A post below got me thinking of the old standbys like the two 219 offerings back in the days of yor....

Anyone still using either of these two grand old cartridges?? especially in a bolt action?

I have always found the 30/30 case to be an efficient case when used with lighter bullets...

IN today's trendy world where the 204 Ruger is the HoT ticket, I just can't warm up to it... or the 17 HMR...

But Nostalgia can get the better of me and make me think about old technology which is not really that "old" but is more along the lines of practical....

Back when 30/30 brass was more plentiful than surplus 223 brass is today, those kind of cartridges made sense...

While making a real heavy barreled Mauser with a 31 inch bull barrel tube, I was thinking also about making a twist barrel in 220 Swift also....but this has me thinking about going nostalgic and considering one of the two cartridges above instead...

A sleeper 56 Chevy would turn me on a lot more than a 2006 Corvette... so I guess that would fit my nature.. a 219 over a 204....

I just like to be different.. like a 19/223 Calhoon over a 204 Ruger....handloading has done that to me... given me the freedom to have things different than the other guys who are tied to whatever Bi Mart and Walmart are carrying for ammo.. or ordering expensive ammo via mail order, to have something trendy for this season...

Doing this Bull barrel project on the Mauser has actually been a lot of fun... this 31 inch straight tube with no taper, will allow me to rebore this thing half a dozen times I bet...

Now I am looking at a Savage action for a candidate for this type of fun also....Richards Microfit stocks has some great options... for a nice rifle that is eye catching and weights about 20 to 25 pounds so you will really impress people down at the range....

and if you shoot alot they sure are practical... especially if designed or destined to be bench rifles in the varmint fields or at the range...

but someone can tell Varmint Guy, so he won't think I am a total fruitloop.. while not warming up to the 204, I have dwelled on the 20/22.250 or the 20 BR.....

a 6mm/284 also makes a lot of sense as a longranger 'prairie dog sniper' rifle.....
with a 31 to 33 inch straight tube stainless bull barrel on it...but I still have to compare ballistics to the plain old 6mm Rem... in a long action...

well since varmint season is over, one has to start thinking about winter projects to have new spring armaments ready to go next spring...

cheers
seafire

quote:

well since varmint season is over, one has to start thinking about winter projects to have new spring armaments ready to go next spring...

My varmint season runs the last 365 days of the year. Crow season is just beginning.

Gotta get that .221 dialed in.....

Seafire,

I shoot a High Wall in 219 RCBS which is an improved 219 Zipper with Huntingtons 28 degree shoulder. I used to be able to form factory 30-30 brass right down with the 219 FL die but the last lot of WW brass is very soft and it folds up on me.

So I am fire forming 219 Zipper brass. One could use 225 Win brass in some guns but my neck is just a little too tight.

In a bolt action there might be some feeding problems but M54's were chambered in 30-30 and maybe 219 Z. also.

I see no benefit in the 204 etc except ammusement for those who like it.

On the other hand I would not have got into this very difficult to deal with 219 RCBS unless I really wanted that High Wall 45 years ago.

As to the 56 cars I had them, drove them and don't want one. In fact I drove a 56 Corvette from 1960 thru 1962 as my only car. It had the 'performance' rear axle and the two four barrel carburators! It was a convertable and also had a hard top. It was white with a gold cove and red interior. The brakes on the car were dangerous. I drove right thru an intersection with two feet on the brake pedal only once. They had the 265 Cu V8 then. The neighbor up the street had a XK 120 and rumor had it that his car was faster. Maybe so but his never ran. I drove that car every day in all kinds of weather and it was kind of tricky in the snow but .... ah youth.

Of course I was going pretty fast before that stop sign came into view!!

Savage,


enjoyed the story on the 56 Vette...

a great uncle of mine had a 53 Corvette, that was a car he had stored, he bought it new and would let us sit in it, and that was about all the service it saw... He collected ' unique" cars... He also had one of the original Tuckers that he bought new and then kept it in his little Museum on his property...

He was from Tennessee but had gone out to Oklahoma and had struck oil on a lot of the property he had purchased for farm land when it was dirt cheap right after the turn of the last century....

That XK 120 must have been a cool thing also... I really got into Jags when I lived in England as a kid for 3 yrs, when my dad was stationed over there in the USAF... a neighbor was the sports editor for a newspaper in London and he use to take us to the race tracks in England and had passes to get us down in the pits...

I fell in love with the D type racing Jags, with that big assed 6 cylinder and the side draft carbs on it...Ferraris didn't do much for me after seeing those Jags....I remember the steering wheel was about the size of a garbage can lid...I loved those babies!

