What jager said. I have seen coyotes go aways with well placed 55s. Shoot them into some milk jugs and that will sum it up for you. Step up to 85-100 grainers for deer. Cheers!

Hello Guys,
Maybe i'm amiss on something, but what do ya'll think about
using the 55 grain ballistic tip on whitetail deer? I think it's not the smartest thing to do. I know with the perfect neck/head shot, it'll work, but as a practice, out of a 6mm caliber, where do ya'll stand on it?
Thanks,
Trigger

No, especially the 6mm 55 grainer. Step up to an 85-100 grain soft point, shoot em behind the shoulder where you are supposed to and be happy.
Matt

Wasn't this asked somewhere else by someone else?

Maybe just de ja vue?

To me the question is why would you want to use such a light bullet and run the risk of losing a majestic animal?
Sure it's possible to kill the animal, but it's also quite likely it's going to be able to run off and not be located.
There's just no way I can see it being worth the risk. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

This is the same topic you replied to in the big game forum!!

Quote


Bullshit.
I shot a 105 lb spikehorn with the 243 Winchester supreme 55 gr BT. First and last time I try that.
Perfect broadside shot. 55 yards. The bullet traveled down the rib cage, and exited the briscuit. One piece of shrapnel pierced some sort of artery by chance, and I recovered the animal. Mind you ,that factory load runs between 3850-3950 fps.
Theres no reason to use that bullet on any deer sized game.
I could'nt even get a pass through on a 45 lb coyote.
The 55 grain BT is a terrific mess maker on varmints and stuff, but it's no deer bullet.
Trigger

Milosmate

Milo et al:

Notice the first word of the response. " bullshit"

What a friendly way to respond to another members response.
This is from someone who had a failure on something, to a guy who had success using the same set up.

Who knows if it was shot placement or what. It doesn't really matter. Point is there is no logical reason to respond to another person with that type of answer. Yet why is it someone can shout slander at one guy right off the bat, but then the slandershouter, can't take the same language in return.

Sounds like someone kind of missed the concept of courtesy and mutual respect for others, yet must be "special" because he gets all upset when he has returned fire. It sounds like being a little overly self centered in my book.

By posting the same question on a different forum, he is just looking to get others on "his side" to prove a point, and discredit some of those people who had a different experience than he did, or did not feel like putting up with his attitude or his verbal slander.

I see no reason of anything to gain by the gentleman from So Dakota, relating his experience. So he was successful. Why call him names because someone else had the same equipment and had a failure or close to it.

NO one has also noticed the fact that a varmint bullet is a totally diffferent animal when the velocity is down below 3000 fps. IN having them hit a tree as a back stop while testing them for velocity over a chronograph, I noticed that between 2200 to 2800 fps, they were penetrating 8 inches or so of wood.

At over that speed, they were of course not doing so, and under those velocities they were not. But it made me wonder if there was a potential use for youths to hunt with, so I asked for anyone having experience, successful or failure.

I have also gotten the same results on wood using the 60 grain Sierra hollow point with a tree as the backstop. Over the ballistic tip, the Sierra sure made the sawdust fly after it penetrated the tree. Once again in the same velocity ranges.

Yet it states like Oregon a 221 fireball is legal to deer hunt with, even a 22 Hornet. Law states that it has to be a 22 centerfire only. A 223 is used by quite a few folks.

But I am finding varmint bullets are not that necessarily explosive below a certain velocity. I am also finding that a big game ballistic tip and a varmint ballistic tip have the same characteristics when the same velocity is applied:

A big game ballistic tip will still blow up, and most people know that, when the velocity is over 3000 fps or more. Throttle them back to 2800 or less and they penetrate fairly well and do a good job of downing a deer.

Well the varmint bullets seem to do the exact same thing. It is just we expect them to explode, where we don't expect the big game ones to explode. But at the same velocity capacities they act the same way. That is what I have observed.

Anyone wants to call that BS is more than welcome to test it out themselves. Don't take my word for it. Just sharing what I have found out. How it is applied is other people's business.

Cheers and Good arguing/ & /or shooting
seafire

i have used the 55 gr baltip in my 22-250 to shoot every ting from crows and seagull to roe deer and seal who can weight up to 200 kg. one head shoot an they are dead.

Yes it was, as if you have to ask. I figured the guys down here would have more experience with that bullet than some of the folks in the big game forum, therefore, they would have a clue as to what may be humane, and what is more of a crazy stunt.
But I don't have to tell you that, college boy.
Trigger

You know Trigger; If 75% of your conversation was not offensive the people would start taking what you have to say to heart.

