I have a 223 in a 22" barrel with a 1-12" twist. The intended usage is for groundhogs and predators (with hopefully more minimal exits though not of utmost importance). I would appreciate some imput based on chrono readings and field experiences, as I have have plenty of manual information available. Here are my questions:

1.Based upon velocity and trajectory would you choose a 40 or 50 grain bullet (40 would have a plastic tip-v-max, blitzking, ballistic tip)?

2. What chrono velocities are attainable with each weight and with what powder and charge for an accurate/fast load?

3. Is it possible to attain the 3800 fps Hornady claims for its 40 grain v-max factory load with handloads?

4. Which bullet would you choose based upon terminal performance to the limits of the 223 effective range.

You won't know how your loads are performing without a chronograph. They're the best investment I ever made in reloading equipment.

Heavier bullets sustain their velocities longer, over greater ranges. Heavier bullets also buck the wind much better. At ranges beyond 300 yds, the heavier bullets are probably a better choice, although it's important to chrono the loads.

I have a Rem 700 with a 22" bbl. rechambered to Ackley Improved. Loaders are claiming 40 gr. bullets in this chambering reaching more than 4000 fps. I have yet to move comfortably past 3800 fps without getting primer flattening and cratering. I've had the gun precisely headspaced--part of rechambering. The flattening may be due to the bolt face, but I expect that a lot of the velocity claims are "hot air" and wishful thinking. I'm running an Oehler with triple sky screens, providing two readings of each round velocity. Any variation between the two velocity readings is posted as an "error" . . . The system is extremely accurate.

It'd be nice to be able to simply list an optimal load for a specific application. But that's not the way ballistics works. That's why we have these sorts of forums.

I plan to use a chrono. I am asking what results were obtained by others before I start this process as it may point me in the right direction and eliminate some leg work.
Also I'm hoping for some field reports.

Well, I shoot a stock Remington 700BDL with a 24 inch barrel that has a 1 in 12 twist chambered for the .223 Remington.

In regard to whether to shoot 40 or 50 grain bullets I have to confess that I still cannot decide. I have sent a LOT of ground squirrels and prairie dogs on to varmint heaven using the 40 grain V-Max. This is an outstanding bullet for varmints. But I have to admit that I still keep some 50's loaded up just because. I especially like the 50 grain bullets if I am doing much predator shooting. May be all in my head, but seems like the 50's put a coyote down with more authority. I am fortunate in that my gun shoots them to darn near the same impact.

In regard to the chronograph, I can get 3650 fps out of the 40 grain bullets easily with H 335 or N 133 powders. With the 50 grain versions I can easily reach 3400 fps with H 335, 748, XMR 2015, or the new Benchmark powder.

In so far as reaching 3800 fps with the 40 grain bullets, some can and some cannot. Using the data in the Nosler manual a friend gets over 3800 fps from a 24 inch Remington when using N 133 powder. The same loads in my rifle will just barely top 3700 fps.

So, I guess you may just have to shoot some of each and maybe your gun will have a distinct preference for one weight or another. In fact, my rifle shoots the 40 grain V-Max better than any of the other brands, but when I switch to 50 grain bullets it shoots best with the Sierra Blitzking. This is not all bad, when they are loaded up I can readily tell which is which by the color of the plastic tips.

Good Luck

Thunderstick,
With the 12" twist best accuracy is usually with 55 grain bullets. I have a Winchester 70 with a 26" barrel that does shoot the 50 and 40 grainers very good. How much of that can be blamed on the long barrel I don't know. Despite what the Nosler manual states I can only get 3842 fps with their 40gr. BT with as much W748 that I can stuff in the case(30.0grs.) Don't believe their AA 2015 data. It's a dream.

I think Hornadys position on velocity for the 40 gr bullets is valid. Different cartridge, but I get 3400 fps with ease in a .22 K-Hornet with both the VMAX and Nosler BT's(40 gr). As to range, the issue is BC and little else. Check the tables in the back of Nosler's or Hornady's book. The velocity gain with the lighter bullet generally gives it an edge in trajectory as I recall, At least at the practical range of the cartridge.

[ 11-29-2002, 19:48: Message edited by: DigitalDan ]

Has anyone tried H322? I have had excellent results with it in the 222 and 50 gr. bullets. Most manuals do not show this as that promising for the 223, but I would have thought the faster burn rate would be better for the light 40 gr. bullet.