Mr. "Fruitloop" (Seafire/B17G): I am happy to see that Crowrifle was also "miffed" at your "contention" that Varmint season is OVER!
VARMINT SEASON IS NEVER OVER!
I Hunt Varmints YEAR ROUND - and no I do not look forward to using any of the obsolete and "difficult" cartridges you are now promoting for my year round pursuits!
I do now though need to pin you down a bit here Seafire/B17G!
Here in the midst of your loss of reality type "breakdown".
Is it your contention (contrary position!) that the wonderful 204 Ruger cartridge is just a "trend"?
Is it also your contention that the 204 Ruger does not have a laser like flat trajectory?
Do you declare that the 204 Ruger is not an exceptionally (universally!) accurate cartridge?
Is it in your mind that the 204 Ruger is not exceptionally lethal on Varmints?
Is it your contrary view that the 204 Ruger flies through the wind with so much deflection that the 219 Whoop-te-doo's enjoy "straighter" flight in the wind than your less "trendy" choices (219 Zipper etc)?
Or do you decry the 204 Ruger for being an economical and an extremely easy to load for round, an extremely efficient cartridge, one that is slow to heat a barrel, has NO recoil and is a cartridge that requires NO special sizing dies, inside neck reaming and significant trimming like your 219's do?
I see nothing wrong with you wanting to go on a nostalgia binge tangent! If it makes you happy - so be that!
But denouncing the 204 Ruger as being just a "trend" is myopic, irrational and incorrect!
That is like calling the 270 Winchester a "flash in the pan"!
Dittoes for your weird stance regarding the 17 HMR!
The 17 HMR is simply the most lethal, flat shooting, accurate, wind resistant and fun to use rimfire I have ever seen!
It is a phenomenal Varminting rimfire cartridge!
And I have seen a lot of rimfires since owning my first one more than 50 years ago!
I await your responses to my inquiries with eagerness there Seafire/B17G!
Just on a side note there Seafire/B17G - I looked into my Sierra manual regarding the 219 Donaldson Wasp and its top speed loading for a 50 grain bullet shows that to attain that, a charge of 32.5 grains of powder was needed!
My 204's exceed the speed attained by the 219 by over 600 FPS with 6.5 grains less powder - no neck reaming, no excessive case trimming, no special form die sets, less time in the loading room etc etc etc.
Again I see nothing wrong with you having a nostalgia fit in the middle of your breakdown but to "tie" the 219's to your dislike of the 204's is, at BEST, irrational!
As to your 6mm/284 being used on Prairie Dogs at long range. Yep that can be done - but not for very long!
The 6mm/284 is a barrel eater of virtually no equal!
The 204 I am quite certain can quadruple the barrel life of a 6mm/284! Let alone besting it in so many other ways for the all around Varminting most folks are interested in!
Recoil?
Brass life?
Economy?
Accuracy?
Barrel heat?
Reconsider your 6mm/284 choice - please. I hate to see you throw money away when better choices are at hand - 6.5/284 being just one.
Your self professed "need" to be different has me thinking you are irrational (contrary!) just for irrationals sake.
Thats your perogative but remember this - contrariness (stubborness or perverseness - dictionary definition) accomplishes nothing positive!
Long live the wonderful new Varminting cartridges the 204 Ruger and the 17 Hornady Rimfire magnum!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Seafire/B17G: You being from Oregon AND a 56 Chevy fan I must relay the following story to you.
Each summer when I was in high school I would go stay with my cousins to work in the fields around Madras, Oregon.
During the summer of 1964 my cousin bought a beautiful 1956 Chevrolet 2 door. It was the 6 cylinder model and my cousin wanted a big V-8 engine in it!
Those wonderful 6 cylinder engines were worth virtually nothing back then - even though they were an exceptionally good engine!
Well "we" decided to simply "blow" the 6 cylinder engine up by driving it at maximum RPM's til it exploded!
4 of us got together and jumped in the Chevy and we were followed by another mental midget in a tow pickup! Off we went in first gear from Madras, Oregon on the highway to Bend, Oregon!
At 50 miles per hour in first gear with that poor engine just SCREAMING!
We were laughing at the hellacious noise (whine!) coming from that engine so hard I was amazed my cousin did not drive into the ditch! I became so concerned about the engine actually "blowing up" I opted to climb over the seat from the front to the rear to take cover there!
Imagine our wonderment when we arrived in Bend, Oregon with that Chevy 6 engine still squalling but still running perfectly!
We were sure though that on the return trip the engine would certainly let go (blow up!).
It didn't!
We arrived back in Madras with the engine howling and pushing just the faintest amount of smoke!
My cousin parked the black beauty and we waited for the engine to cool down and we just pulled out the 6 cylinder engine and we set it aside!
Such were the poor decisions made by teenagers back then!
Long live 56 Chevies!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Seafire,

I used to go to the races back in the 50's and 60's. I did take the drivers school at Lime Rock Park too. I do recall a Jaguar XKSS which was as hot a looking car ever back then. Hate to say it but the Ferrari's finished first and the Corvettes were not far behind.

