I'm looking to buy a Cooper Classic in 17M4. Anyone have one of these? any negatives? I like the shorter mdl 38 action better than the mdl 21. they all look like awesome shooters, Thnaks.

uplandr:
I have two Cooper 17 MIV's (both Mod 21's)...one should be yours. The one I really prefer to sell is a Varminter. Extra dies also.
If interested, contact me at gstasny@wildblue.net

Sorry, looking for a Classic.

I have a Model 21 in .17 Mach IV, and it is my second most accurate rifle.

The one I have has nice (not fantastic) wood, a good trigger, seeming good workmanship.

I do wish it was a repeater, though.

George

Just saw the 17-221 fireball being introduced by remington. I didnt read enough to share any information. might be worth a look. I'll now add my 2 cents and say im sold on the .204 your going to get more useable bullet weights. I would love to get my hands on a cooper in 20 vartarg but thats just me!

Cooper 17s seem to be real hit and miss. The Mach 4 seemd to be their problem child. I would wait get a 17 Fireball in Mod 7. You can have glass and be out the door for what a Cooper will cost. A Remington is a repeater and not too pretty to hunt with.

Uplandr: I have as yet not been successful on any of my dealings to obtain a Cooper Varminter!
I have bid and dealt on many of them.
I am cheap.
So that hampers me somewhat in obtaining one of those beautiful Rifles.
I do own many exquisite high end Model Kimbers and even Hunt with some of them. But the Coopers have all "eluded" me so far.
I though have been an enthusiastic owner and user of a Custom Rifle in caliber 17 MachIV.
I simply am in awe of the caliber!
Early in 1995 I took delivery of this Rifle and have been in love with the 17 MachIV caliber ever since!
The absolute lack of recoil, the excellent accuracy and the way beyond expected lethality of this round has to be experienced first hand to fully appreciate it!
I am sold on the 17 MachIV completely for Varmint Hunting.
No, kills aren't often "spectacular", with the 17 MachIV but the lethality factor is high!
I always relish telling of the first Hunt I took my 17 MachIV on a Varmint Hunt!
That Varmint Safari was in eastern Oregon and Rock Chucks, Coyotes, Badgers, Ground Squirrels and some flying Varmints were all brought to bag with the then new 17 MachIV!
The "highlight" of the extended Hunt was Hunting on a horse ranch that was plagued with Rock Chucks and the owner sent us out into his vast (and rock strewn) pastures to eliminate the Varmints.
We Hunted his ranch for three days. The first two mornings we each went in different directions and shot til our Rifles were dirty then walked back for "fresh iron" to continue our sport.
I ended up walking past this one field several times that had a huge rock outcropping in the middle of it and each time I passed it the Chucks (many of whom were real whoppers!) would scamper from the grass back to their large rock "island" there in the middle of the field. Easily there were 75 to 100 Rock Chucks living in, on and around that island.
The third morning found me ignoring all the shooting that could have been partaken of, as I slipped through the cover to get as close to this island as I could. I had the rising sun at my back and was fully camoed. I had along my Keb-Lab camoflaged shooting mat as well! I made it to within 325 yards (ranged) of the rock island and quickly set up! I so far had spooked but just a few of the Chucks and I had already conditioned myself not to be "shootin no little ones" after all the trouble I had gone through to get this far.
I scanned for the largest Chuck available anywhere in sight and settled the Leupold 6.5x20's Du-Plex crosshairs on the chest of "Mr. Big"!
I tickled the Jewell Trigger and watched as the 25 gr. Berger bullet entered the Chucks chest about an inch from where I had held!
Yeah! With the 17 MachIV you can spot your own hits and I am able to judge wind drift or mistakes in holdover that I may have "misjudged" by watching for the exact bullet impact point!
That double chubby Chuck weighed 12 pounds, at least, and it never quivered! It simply remained in its grass eating position without even "flagging" its tail!
I quickly picked another jumbo Chuck as they were scurrying for high ground now and not many of them were "overly" scared of the mild report and whose source they could not ascertain!
The next Chuck also died in its tracks! Twitching not the slightest after bullet entry!
I was grinning with glee, apprehension and amazement that these big Chucks were being killed so instantaneously - and over the fact that I could keep picking big mature Chucks as targets!
Chucks were now running and scrambling hither and yawn!
Over a period of 15 minutes or so, I fired a total of 8 times from that set up and killed 8 large, fully matureRock Chucks! No doubles, no gore, no double back flips, no high lifts, no follow-ups needed - just instant death on those fully mature Rock Chucks!
I was impressed.
I had taken several other Varmints on that initial trip with the 17 MachIV but that run on those Chucks is one of the highlights of my Varminting carreer!
Oh.. did I mention the ranges? The closest Chuck was at 325 yards and the far end of the rock island was 360 yards from me!
Careful shot placement with the 17 MachIV and use of a good bullet will yield a high lethality factor, trust me on that one!
I wish I could give you a first hand update on the Cooper's, but I can't.
I do have several Varminting friends with Coopers (none of which are in 17 MachIV though) and they are all happy with the Rifles in all respects.
I know you will enjoy the 17 MachIV caliber and I see that you are from Pennsylvania and maybe the mild report of the 17 MachIV will fit into the Varminting around there?
Best of luck with whichever Rifle/caliber you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Sitting here watching the rodeo finals wondering do I want to spend the money for a Cooper 17Mach 4 , or not well you guy's sold me will order in the morning.I love my 17 Remington 700 looking forward to the Cooper.
bill