Thunderstick,

If you want to extend the range of the .223, go with the 55 grain bullets. I've noted that even when launched from a 22-250 at well over 4100 fps, the 40 grain pills lose too much steam to be effective on groundhogs beyond 250 yards. If you've shot many groundhogs, you know that for their size they're one of the toughest things on the planet. Many which take hits by insufficient calibers crawl back into their holes and die slowly.

Here is a load recipe that I would like you to try: 55 grain Nosler BT, and 26.6 grains of W748. That should shoot well in practically any .223 without mechanical imperfections. I would use an OAL of 2.350", and a Remington or Federal primer if available.

Here is a link to my load development process, which I used to develop the above mentioned recipe. You'll also find other shooters comments on this recipe, as well as one in particular who used my load development method in his own .223 and came to the same conclusion, which was that 26.6 grains of W748 and the 55 grain bullet in the .223 Remington is an OCW (optimal charge weight) load.

http://216.219.200.59/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000256

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do,

Dan Newberry
green 788

By the way, if you choose to use the 40 grain bullets, 28 grains of W748, or 27.5 grains of Varget (compressed) works very well also.

I concur with Green 788. My Ruger #1V in .223 loves the V-Max 40 Gr. in front of 28 Gr. of 748. Speer 40 Gr.Spire or Sierra 40 Gr. HP work almost as well.
Pete

[ 12-17-2002, 21:45: Message edited by: PJ ]

I never imagined that the 40 grain bullet would not carry enough energy to be effective on groundhogs at distances beyond 250 yards, since some people use the 40 grain bullet for shooting coyotes. I suppose the 17 Rem. would also be minimally effective.

I have shot quite few hogs with a 222 and various 50-55 grain bullets, before the 40 grain plastic versions were on the market. With the 50 grain b-tips I have made quite a few kills between 300 and 400 yards pushing the bullet at 3400 fps.
I have concluded from field experience that for truly effective longer range shooting of hogs (beyond 400 yds.) you need more than a standard 22 centerfire, so the bigger 22s do not offer that much more to me than a 223. When I am serious about the longer ranges I use the 25-06 and a 100 gr. Sierra BT moving along at 3460 fps.

I tried some 50 gr. Ballistic tips yesterday with 25 gr of H322 and shot a 3/8" group while doing some preliminary testing with different seating depths, so this rifle is showing a lot of potential (what else would you expect from a Tikka).

It sounds as if the consensus of this group is to stick with either a 50 or 55 gr. bullet and use H335, BLC2, or W748.

Anyone else have opinions??????

Hey Thunderstick, Interesting questions, but from my experience you will have to try a few different bullets and powders in your rifle to see what it shoots the best. Basically the entire thought process of there being a MUC Load (Magical, mystical, mysterious Universal Charge) that works in most all rifles of a specific caliber is Full of Beans!

1.Based upon velocity and trajectory would you choose a 40 or 50 grain bullet (40 would have a plastic tip-v-max, blitzking, ballistic tip)?

In my 223Rem, I normally carry the 50gr Rem PLHP. Very good accuracy, great terminal performance and very inexpensive.

I've had excellent accuracy with H4895 and H322 but, the Hodgdon Benchmark is "more accurate" in mine. Probably get a bit faster speed with either WW-748 or BL-C2, but the accuracy is off a point or two.

4. Which bullet would you choose based upon terminal performance to the limits of the 223 effective range.

I'd use the 50gr B-Tip because it is the Accuracy Champ in my rifle. (All my shots are inside 300yds or so with this rifle, so the 50gr Rem PLHP still works fine there for me though.)

I had great luck last season on groundhogs with 50gr V-max moly bullets in a 223 AR (24" Lothar Walther hvy SS barrel). On shots past 250, if I missed it was always high. It was my fault for not knowing the rifle, but I was impressed as hell at how flat it did shoot. Longest shot was at a lasered 460Yds, and I aimed an estimated 20" high. Bullet impact was halfway between aiming point and the chuck. Brought the crosshairs down (a bit too much) and dusted his belly and he was off to the races.

Perfomance on the game at all ranges was impressive also. Most often there wasn't an exit on the body hits, and the head shots...well, they really did the job.

I shoot a 222 and haven't seen a groundhog but for what it's worth I will say that I can achieve 3,600fps with the 40gr vmax which is what Hornady claim for their 222 40gr load. It is the most accurate bullet in my rifle and is seriously explosive.

I searched a long time for an entry wound on the first fox I shot (and that was at nearer 3,400fps MV) at 175yds. In the end I skinned it and realised that the exit wound I had been looking at was in fact the entry wound. There were jacket fragments just under the entry skin. I think it is the ultimate 222 fox bullet in the UK.

