly nail 'em out to 200+,get the 17HMR..

I already have a 17HMR in a Marlin bolt gun. It is definitely higher quality than the older Marlin bolts. Same design, just better execution. I bought it to use when I didn't want to have to reload but wanted a decent 150 to 200 yard varmint gun. So far it has exceeded my expectations. I also use a .22 Hornet and a .221 Fireball in rifles (cz527's).
I will probably rebarrel the .22 Hornet since there is no need for it with the .221 Fireball exceeding it performance wise, yet is cheap and easy to reload.

I was thinking of the 17Hm2 for sage rats only. I guess I'll just buy another Marlin bolt gun if I buy the 17hm2 at all.

OEH,

Yep,that's what I would do if I were in your shoes.Get another Marlin bolt in the 17m2 and then you will have an equal basis of comparison..

The newer Marlins in the 17 cals are true bargains in the shooting world.Lot's of performance for the buck..

Yesterday I had a fun day with the 17 HMR and sage rats. It is simply amazing how well the 17 HMR anchors the belding ground squirrels. The DO NOT MOVE after being hit. Over 50% of their body is turned to mush. Some vibrate for a few seconds as they realize they have been hit, but none move. This is so much better than
a .22 LR. It is even better than the .22 LR Stingers from CCI which I now use almost exclusively becuase of their great terminal performance. I guess I will just pass on the 17 HM2. For the cost of the rifle I can buy a bunch of 17 HMR ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Old Elk Hunter:
Yesterday I had a fun day with the 17 HMR and sage rats. It is simply amazing how well the 17 HMR anchors the belding ground squirrels. The DO NOT MOVE after being hit. Over 50% of their body is turned to mush. Some vibrate for a few seconds as they realize they have been hit, but none move. This is so much better than
a .22 LR. It is even better than the .22 LR Stingers from CCI which I now use almost exclusively becuase of their great terminal performance. I guess I will just pass on the 17 HM2. For the cost of the rifle I can buy a bunch of 17 HMR ammo.

Hoe big are those CA ground squirrels?

I saw a few pics of about 100 of them lined oput which a guy in N.CA had taken and the darn things look as big and fat as out adult black tailed prairie doags out here!

Anyway the 17HMR was wildcatted in the 1980s by CA Benchret and groundsquirrel shooters as an ideal non reloadable carrtridge for them.So it makes sense it works well on them.
When the PDs are young and dumb out here they are a LOT of fun to shot with the 17HMR.LAter in the year I start with the 17 and them move up to the centerfires as they get gunshy.

It's a lot of fun..

If "CA" means California, I know little about the California ground squirrels. I was born in California but I've been an Oregonian by choice for the last 45 years. The squirrels I shoot are commonly called sage rats but are actually Belding ground squirrels and look just like a miniature prairie dog. They are 6 to 8 inches long and have the same social habits as a praire dog and live in colonies. The ground squirrels I remember from California are the same as the squirrels we call grey diggers up here. I am not 100% sure what the correct name is for them.

With California's new gun laws I don't think I will be going down there to shoot anything.