Was wondering if anybody else is using a medium bore magnum for coyotes and such. I have just put together a 338 Remington Ultra mag stainless fluted sendero on a left hand 700. It shoots 1/2 moa to 300 so far. Does seem to have a bit more recoil than a 6mm!! I like to see a big splash out there at the longer ranges and as the 338 RUM has a boat load of energy I have my wish. I have the 180 BT's going out at 3525 fps, realy helps fight the wind/ drop thing. Just checking on feed back to this. Thanks, Jim the Plumber

Jim,
Normally, I use my .338Win.Mag. or my 7mmstw.(I hunt big game with same rifles) But lately, I have been using a 222Rem. because I have been shooting coyotes and wolves out the window of my house. The 222 does not startle the wife and kids as much. Once I nock the numbers of yotes and wolves down a bit, I will go back to using the bigger guns when the opertunity arises.(like when the wife and kids not home)
I don't have a rig like yours but I could sure use one. My fence line/bush line is about 3/4's of a mile.
My coyote rig I have coming will be a 25-284 in a sporter rifle. I need something fast and handy that I can carry on my snowmachine.
Let me know when you whack a coyote with that thing!

Daryl

Last spring I used my .338 win mag for thinning porcupines and had a ball. I used the 200gr Ballistic tip at first but found it didn't have enough splash. ( Imagine that, a tough jacketed BT) I ended up using speer 200gr SP's witch would totally splatter them. Most of the shots were around 125-175 yards but did make a very nice shot at a 300 yard porcupine while he was running. Top end speed for them is 4 mph, so this was not that trick. The best part is when I hunted bear with the same rig the practice with the gun in field positions paid off.

i got my 7mm rem mag set up for varmits. with 120gr. V-max. havent got one yet but I miss an easy shot and the other was a hail mary that missed, but it made him think twice about standing around.

Here's an article I submitted to Varmint Hunter:

Magnum Varmint Rifles?!?!

By Jim Hendrickson

There has been a lot of talk about magnums these days, good and bad. Most of the proponents claim better killing power at longer ranges and quote enough foot-pounds of energy to penetrate a tank. The opponents of the magnums claim overkill and all of the power they generate is not necessary. Well, I guess it�s time for me to put in my two cents worth.

First, let me say I like magnum and standard calibers alike. I like them all because all of them are fun to shoot. I enjoy the magnums more because I think the power they generate makes it more fun. I forgot who said this but it is so true, �You can go to the range and shoot a brick of 22�s or shot 10 magnum rounds have an equal amount of fun.� I don�t go around quoting foot-pounds of energy or other nonsense (though I do study it and know what all of my rifle are capable of, not just the magnums). The point is there is no such thing as overkill. I have to as of yet �overkill� anything (at least none of the animals I shot told me so). I always say �dead is dead, there aren�t varying degrees of it.� Some of the magnum opponent�s claim the magnums tear up more meat. Well this may be true but who cares when your varmint hunting. While on the subject of tearing up too much meat on deer size game and larger, let me ask all of those opponents �Do you eat the rib meat? Do you make steak out of the shoulders, or do you grind it for sausage and hamburger?� If you answer these questions the way most hunters do, then who cares how much meat is destroyed, most of us make hamburger or sausage anyway, so what if you waste a few more ounces. Time to get off my soapbox and back to the subject.

My brother Joseph Knotts and I normally partake on a yearly hunting trip. Whether it�s Jackrabbits, Ducks, Hogs, Groundhogs, or whatever happens to be of interest to us that year. Well we decided on a jackrabbit/hog hunt at the Rio Bonito Ranch a while back. I decided to bring my 7 STW and my 330 Dakota, while Joseph brought his 308 Winchester and 338 Lapua (more on the rifles later). The 33�s were brought in hopes of getting a shot at a hog or two but as luck and the hunting gods would have it we were skunked on them. But did we ever make up for it on the jackrabbits and raccoons. The hunting in Texas is done �safari style�. Basically this means you ride around in a custom truck with a back seat set higher than the cab. The guide holds a spotlight shining the fields. It is a pretty easy and fun way to attack varmints.