My rifle shoots flatter with it than JBM ballistics thinks it should - I have a suspicion that the BC is better than the advertised .2.

Just thought in case any of you fellows might be interested, I decided to do some load development with H322 (because I had some) and the 50 grain Ballistic tip. After I found the right seating depth (.010k from the lands)I worked loads up to 26 grains (Speer's max) and then tried different primers. The Rem. 7 1/2m primer, 26 gr. H322, and the 50 grain ballistic tip yielded a 1/4" 3 shot group (a little less actually-no paper between any holes). Now I will have to chrono this load.

You don't hear much of H322 being used in the 223 though it is often used in the 222. I decided that with the cases so similar it was worth a try. Perhaps some of you fellow hunters may find it worthwhile also. Of course I am shooting a Tikka, so I cannot say what your results may be in a mass-produced, American lawyer's rifle.

Well i'll offer up my pet .223 load. I'm using 40 gr vmax bullets pushed by 23.3 gr's of IMR4198 this is in federal brass and using federal GM205M primers. This load averages 3650 in my 26" REM 700 PSS. The top load for velocity that I have found was using 40 gr Barnes "VLC" burners using a max load (barnes #3 manual) I did reach 3900 with no pressure signs. Rich

We have had amazing luck with 50 grain Speer TNT's on top of 27.0 grains of IMR-4064. This said I'm real high on the Hornady V-Max but I still have found NOTHING better, for my money, than this particular load in a 223. Incidentally it functions in Colt AR, Armalite, H&K #630 and all bolt guns and is accurate in everything I've tried it in and exceptionally in most. Good Hunting. "Z"

I've liked H335 and W748 in my .223. 26 gr of H335 with the 50 gr Speer TNT shoots great and does a number on ground squirrels. I also like 27 gr of H335 with the 40 gr Ballistic Tip or V-Max.

I have had excellent luck with almost any 40 grain bullet over 28 grains of W 748 in my Ruger #1.
Pete

You fellows that have been using the 40 grainers; have you noticed any distinct difference between the terminal performance of the 40 or 50 grain bullets when shooting larger varmints beyond 250 yards (velocity vs. weight)?

Not sure how well my pet load for my 595 Tikka .223 would work on groundhogs, but I'm sure it would sting out to 250-300 yards. Try a 52 gr. Sierra HPBT w/25 gr. of H322. The kind of speed I was get was around 3150-3200 fps out of 22 inch tube on my Tikka. This load prints under a inch at 200 yards from this rifle.

[ 12-31-2002, 10:47: Message edited by: CK ]

I shoot several groundhogs every summer with a .223 and 40 grain BT's. I have shot alot over 300 yards with a few that have topped 400 yards. I used to use 50 and 55 grain bullets but have found that the 40 grainers shoot flatter and kill with the best of either 50 or 55 grainers, so I use the 40 exclusively now for the .223.
If the shots are over 400 yards then the heavier bullets will shine. when they start getting way out there I switch to my .22 CHeetah and the 75 grain A-maxes.

If I find the right load my Rem 700VS 26" will shoot 40, 50 and 55g bullets equally well. It really shines with the match bullets though, 52g A-max and Sierra Matchkingss in particular.

The terminal effects are not quite as interesting, but hitting what you are shooting at is very satisfying.

I have had very good luck with Nosler 55g BT also, especially at longer distances. I vote for heavier bullets.

Steve-O

I agree with dva01 I have found the 40grn V-max to be better in the 223 than 50 or 55 out to 350 yards. I have killed a couple of yotes at 350yrds and they all droped like thor droped the hammer on them. I continue to use the 40grn V-max for all varmints. If I need to shoot past 350yrds the 22-250AI comes out with 55grn or 60grn bullets.

The higher velocity and flatter trajectory of the 40's make them very attractive in the 223 class cartridge. However the heavier 50 grain bullet will go deeper in the animal at 250 yards, for no other reason than its heavier.

Dan

I'm with gunsdogs,,with light bullets[35-40gr],4198 rules. Yes,you're not going to get "perfect"drops every time,and yes you're not going to get the tightest #'s over a chrono.,,but the stuff groups bullets into one moa. @ 200 yds. I'm not gonna cry about that,and varied barrel lenghths at that![14-20 in] Happy Shooting!!!

I load the heavist bullet my rifle will shoot WELL!! Then when a long shot is presented, there is no question of "Will this round do its job or not?" If I can cover three shot goup with a dime at 100 yards using a 50 gr.V-Max, why would I want to use a 40 gr bullet? If I could get the same results from 55 gr. bullets, I would use them!

I have to go with the "heavier the better" brigade.

My Hornet shoots 40-grainers at near on 3100 fps. Hornady V-Max and Sierra BlitzKings are my favourites.

But when I bought the .223, it was because I wanted to go the next step up.

Admittedly, mine is a 1-in-9" twist, but it won't group anything under 55 gr at all. 64-gr Winchester bulk PPs are great, with more penetration for larger game like kangaroos or goats, while 69-gr MatchKings will drop 'em into a single hole but are unpredictable on game.

Even target shooting, I can still hold centre on the bull and drive 'em through the wind much longer than the guys shooting lighter projectiles.

FWIW

Bruce

Thunderstick: I shoot 5 different 223's at Varmints these days and I use respectively in each: the 50 gr. Hornady SXSP, the 50 gr. Sierra Blitz, the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tip, the Nosler 50 gr. Ballistic Tip and the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tip in another 223. As you can surmise I try and shoot the most accurate bullet for each particular Gun. The Nosler 40 grs. Ballistic Tips perform pretty well in my Guns. I have kiled lots of Varmints at 300 yards with these little pills! I don't try much beyond that with them.
If I had to choose my favorite 223 bullet it would be hands down - no contest - not even close the wonderful, accurate and inexpensive Sierra 50 gr. Blitz! Be sure and try this bullet if you are shopping around. It is very lethal on all size Varmints!
My all time favorite 223 load is as follows: Federal brass, Federal 205M primers, Sierra 50 gr. Blitz bullet with 26.5 grs. of H4895!
Good luck with your 223!
Hold into the wnd
VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy,
What velocity are getting with that load and what length barrel?

Thunderstick: I use that load in my 24" barreled Remington 700 PSS (Police Sniper Special) and the velocity reading I got 7 years ago over my Oehler chronograph was 3,305 FPS.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I love some kinds of "diversity". For the past two years I have spent my time trying various loads in the .223. I have a Ruger No. 1B, 77/VT and Savage 112BVSS. The .223 is an amazing cartridge. I have used W748, BL-C(2), H322 and Varget. My best loads with 40-gr. V-max are 25.5 of H322 and 30.0 of W748 (.450" @ 200 yds.) in the 77/VT. The No. 1 likes 28.0 of Varget and 30.0 of W748 with the 40-gr. For cheap shooting, both of these rifles like 50-gr. TNT or 50 SPSX with 24.5 of H322 or 27.0 of Varget. Will shoot 'em into 1/2 MOA all day.

I've shot many boxes of Sierra 52-gr. Match HPBTs, Hornady 40-gr. V-max's, 50-gr. V-max's, 50-gr. SPSXs, 55-gr. SPSXs, 53-gr. Match HPs and SPeer TNTs with the powders mentioned above. Have not found a bullet yet that won't shoot into 1/2 MOA with the right load of any of these powders. Most of the time, the max. load listed in Speer No. 13 manual is a good load.

In my 24" barrels, the 40s usual run 3550-3600 fps, the 50s 3350-3400 and the 55s 3250-3300. All my cases are neck-turned, flash hole deburred, sorted by weight and neck sized in Lee Collet dies. I have very inexpensive reloading equipment but get max. enjoyment from it.

just to throw in a few loads ive always had pretty good working around in my 223's. 26gr of h322 with a 50-52 grain bullet is usually pretty good for me, as is 26gr of h335. ive never had a lotta luck with 748 except with the heavier (69gr)bullets. another powder that ive found to work real well in 223s is AA2015br, the short extruded. i believe they have changed the powder to a ball now, but i could be mistaken, luckily, i have about 10lbs of the original 2015 if they did. vv133 and 135 are also ones i use now and then on workin up 223 loads.

cwend,
The best shooting load I have to date is with 26 gr. of H322, rem 7 1/2 primer, and the 50 gr B-tip. I have not chrono-ed this load yet. What velocity are you getting with 26 gr. of H322 and the 50 gr bullets?

My favorite load for my 223 is as follows.
Brass: Winchester
Bullet: Nosler 50 grain Ballistic Tip
Primer: Federal 205 match
Powder W748
Load: 27.7 grains
Note: This load is above listed max but shoots great and shows no signs of excessive pressure.
This last summer I shot and 18 shot group with it that you could cover with a penny. Why 18 shots well I was just having to much fun stacking them up I guess but at 18 the pressure got to much for me and I pulled the 19th shot. I sure hate it when that happens.