Looking thru some old posts-didn't realize they were this old. I just made a deal for a Cooper 17FB Varminter, since this 17MachIV desire wouldn't go away. I post some results whenshe comes in.
Varmintguy-that's for your response. It should work well in my world.

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, I SPEND A LOT OF TIME SHOOTING PRAIRIE DOGS IN SEVERAL STATES. I WILL REPEAT SOME OF THE THINGS SAID ABOVE BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE. YOU HAVE PROBABLY HEARD MOST OF THIS BEFORE BUT THIS IS WHAT I KNOW.

I HAVE HAD A COOPER .17 MACH IV, MONTANA VARMINTER, FOR SEVERAL YEARS. I SHOOT 20 GR V MAXs WITH 4198, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER CHOICES BUT WHY MESS WITH SUCCESS OR PAY MORE FOR SOMETHING ELSE. MY FOCUS IS ON FIELD ACTIVITY. THIS GUN IS HIGHLY ACCURATE AND EFFECTIVE.

I FORM ALL THE BRASS FROM NEW .221 FIREBALL BRASS IN A DILLON RL550 B USING IMPERIAL SIZING WAX. I SET UP THE 4 SHAPING DIES SO THAT IT STARTS OUT AS A .221 AND WHEN IT DROPS OUT THE OTHER END IT IS A PERFECTLY FORMED .17 MACH IV. THERE IS NO NEED TO TRIM IT. THIS GOES VERY FAST. EACH STROKE OF THE PRESS GIVES ME A NEWLY FORMED PIECE OF BRASS. I CHAMFER THE CASE MOUTH SO THE BULLETS WILL FEED MORE EASILY. IT TOOK ME AWHILE TO FIGURE ALL THIS OUT BUT NOW IT IS A NO BRAINER.

IMR 4198 DOES NOT FEED WELL IN THE DILLON SO I POUR AND WEIGH CHARGES FOR IT. HODGDON 4198 DOES FEED WELL IN THE DILLON SO THAT IS A LOT FASTER. WHAT I USE DEPENDS ON WHICH SIDE OF THE BED I GET OUT OF AND WHICH CAN OF POWDER I FIND FIRST IN MY RELOADING ROOM. I CANNOT TELL ANY DIFFERENCE IN VELOCITY, ACCURACY OR PERFORMANCE BETWEEN LOADS MEASURED VERY CAREFULLY ON A DIGITAL SCALE AND THOSE THROWN IN ROUTINE USE OF THE DILLON.

I DO NOT FIRE FORM THE BRASS. INSTEAD, I LOAD IT UP AND GO HUNTING. I CANNOT TELL ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BRASS THAT HAS BEEN FIRED A FEW TIMES AND THE NEW BRASS. AS BEST I CAN TELL THE PDs CANNOT TELL ANY DIFFERENCE EITHER. I AM NORMALLY VERY PRECISE AND STUDY EVERYTHING FROM A TO Z AND PAY METICULOUS ATTENTION TO ALL DETAILS BUT I AM MORE INTERESTED IN SHOOTING IN THE FIELD THAN TESTING THINGS FOR EXTREME LIMITS OF PERFORMANCE. OLD RUSSIAN PROVERB: "THE ENEMY OF GOOD ENOUGH IS BETTER."