The Ford Cobra was not fair. When Shelby/Ford came out with it nothing could run with it.

Jag. XKSS

I have a Donaldson on a Remington RB smokless action.

It is a shooter, but since I have nothing in this area to use it on, I just get it out and plinks some once in a while.

A freind (gunsmith) bought it and several other INTERESTING guns from the widow of a Crusty ol Fart
turkey shoot competitor.

ALL of those guns would shoot!!

IF I were still in the west, it would most likely go with me in Summer to the PD towns and winter would find us looking for coyote pelts "on the hoof".

Course there was a coyote in the field in front of the house as I came home from the range this evening.

One day I will work on this gun with the Seafire BD load trick.

Sav 99,Like you, I spent lots of enjoyable days at Road Races in the 1950's.

That Jag XKSS is about as beautiful a car that was ever made. The 120's and 140's were neat too, in British Racing Green. My current car is in British Racing Green.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Seafire,

I used to go to the races back in the 50's and 60's. I did take the drivers school at Lime Rock Park too. I do recall a Jaguar XKSS which was as hot a looking car ever back then. Hate to say it but the Ferrari's finished first and the Corvettes were not far behind.

The Ford Cobra was not fair. When Shelby/Ford came out with it nothing could run with it.

Jag. XKSS

Just don't let anyone apply revisionist history to the "Cobra legend" and mention the 427Cobra's which weren't as sucessful as race cars as the earlier 289 cobra's were...

AD

The first AC Cobra that I saw was at the Thompson, CT track and it was a 260 cu V8.

The car soon lapped the field in class A just like that.

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Sav 99,Like you, I spent lots of enjoyable days at Road Races in the 1950's.

That Jag XKSS is about as beautiful a car that was ever made. The 120's and 140's were neat too, in British Racing Green. My current car is in British Racing Green.

Don

I have the same impression that you do. Of course its the impact of what you have seen before and then you see a XKSS. The pictures that I found do not do the car justice. Perhaps it's my memory thats so vivid.

As an aside I just remembered how I learned a new word! Back when the XKE came out we were in high school and got together to go up to Hartford, CT where a dealer (Palloti & Poole) had one on display. So there we are, without a dollar to our names, drooling over the car and the salesman is standing guard.

I look inside the convertable and say out loud "$5000 and no radio!" The salesman comes back with "in a XKE a radio is superfluous."

I remember those old Bristol AC Cobras over on the race tracks in Britain in the mid 60s....

If I remember correctly, AC Bristol fires designed them in about 1959... pretty sharp vehicle.. both then and now....

OH! for the days of the 219's, hornets, high walls, and the fancy new triple deuces. I am returning to my youth, trying to accumulate as many of the transition M70's as I can, to give all the survivors something to fight over. I may even find me a '57 G Hawk. We will have to wait and see if the .204 stays around as long as the Hornet has. Meanwhile, I need me another M70 Hornet. The one I have has a K'd chamber.

By the way, seafire that P47 would be comforting to see looking out of a B17G turret.

By the way, I can load my hornet hotter and cheaper with much better accuracy than I can buy ammo for my HMR 17. I am not impressed with it.

Yeah Joe,

Seafire also likes B17s, and P 47s a lot....

but I am an aircraft junkie...especially WW 2 and the post period...thru the 1960s....

I like shooting and reloading, but I am definitely and aircraft junkie...

VarmintGuy,

it's not very nice to start a flame contest here. Personally, I consider the two cartridges you are fantasizing over to be "Silly" boutique kiddie toys. The 17? Any cartridge that I can't reload is irrelevant to live varmint shooting. The 204 needs to be around about ten years before it gets any respect...staying power counts more than cosmetics. As far as speed, the 17 MachIV outruns it and is more barrel friendly. Ruger is all caught up in trying to emulate the old school gunmakers like Remington and Winchester and have its own line of cartridges. Mostly they do not seem to have the brains or class to bring something of their own out, just copying others.

I have a couple classics myself...an early postwar mauser with DST's in 219 Donaldson Wasp, and a Borchardt in 25-35Imp by Sukalle: and some newbies; a Savage 112 BVSS in 22-378Wby-AI shoulder, and an XP-rifle in 22-284. Taste in cartridge runs much like a mans taste in cars and women...there are no right or wrong, or superior answers.

It takes an adult to allow other people to choose and enjoy choices that are not your personal preferences.
Playing "...my dog is bigger than your dog..." is for children, IMHO

shoot what you want and let us do the same.

Rich

Seafire

I've played with the Idea of building a 219 Donaldson Wasp off and on for some time. Until the .222 came along it was one of the most accurate things around. With todays technology I'm sure that it would be a splendid little rifle. Lots and lots of 30 30 cases every where you look. This little rifle won lots of BR matches in its day.

As they say long live the 219 Donaldson Wasp!