On the first night of the rabbit hunt, it was quite cool and breezy, so Joseph and I bundled up grabbed the rifles. I brought the STW and he brought his 308. Joseph got the first shot with his 308 and dispatched the unlucky rabbit with authority. Well, the next shot was mine. I had loaded the STW with Sierra 120-grain Varminter bullets going around 3700 fps. With the rifles initial crack, I found out why the bullets were called Varminters. The rabbit looked as if a grenade had detonated in his chest. It was an amazing kill. We went on the alternate shot schedule all night and preceded to wipe out 20 of those grass munchers. Never had we had so much fun as when that STW let out it�s loud bark.

The next day my brother and I were sitting around the lodge discussing the plan for that nights jack hunt. He had mad up his mind to bring the 338 Lapua instead of the 308 to see what it would do to a jack. Well, the guide rolled up in our truck, but there were noticeably more people in the truck when he arrived. I asked the guide what the heck was going on, he replied that he told the story of the STW to the other guides and they had to come along to actually see the devastation in real life. What a night this would be. A weather front was rolling in; so all the critters were out feeding, getting ready to bed down when the storms came. As luck would have it, it was my turn to shoot first that night. We rolled up on an old abandoned barn when the guide spotted a big jack at approximately 40 yards. He stopped the truck and verified it was ok to shoot toward the barn. I rested the rifle on the roll bar and slowly squeezed the trigger. At the crack of the gun I knew the results had been what everyone had expected, because all I heard after that was giant laughter coming from the cab of the truck. The rabbit had been obliterated and left a huge blood splatter on that poor barn.

The next shot of the night was kind of different, but has a great story. My brother had readied his Lapua (we only loaded one round and only when it was our turn to shoot). The guide(s) had noticed a pair of eyes glowing in an old woodpile; only the animal didn�t look quite like a jack. Reason being, it was a large male raccoon. My brother took careful aim with that big Lapua and let the round fly. His loading was a 180 grain Nosler ballistic tip traveling at 3450 fps. We saw the raccoon flip about 4 feet in the air, but Joseph didn�t due to the recoil. He went off to retrieve his raccoon as the guide left the light on so he could see where it was. Well the raccoon�s eyes were still glowing in the light, which led Joseph to believe the animal may still be alive, so he picked up a stick and started poking the dead raccoon with stick �just to make sure.� Well, he has never lived that one down. Shoot a raccoon with a 338 and have to poke just to make sure it died, this was too much for a sibling who also has a twisted sense of humor. After he brought it back to the truck, we noticed it had been completely eviscerated. Which led to Joseph getting an even harder time, now we have an eviscerated raccoon shot by a 338 Lapua, which he had to poke with a stick to make sure it was dead. Sorry Joseph just had to tell the story again. This was an amazing night of jack hunting until the storm rolled in.

The last night of the hunt went well but was pretty uneventful except for the porcupine. At about 200 yards our guide had spotted a rather large porcupine in a wooded thicket. The reason our rancher hated porcupines was the damage these rascals do to their trees, by stripping the bark from them. So it was imperative for us to take out this little sucker or suffer the wrath of the ranch owner (just kidding, she is one of the nicest people you will ever meet). I was up for the shot and missed this slow moving target. I felt kind of bad until the porcupine reversed direction and my brother had the same shot only in the opposite direction and missed. The porcupine reversed direction again (sort of like a live shooting gallery) I shot and flattened it. As we examined the porcupine we found no massive destruction. The biggest thing we found was this little critter stunk worse than a Diane Feinstein law.

It�s time now for a little examination of the rifles. The first is the 7 STW, the rifle is a rebarrelled Winchester Model 70 Laredo with a Blackstar #12 HV barrel, wearing a Burris 8-32X scope. The total weight on this rig is about 17 pounds. Meant for long range target shooting but works well on varmints too. The 330 Dakota is a factory Dakota model 76. My brother�s rifles were a Sako TRG-S 338 Lapua with a KDF style muzzle break wearing a Burris 6-24X scope (we bought a pair of these rifles and got consecutively serial numbers, hmm�nothing says brotherly love like consecutively serial numbered 338 Lapua�s). The last rifle used on the hunt was Joseph�s 308 which is a Remington Varmint Synthetic. This rifle is quite nice since he had the barrel cut down to 20 inches and fluted. This combo makes for a very nice handling rifle. Too bad it�s left-handed or we would have to try some family procurement on that one.

So can you use a magnum to varmint hunt with? Of course! Though it is more expensive and takes a toll on your shoulder after a while (though if set-up for varminting or long range shooting the recoil can be cut considerably). If you have a magnum deer rifle, take it out sometime and shoot some �chucks or jacks for some practice. I think you�ll become addicted.

Hope you enjoyed the article...Jim

The gun on the bench is a 300 Ultra with a 30" Hart barrel.Stock is a Master 1000 Benchrest stock.I was shooting 220gr MatchKing's that day at 3200fps.That's my do everything gun...

Here is a better pic....

I had just got my M99 in .358 Winchester and it was loaded with 200 gr Silvertips. My dad, his friend who was a smallbore shooter and not a hunter and his son who was my age were walking near an abandoned farm in Southern Vermont. We spotted a large porkupine in an apple tree right over the dirt road we were walking on.

As I aimed at the porkupine that was about 20 feet away in the tree my dad's friend said "it will go right thru him".

At the shot the porkupine flew into the air and landed at our feet on it's back. All of it's organs and intestines were gone and you could see the entire inside of it's body, rib cage and all. I said "yep, it went right thru it"

Boyd,
That is a nice set-up that you got there. How does it shoot?(I know how it shoots, I mean how accurate is that rig?)

Daryl

This is the best 5shot 100 yard group I could get out of it.Shoot's sub moa 10 shot group's at 1000 yard's

[ 01-12-2003, 05:56: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

I can attest to it! Boyd's rig shoot's. He let me us it to take a ground hog out at 525 yds and I got my deer with it at 750 yrd's. Thanks neighbor!

A friend of mine is using a 300 WSM and 125 gr. Nosler B.T.'s at 3500 fps on coyotes, I have seen it work and it is devastating to say the least.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.....RiverRat

300WSM in a model 70 Coyote.Still trying to find that consistent one hole group.But it still takes the game. Dont make me rebarrel you.

I'd like to get into this as well, but my 300 WinMag really likes heavier bullets. I've tried the 130gr Hornady SoftPoint at 3000fps and it's a little wild.

What about loading the 135gr Sierra ProHunter (meant for .30 handguns) to about 3000fps? Since that's meant to perform on deer at no more than 2500fps it should really detonate on varmints, right? I have a handload with this bullet at 2600fps, shoots MOA.

What about using the 168 Sierra Match bullet? I have that shooting 1/2MOA at 2900fps.

If it's all about the splatter then would these 2 Sierras be suitable? Can't wait to see some respones.