THIS GUN CONSISTENTLY TERMINATES PRAIRIE DOGS OUT AROUND 350 YARDS AS DESCRIBED BY OTHERS ABOVE. NO KICK, NO LOSS OF SIGHT PICTURE, NO RED MIST, NO FLYING BODIES OR BODY PARTS, JUST A TOTALLY DEAD, INERT PD. YOU SEE THE PD's BODY TAKE THE SHOCK AND THEN GO TOTALLY LIMP. THIS IS ITS OWN FORM OF INSTANT VISUAL GRATIFICATION.

MY SCOPE IS A LEUPOLD 6.5 TO 25 X 30 WITH SIMPLE CROSSHAIRS. I NORMALLY KEEP IT ON THE HIGHER POWER. YOU NEED TO SEE WELL TO SHOOT WELL. THE SIDE FOCUS IS WONDERFUL AND NECESSARY AT VARYING RANGES. THE SCOPE COST AS MUCH AS THE GUN. THIS SETUP WAS AN EXCELLENT INVESTMENT.

ONE CAUTION IS THAT IF THERE IS A WIND, THE GUN BECOMES ALMOST WORTHLESS. THEN YOU NEED TO SWITCH GUNS.

IT SIMPLY CANNOT BUCK THE WIND.

MANY 1,000s OF PRARIE DOGS REGRET THAT I OWN THIS GUN.

INCIDENTALLY, I COATED A BUNCH OF BULLETS WITH TUNGSDEN DISULFIDE, LIKE MOLLY, AND COULD NOT TELL ANY DIFFERENCE IN ACCURACY BUT IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THEY WERE SMOOTHER TO SHOOT. THE KICK WAS NOT QUITE AS SHARP. I LIKE SMOOTH. AFTER SHOOTING SEVERAL HUNDRED ROUNDS IN A DAY YOU CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE. THE FIELD TEST RESULT WAS THEY WORKED FINE AND THE GUN SEEMED TO STAY CLEANER LONGER. I PLAN TO USE THIS ON ALL MY AMMO IN THE FUTURE.

YOU NEED TO CLEAN THIS GUN EVERY FEW HUNDERED ROUNDS OR ACCURACY SUFFERS. THIS IS NOT A BIG HARDSHIP. I CAN TELL IT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED BECAUSE I START MISSING FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON. THAT IS PART OF SHOOTING THIS CALIBER. I HAVE FOUND THIS TO BE TRUE WITH SEVERAL OTHER GUNS AND THEREFORE THIS IS SOMEWHAT OF A MUTE POINT. IT IS COMMON SENSE THAT GUNS NEED TO BE CLEANED TO MAINTAIN ACCURACY. A FEW CLEANING PATCHES WITH A COMMON SOLVENT SUCH AS HOPPES #9 AND YOU ARE GOOD TO START AGAIN. A MORE THOROUGH CLEANING WOULD NOT HURT BUT YOU CAN WAIT UNTIL YOU GET HOME. I WORK AT THIS LONG AND HARD AT HOME BUT THE POINT IS A CASUAL CLEANING IN THE FIELD SEEMS TO WORK FINE. ANYHOW THIS WORKS FOR ME.

AN IMPORTANT STEALTH FACTOR IS THE LOW NOISE LEVEL. THE RANCHERS LIKE THE LOW NOISE AND NORMALLY TELL ME SO. THEY ALSO LIKE THE SMALL CARTRIDGE SIZE BECAUSE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT ACCIDENTS FROM BIG GUNS. THEY ARE MORE COOPERATIVE WHEN I SHOW THEM THE SMALL ROUNDS. THE LOW NOISE LEVEL KEEPS THE PDS FROM GOING TO GROUND AND ENABLES ME TO SHOOT LONGER. LOW NOISE IS BETTER ALL AROUND.

I HAVE A VARIETY OF PD GUNS. I USE A T/C ENOCRE .22 K HORNET WITH A BULLBERRY BARREL FOR CLOSE IN WORK, SAY OUT TO 200 YARDS, BECAUSE IT IS CHEAP TO SHOOT AND WITH HIGH VOLUME SHOOTING THAT IS A BIG FACTOR. IT SHOOTS SEVERAL DIFFERENT LOADS VERY ACCURATELY. THE .17 MACK IV IS MY FAVORITE FOR FURTHER OUT. I ALSO HAVE COOPER VARMINTERS IN .204 AND .221 FIREBALL. I ALSO HAVE A A .17 HMR, A .223, A .22-250, A 22 MAG, AND A HIGH END .22LR. EACH HAS ITS PLACE. EACH IS EXCELLENT IN ITS OWN NICHE. I PREFER TO USE THE MINIMAL FIREPOWER I CAN GET BY WITH.

I FIND MYSELF REACHING FOR THE .17 MACH IV FIRST UNLESS THERE IS A GOOD REASON TO GRAB ANOTHER GUN.

THE .22 K HORNET IS MY SECOND FAVORITE GUN. IT WILL BLOW SOMETHING UP JUST AS GOOD AS ANY OF THE LARGER GUNS. YOU JUST HAVE TO PICK THE RIGHT LOAD. THIS IS MY 5TH HORNET SETUP AND I AM EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH THE T/C AND THE BULLBERRY BARREL. BULLBERRY BUILT THE WHOLE SET UP FOR ME AND I AM VERY IMPRESSED. I WENT FOR THE STAINLESS STEEL WITH A SYNTHETIC STOCK IN CAMO. LOOKS GREAT AND IS VERY DURABLE AND EASY TO KEEP CLEAN. I WENT THROUGH A LOT OF TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS HUNTING FOR A HORNET THAT WOULD SHOOT WELL AND I FINALLY HIT THE JACKPOT. I FEEL LIKE I COULD WRITE A BOOK ON WHAT NOT TO DO, WHO MAKES A POOR PRODUCT, ETC. YOU NEED TO APPRECIATE THAT I WAS EXTREMELY STUBBORN ABOUT FINDING A GOOD HORNET BECAUSE THE FIRST FEW I OWNED WERE CLASSIC LEMONS. INITIALLY, I BLEW A LOT OF MONEY WITHOUT GOOD RESULTS. I KEPT HEARING ABOUT GOOD HORNETS AND TOOK THE ADVICE ON ANOTHER HUNTER AND WENT FOR THE BULLBERRY BARREL. TELL THEM THE LOAD YOU WANT TO SHOOT AND THEY WILL BUILD THE BARREL TO MATCH. NO PUN INTENDED. THE BARREL IS EXTREMELY THICK AND HEAVY AND THAT STABILITY ENABLES MORE ACCURACY AS WELL AS NO SIGNIFICANT MOVEMENT WHEN THE GUN GOES OFF. I HAVE BEEN EXPERIMENTING WITH 45 GR HOLLOWPOINTS, 40 GR V-MAX, AND VARMINT GRENADES. THEY ALL WORK VERY WELL. THE EXPLOSION OF BODY PARTS IS SOMETIMES UNBELIEVABLE. THEY ARE NORMALLY MORE DRAMATIC THAN THE MACH IV BUT THE RANGE IS A LOT SHORTER. EVERYONE WHO HAS SHOT MY T/C HORNET HAS BEEN VERY IMPRESSED.

I THINK OF THE .22K AS MORE LIKE A MORTAR. A MORE THAN ADEQUATE SIMPLE AND EFFECTIVE MORTAR.

THE .17 MACH IV IS ONE MEAN LITTLE FLAT SHOOTING GUN THAT WILL REACH WAY OUT THERE AND DO THE JOB ALL DAY LONG.

FOR A CHANGE, I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ANOTHER NEW GUN.

GOOD LUCK.

............Terminator Jon ;;;;;;; That was a really good post ... Welcome to the Accurate Reloading Forums ..........It is good to know about the 17 not being good in the wind ......... I still like the 17 and may get one sometime ....Have you shot many fox or coyote with the 17 ?? Does it make a mess of the fur ??

I've had a stardard varminter M21 in M4 for about six years and it's a great rifle! The 20g V Max with 20.3g of H335 is my load and chrono's at 4250fps with no pressure signs. It shoots like a laser! I've shot squirrels in 15-25mph winds and never had to hold more than two squirrels of wind at 300 yards. I've heard alot over the years about the 17s being useless in the wind but at 4250 fps I have never had much of a problem. I'm sure you'll find the M4 a pleasure to own and shoot.

GUMBOOT,

I WILL GIVE YOU THE BEST REPLY I CAN. SOMETIMES I TALK ALOT. SORRY FOR THAT.