I have no problem with your point at all. I can respect it.

But I point out the first word on your original post was "Bullshit" aimed at one person's experience right off the bat. Then I hear about Slob hunters, and leave their habits in the Dakotas and don't talk about it on forum like it is alright or something to that effect.

Maybe folks seem to be touchy elsewhere by your NY standards, but not every place on earth calls their friends derogatory names, " like hey douche bag" and people except it as no big deal.

NY like anywhere else has some great people and not so great. You can call me any name you feel like and I don't have a problem with it, water off of a duck's back.

But I am not going to stand by and let anyone from anywhere jump on someone's case because they have an experience they shared. Murftj had no malicious intentions with his post.

However your response was offensive to him personally and when it continued, I draw a line. It was my original post, so I will moderate it if no one else will. Saeed and staff don't have time to police the sandbox all day.

I tried to diplomatically point that out to you, and I got a "NYCcab driver" response. So a bar room door swings both ways. If you dish it out, you get it back. The latter is offensive to you.

There are a few clowns on here, that just come on to screw with people, but I did not see any of their faces present on here.

Exercise a little courtesy and respect and I am sure it will be returned to you tenfold. Show lack of it, and it will probably be returned 20 fold.

How would you have taken it if anyone's response to your original post started out with " bullshit"??

I don't think very well.

And if you handload, try throttlling a Ballistic Tip down to 2800 fps or less, you may be surprised to find out that it is not necessarily that explosive anymore. Between 2200 to 2800 fps I actually saw them passing thru 8 inches of wood and exiting. Above that velocity they didn't.

Take a regular "hunting" ballistic tip and fire it at speeds over 3100 or so, and it starts acting just like a varmint bullet and explodes also.

Whether for varminting or hunting,either style seems to have the same characteristics at velocities between 2200 and 2800 fps and then over that velocity they seem to have the same effect once again, explosive.

That is observation, not reading it somewhere.

Whether you want it or not, I look forward to your opinions in the future the same as I look to share with other shooters.
Different prospectives improve all of our knowledges.

I guess if one slows the velocity down, you could get more penetration. I called the thought of using the bullet on a deer bullshit, not the persons skills, or observations.
I see no reason to slow a varmint bullet down to make it perform like a big game bullet.
I'm about the furthest thing from some taxi-cab driver you'll ever meet. I'm more of the tell it like it is hill-billy type. I apologize if I did'nt sugarcoat my opinion to suit your comfort level. You are welcome to draw your line anywhere you like, like west of the Mississippi for example, since you still have to dwell on the NYC taxi-driver thing.
Now before you get the impression that i'm attempting to make nice with you, feel free to go get bent if you don't like what I have to say.
Trigger
There, that was only 35% offensive, see i'm trying....

I can only speak from experience using 55 gr. Nosler ballistic tip bullets over the last 13 years in a .223. I have shot around 80 coyotes and 5 deer and nothing ran over 15 yards. These bullets work. Bear in mind I don't trophy hunt for deer and if I was I might step up to a 6mm.

Ive seen a couple posts here refering to .224 cal 55 grain balistic tips. It should be noted the the .224 55 grain B tip has a reputation for better penetration. The 6mm version does not.
Matt

Matt you are correct, the 6mm BT's do not work as well as the .224's. The 6mm does its best work with the 100 gr soft points. Matt how is the CZ working out?

Trigger,

YOU can feel free to direct something slanderous toward me all you like. I still will appreciate your input and your prospective. Just like I do all people's on here.

There are people on here who I know think I am an "idiot" because I have a difference of opinion than they do. However I enjoy reading almost all, if not all of their posts, because they are well written and well thought out. They have taught me that there are no definitive answers on anything in hunting.
We all play the law of averages.

I have seen an effort toward courtesy and I compliment that effort 1000 %. Whether you want my respect or not, it is yours anytime you feel like picking it up or tossing it out.

I don't care if you are a Taxi Cab driver or a Professor at Syracuse or Columbia. I am sure you are a great guy, and I'd enjoy the time to be able to go out hunting with you, like I would almost anyone on this forum, whether they think the way I do or not.

I am surprised at the results I got in my testing as they were not what I expected at all. And then I went out of my way to try to dispell them, but still got the same results.

My goals are light loads for kids, especially first time hunters.
Here in Oregon, they have youth hunts where the dads can go out with their children under 14 or so, and deer hunt with them, either sex. Only the kids can carry and shoot.