Jim, I haven't done a project like this yet, but am preparing to do so myself soon. Last year I took a buddy of mine out calling coyotes. We were overlooking a huge basin out here in Southern CO, and it was late in the A.M., warm and getting warmer. We hadn't had any luck calling as it was late in the season, and unseasonably warm. I should have looked over the basin before we started calling, but didn't. After we began the calling sequence, I scanned the basin real quick with my binocs. Sure enuf spotted 2 dogs laying in the short prairie grass just watching us. The ranges were between 5+600 yds., and they both got up and left before I could communicate to my partner what was going on. He had my Leica 1200 laser and my 6mm A.I. I crawled over to him and explained what just happened. I glassed the rest of the basin real good, and spotted another dog about 3/4 mile away. Shortly he layed down presenting us with an opportunity for a stalk. It was very exciting for both of us, and I got my buddy hooked on stalking, and sniping dogs at long-range. Several months later he purchased a Nesika Bay action that he is going to build a long-ranger with. I suggested the .270 WSM since Nosler now has 4 .277" Ball. Tips., and this should give him some flexibilty regarding bullet selection for a rig that has 1000 +or- yd. potential. I would bet that your 338 will go to 1000 on good days, maybe even farther, with the right associated equipment, i.e Leica 1200 rangefinder, scope with ranging reticle/target turret sytem to give precise holdover reference, and experience shooting at long range (I just sent in an article to John Anderson @ Varmint Hunter entitled, "Portable Range Design for Long-Range Testing" detailing a very simple target design that I developed which can be set up anywhere in the field. Stay tuned for that one. A couple years ago I had one published in the issue with the Twin Towers on the cover entitled "Spotting and Stalking Coyotes", although at the time I was using custom XP pistols on them.
My 6AI will go to 800 with 1/2-3/4 MOA accuracy. With all the latest innovations these days, there is only one real question left unanswered to see if this game can be played effectively, and that is bullet performance at long-range on coyotes??? Hope I didn't get off track too much here.
P.S. Is that rig that Boyd's using sweet or what??!!I can't believe he's wasting it on 1000 yd. targets though when there are coyotes to pop.

sscoyote.That gun was built to shoot.I hunt groundhog's with it on off week's from 1000 yard shooting.Have also taken deer with it....As for coyote's,I am going on a hunt in Feb overlooking a big open light line.Where I saw a ton of yote track's in deer season.Here is a pic of me and a ghog shot at 450 yard's with "KILLER"

Boyd, there are only 2 words I can think of right now-- sweet, and envy. Please let us know about the coyotes, I'm dying to find out about bullet performance beyond 500 or so on coyotes.

Took my TC Encore 300WSM out fox calling last eve. Still had some 140grain Barnes XBT handloads left over from Deer season. Anybody that still thinks barnes leave small holes in light skinned game I'll email you a picture that indicates otherwise. I was hoping it wouldnt open up in order to be able to tan the hide...so much for that.

why take the recoil. I bought a 6.53 scramjet that is a 25 cal. lazzeroni i use a 87 serria pushing 4100 fps. yes you have energy at 700 to make the kill.

Sramjet,

Big recoil is no fun, but why would you spend $5000 on a rifle that will need a new barrel so quickly? And does 4100fps equal a big muzzle blast?

As with most peole interested in varminting with a medium-bore, I realize I won't be shooting 100s of rounds in a day. I think most of us just want to take opportunity shots at varmint-size critters. I'll soon be cooking up some 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips at about 3200fps. I'm sure that's good for 2 shots every 5-10 minutes. Recoil will be light compared to my hot 220gr loads.

I've taken numerous prairie dogs, jackrabbits, badgers, etc. with my M70 in .375 H&H. I've taken only a half dozen or so coyotes with it but it seems quite effective upon the desert dogs!

While the 375 calibre is considered by many a big bore, I still rank it as a medium... and a damned good one at that

sscoyote- I took your post to say that Noz makes 4 B Tips now for the 270. I am not aware of thre 4th what is it?

I know of the 130/140/150.

Many thanks

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Lazzeroni factory loaded cartridges are loaded to the absolute highest pressure he can safely use and still have a case left after firing. That said, the Lazzeroni is getting 4000 FPS with the 6.53 loaded with an 85 grain bullet from a 27" barrel, and the 120 at 3550 FPS. You can get that velocity with the 257 STW with a 26" barrel. And the cases are one hell of a lot cheaper to buy. The 25-06 can get 3700 FPS with an 85, excessive pressure not needed. As you can see I'm no fan of the overpriced Lazzeroni line of rifles or cartridges. BTW I have a 25-06 and a 257STW and did have a 6.53.

Dan
Dan

I shot two coyotes in the last week with my 375 H&H Mag. I usually use a .220 Swift, but I'm getting some practice for an upcoming big game hunt. Both were 1-shot kills, of course.

I am using a 7 rem mag - it shoots better than me most of the time. it is super i use a mil-dot scope and range finder- i made a little cart for drop and powersetting. Just laz em and shoot em. I shoot in wind a lot and the 22-250 user's are at a big disadvantege.

Mark-- According to Gerald Perry's Exbal Ballistics Program there is a 4th--120gr. Of course I haven't gotten this years Nosler brochure so this may not be fact-- let me know if it isn't please.

Mark, I think you're right about there being only 3 .277" Noslers. There must be a mistake on the Ballistics Program, or maybe they discontinued the 120???

Shooting coyotes at long range with big guns is a blast. I had two remington 40xs built from the remington custom shop in 1993.They never shot under an inch. After taking them to a local gun smith( had them accurized) and a KDF break put on each one.,they shot like a dreem.My load is 71grs IMR 4350,165gr Nosler B.T, This load has taken more deer than you would belive past 500yards. This gun and load combo will shoot into a consistant six inch groop at 600yrds. The only thing you have to watch is your range estamation, a mistake of as little as + or - 50yrds past 600yrds is a miss. But when you get it right you can reach out into the next zip code and really touch someone. I have shot at a couple of coyotes that were so far out that by the time the bullet got to them they died of old age!

Since my last post here I've determined that my 300WinMag likes the following:

Nosler 125 Ballistic Tip over 73gr AA3100, WLRM Primer. Should be good for about 3100fps.

this shot less than 1/2" on a warm day with a light breeze. It cooked the barrel in a hurry, so it's not going to keep up with the 223 Varminters, but it sure makes a lot of noise. Can't wait to see the terminal effects.

Hi Boyd: I try to keep track of record groups in the shooting sport. Your post states your rifle can produce 10 shot sub MOA groups at 1000 yards. My research does not show that the 10 shot 1000 yard listed record group is sub MOA. The 1000 yard record five shot group is 1.5"
I am certain your rifle is one fine shooting long rang rig. I would think if it did produce the sub MOA 1000 yard groups you state your name would be listed in the record books or should be. In any case very interesting reading when it comes to group size at long range.

Reloader 66,

I am not sure what those records are but you list 1.5"? Have you mixed up MOA and inches?

In general I would not take on a target shooter who put's it on paper in front of witnesses.

Yep, I'm thinking someone is in such a hurry to discredit someone else they got their numbers a *wee* bit mixed up.

In case you haven't figured out what we're talking about, Reloader66, sub-MOA at 1k yards is under 10.47". I don't claim to keep up on it like you, but last I checked, the Light Gun record was somewhere around 3.something and the Heavy Gun record is something a little over 5 inches. Not entirely sure of the difference, but I think the Heavy Gun class has to fire more shots for record, hence the slightly larger groups. But hey, someone could have gotten lucky/good and slipped in a group under 1.5" recently, more power to them.

Monte

Oh Sure I always carry my gp-100 with me Sean

A friend of mine used a Browning A-Bolt in 7mm rem mag for jackrabbits and prarie dogs. After about 1500 rounds, the inside of the barrel looked like an egg that had been fried at a high temperature.

The heavy gun world record is 3.151 inch's for ten shot's.The 16.5 pound 10 shot world record is 4.534 inch's for ten shot's.We shoot 10 shot's for record in both classes at Williamsport............Milanuk,thank you for clearing thing's up a bit....

Well, Boyd, it looks like we might be wrong here.

I'm sitting here looking at an ad in my new April 2003 Precision Shooting from Clinch River Outfitters showing a picture of a 'New IBS 1000 yard Light Gun World Record of 1.561" using Clinch River 6.5mm 147gr VLD bullets'. It's a 5 shot group, vs the 10 shots you mentioned. Are the numbers you listed NBRSA or something? The ad doesn't state when or where, but it credits the group to Rich DeSimone.

Monte

We are our own deal.We were the first.When someone from the IBS shoot's a 10 shot group under 4.5" in the Light gun class they will have the 1000 Yard Light gun world record.Like I said we shoot ten shot's for record in both classes.That's the way it should be.JMHO...

I would like to say hat's off to Rich for setting the IBS record.Good shooting...