I HAVE NOT USED THE M4 ON ANYTHING BUT PDs AND THINK IT WOULD BE A LITTLE LIGHT FOR FOX AND COYOTES BUT I EXPECT THAT IT WOULD KILL THEM WITH LITTLE FUR DAMAGE BECAUSE I DO NOT THINK IT WOULD TYPICALLY COME OUT THE OTHER SIDE. IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU HIT THEM. THE V MAX SIMPLY BLOWS UP INSIDE THE ANIMAL AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO IN EVERY CALIBER. THE LARGER THE MASS OF THE BULLET, THE LARGER THE EXPLOSION. I GUESS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE HOW MUCH DAMAGE IS APPROPRIATE AND THE M4 SEEMS TO DO ENOUGH BUT NO MORE THAN THAT. I WOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT ANYTHING LIKE GRASS OR A TWIG BETWEEN YOU AND THE ANIMAL. THE VMAX WOULD BLOW UP ON A STRAND OF HAY OR MAYBE EVEN A STRAND OF BARBED WIRE. NO ONE DOES THAT, RIGHT! HOW MUCH PENETRATION DO YOU NEED TO GET TO THE ANIMAL? A VMAX HAS VIRTUALLY NO PENETRATION BEFORE EXPLODING. THIS IS GOOD AND BAD. DEPENDS ON YOU.

I AM NOT REALLY A FOX OR COYOTE HUNTER. THE LAST SEVERAL COYOTES I SHOT WERE CHANCE ENCOUNTERS WITH MUCH LARGER RIFLES. IE A .338 WIN MAG. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE THE TIME TO HUNT YOTES A LOT. MAYBE AFTER THE KID GETS THROUGH COLLEGE.

SWD IS PROBABLY BETTER THAN I AM AT DOPING THE WIND. SOUNDS LIKE HE HAS FIGURED SOME THINGS OUT THAT I COULD PAY ATTENTION TO. TYPICALLY WHERE I HUNT, COLORADO, NEBRASKA, AND WYOMING, WHEN THE WIND COMES UP TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE, AND IT USUALLY GETS INTENSE, IT GETS PRETTY STRONG AND GUSTY. YOU NEED TO HOLD ON TO YOUR HAT AND WAIT UNTIL THINGS STOP VIBRATING AROUND. THAT MAY BE TOMORROW MORNING. MOST SHOTS ARE A GAMBLE, AND IT MAY MEAN THE END OF THE DAY BECAUSE IT IS JUST IMPRACTICAL TO CONTINUE SHOOTING. THIS IS TRUE WHETHER YOU SWITCH TO A HEAVIER GUN OR NOT.

BUT,IT SURE IS FUN TO GUESS THE HOLD AND CONNECT. THAT IS IF YOU AND YOUR RIG DO NOT GET BLOWN TO THE NEXT COUNTY. ALONG WITH THE WIND YOU MAY GET A LOT OF SAND AND DUST IN YOUR GUNS AND THAT IS SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT. WHY DO I REMEMBER THIS FRUSTRATION SO WELL? PROBABLY BECAUSE I HAVE TO DRIVE SO FAR TO HUNT AND I WOULD LIKE CALMER SHOOTING.

WHEN GUESSING FOR WIND DRIFT, I TOO USUALLY GUESS IN TERMS OF PD WIDTHS AND SOMETIMES I CAN CONSISTENTLY MAKE KILLS BY TRIAL AND ERROR ADJUSTMENTS OF MY AIMING POINT. TYPICALLY I CAN GET ZEROED IN WITH JUST A FEW CAREFULL SHOTS. THIS IS TRUE WITH ALL MY GUNS. WHEN I START MISSING BECAUSE OF THE WIND, I USUALLY METHODICALLY SHIFT FROM AIMING AT THE CENTER OF THE PD TO THE UPWIND EDGE OF THE PD AND THEN MAYBE ONE OR TWO PD WIDTHS FURTHER OFF CENTER. THIS CAN BE SIMILAR TO THE FRUSTRATION YOU GET WHEN YOU SWITCH LOADS WITHOUT CHANGING THE ZERO. THE M4 DOES NOT TYPICALLY MAKE BIG DUST CLOUD SO YOU MAY HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING YOUR HITS UNLESS, HOPEFULLY, THE PD FOLDS UP. THE KEY TO CONSISTENT SUCCESS IN THE WIND IS WHETHER OR NOT THE WIND IS STEADY. ALSO, YOU NEED TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU SHIFT YOUR AIM WITH RESPECT TO WIND DIRECTION, OR THE WIND SHIFTS, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT 90 DEGREES, ALL YOUR COMPENSATION ADJUSTMENT EXPERIMENTS MAY NEED TO START ALL OVER BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY NEED A DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF DRIFT CORRECTION OR MAYBE NONE AT ALL. THIS WOULD ALSO BE TRUE IF THE WIND VELOCITY CHANGES SIGNIFICANTLY. SHOOTING STRAIGHT INTO THE WIND OR DOWNWIND IS A TRICK I SOMETIMES USE TO MINIMIZE THE WIND ERROR. HEAVIER BULLETS TEND TO BUCK THE WIND BETTER AND THUS I TEND TO SHOOT A HEAVIER GUN WHEN THE WIND COMES UP. I FIND ALL THE SUBTLE WIND SHIFTS HARD TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHILE I AM TAKING CAREFUL AIM. MAYBE A WIND METER AND SOME FLAGS WOULD HELP A LOT OR MAYBE BETTER A FRIEND TO READ THE WIND WHILE YOU FOCUS ON LETTING OFF YOUR SHOT.

I GUESS THIS ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU SEE AS A CHALLENGE AND WHAT IS MOST FUN. IT IS THE HARD SHOTS THAT I REMEMBER. THIS IS ONE SPORT WHERE YOU CAN GLOAT TO YOURSELF AS MUCH AS YOU WANT.

BY THE WAY I USE A LEICA RANGE FINDER AND THAT IS A HIGHLY USEFUL PIECE OF GEAR THAT IS WELL WORTH THE PRICE. I HAVE FOUND I CANNOT JUDGE RANGE WELL IN OPEN COUNTRY WITH SPARSE VEGETATION. THE LASER RANGE FINDER IS A WONDERFULL INVENTION. IT TELLS YOU A LOT.

WHAT EVER ELSE I HAVE SAID, I REALLY LOVE THE .17 MACH IV. IT IS A REAL RIFLEMAN'S RIFLE. SURGICAL PRECISION AT ITS FINEST. AND YOU GET TO SEE THE BULLET HIT. ABSOLUTLEY WONDERFUL. NO PAIN AND ALL FUN. I THINK OF IT AS BEING IN A CLASS BY ITSELF.

HAPPY HUNTING

Here is a BIG negative to me when considering buying ANY Cooper rifle from now on..

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-27-prez-money_N.htm

Yep, I have owned four Coopers, currently owning two Mod 21's.
No more in my future, based on today's news!

Greg

Have owned but not again.
Sell outs don't deserve our dollars.
Now he will be paying "a little more taxes..." on little or no income. Because you now don't deserve any support from the gun owning public.
I truly hope HE HAS TO SELL OFF HIS COMPANY, Like the former owners of Smith and Wesson had to(a pox on the British holding company)

I'll stop ranting

muck

what Muck said plus one. Screw cooper and his candidate.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I unfortunatly can no longer reccomend Cooper rifles. While I will not not be selling the two I already have, I will be calling them my little red commie guns...Please do not support a manufacture who supports anti gunners!

Ya he probably belongs to the same coven that Hussien Obama does ,, ..
What an ignorant Retard .. He gives away a measly 4,300 bucks and it will mayby cost him his lively hood ... Glad I never wasted my money on his junk ....

And there is a reply posted on one of the forums, MAUSER CENTRAL from a friend of mine who called them today or emailed the company. It was a "we didn't do it!, we just work here!" kind of reply from the employees. My reply was to wish all the employees a great future in their endeavors!! It's not their fault they were mis-lead by Mr. Cooper...............or should that be "mr cooper"(no capitilazation)? GHD

Yep, the REAL tragedy here is the employees will pay heavily for Dan Cooper's relationship with Obama.

Fuck Dan Cooper.. He's aiding and abetting the enemy.

Don

This came out overnite for cooper's website. Interesting read, maybe someone has some sense.

http://www.cooperfirearms.com/

Here's an interesting last line on their site under company history....

"Dan is a former employee of Kimber of Oregon and Cooper Firearms, Inc."

Did they fire him or did he resign???

neither one...they just changed the name of the company a few years back. He still owns the current company, something like cooper firearms of montana, or a similiar name. Still supporting obammy.

Rich DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

if you buy new it will be a 17 Fireball, stopped chambering as 17 Mach IV since remington did their thing with the 17 Fireball.

Go with the 21, the 38 action length is too short. have two 38 on a K Hornet another in 218 Bee. both have limitations on overall length and extacting when seated just off the lands. have 5 Model 21s and have no overall length issues with them