I don't get hyped up on energy figures at all. I only rely on what I see and I do a lot of testing in my free time to find out how things perform. When I saw a 55 gr 6mm do to the wood backstop, it showed me more penetration that a 55 grain SP, Ballistic Tip and Hollow Point did. That surprised me.
I figured at least they would be equal.

So I tried a 60 grain Sierra HP in 6mm, and a 60 grain SP in 22 caliber. Once again the 6mm penetrated more! What in the heck is up with this?? was the first thing in my mind.

My thoughts went along the lines, that a 6mm does have more frontal area, which will help. The bullets also seem to be expanding to double their diameter at least, so that is 48 to 50 caliber in a bullet hole, inside.

So many dads I see buy their kids a first rifle in 223 because it does not kick as much as the other ones do. I think a 243 is a much better deer round than a 22 caliber.

However, in the scope of things, say if instead I can recommend a dad to buy a kid a 243 instead of 223, and load a 55 grain or 60 grain bullet that will kick only as much as the 223 and still do the same job, then I am passing on some info to hunters that will benefit everything in the long run.

Instead of the kid using a 223 for a longer time to deer hunt with, if he has the 243, he can take the lighter kicking loads now, and then as he gets bigger just upgrade to more powerful loads, with heavier bullets. A thing the 223 doesn't offer the kid or his dad.

In the long run, I think that is a better scenario or path to follow.

To be perfectly honest, I am a big fan of shot placement.
The less a rifle kicks to a new shooter, ( or kid) the more they are going to adapt to it. The better their shots are going to be.

If the 6mm 55 gr bullet is put in the right place,, it is going to be a lot better than a 12 yr old placing a 100 grain bullet that kicks twice as much into the wrong place or not so right place.

For those of us that can shoot a 338 Mag, the difference in recoil of a 243 with 100 grain bullets or 60 grain bullets is no big deal. However to a new shooter, the 60 grain load at 2800 fps or so, will kick 50 % less or greater than the 100 grain load at 2800.

I think first step is to teach a new shooter shot placement, then second to be able to handle bigger recoil. Instead of teaching them on a 22 LR and then give them a 243 to hunt with, that is a big change for a new shooter.

But instead of loading a 243 with the much lower kick and then they are out hunting with it, ( supervised of course) a better placed shot, and it resulting in a downed deer, will increase their enthusiasm for hunting, instead of wounding a deer with a 100 grain load and a poorly placed shot.

Just thoughts, but I find it logical, so I asked for experiences.

Every year I run across guys who out hunting deer with a 416 Remington or similar ( on our 75 to 90 lb deer), I also run across guys hunting elk with a 243 for a variety of reasons also. So I know I can find people on forums who have experience with about anything that you can think of.

I seek the benefits of their succcesses and failures. It is an integral part of my drawing conclusions. But I like the idea of a deer load with a 55 grain to 75 grain bullet in 6mm on Oregon sized Black tails, because of the recoil factor.

Now I have to analyse from others experience and my experiments if the combo is going to provide the ethical lethality to down the deer, quickly and efficiently.

See from my school of thought, I am seeing more potential on a mid range varmint bullet on deer the size of here, than I would seeing a 416 or 458 used on the local deer. I can see where the deer does not offer enough size and resistance to a 458 or 416 projectile to properly open up at all.

Yet having hunted 250 pound plus deer in Northern Minnesota and Wisconsin, I can see where a large bullet in those calibers would be more practical than here. ON the flip side, I can see where a lighter load bullet would be less practical due to the much bigger size of the deer.

I have seen coyotes and coy dogs in Northern New England when I was in college reach the weight of most of the deer we have in western Oregon, the black tail.

All of this is just logic still in the development stages. But I thank you for your contribution to that research. Describing your bullets failure is an invaluable as hearing about murftj's success with the same combo.

I concluded that you were too close for the velocity that your bullets point of impact was on the deer for it to provide adequate terminal performance. ON murftj's I came to the conclusion that he was much further away from his deer when he pulled the trigger and the point of impact's velocity was much lower than yours and the bullet had a chance to do more adequate terminal performance.

So I test velocity ranges to see where the bullets are penetrating the trees at and where they stop. Then loads are of course made to duplicate the penetration velocities, and we analyse from ballistic charts where the lower velocity occurs, and list that as the limit of effective range for that particular load, say 150 yds, or 200 yds,whereever it falls.

But I also want to put loads together that will discourage new shooters thinking that they should be taking a shot at every deer they see, whether 50 ft or 500 yds.

YOU are welcome at my campfire anytime Trigger, and you can slap me on the back and call me 'a douche bag' to your hearts content. You are a fellow hunter and shooter, and that is all that counts.!

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire