Buck88: I wonder how many tree hugger types would also jump out of their stinky undies if they knew that when I was a young man there was a BOUNTY on seals and seal lions! And Salmon steaks were afoordable to the average breadwinner back then also - coincidence? I think not!

These overagressive Salmon & Steelhead eaters (the marine mammals - Otters, Seal Lions and Seals) used to be actively Hunted and trapped. The results were many fewer "slaughters" and inefficient eatings of Salmon and Steelhead in the mouths of rivers.

There needs to be balance of course but the Seals and Sea Lions are way way way to numerous in the mouths of many western and Alaskan rivers including the Columbia River and the Makah country also.

I am 100% for your efforts and the return of BOUNTIES on Seals and Sea Lions until they are back in balance.

If you ever need a back up shooter out there in Washington state give me a call and I will DRIVE there from Montana to help out!

And a hearty welcome to this forum from a man that was born and raised on the Cedar River (near Renton, Washington). I saw what the Seals and Sea Lions can do to a native run of Steelhead and Chinook Salmon first hand. I watched them struggle just to exist (by escaping the Seals and Seal Lions) over nearly 5 decades of living on this river. The fine and fuzzy little marine mammals (Varmints?) recently succeeded in completely wiping out those once hearty runs of fish! Killed EVERY last one of them! They will never come back. Thanks to the Seals and Sea Lions there in Seattles Salmon Bay! I have should have gone into action when I could have!

Keep after them!

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Alright I have scaned what I have here (not the accutal license but some of the regulations, I have to get more tags when I get a chance. Also I am part of the Makah Tribe, and spend my time at home volunteering as a EMT, and up until leaving to school I was employed by the Police Dept. as the EMS Coordinator. And have also worked for the Dept. of Fisheries for a few years.



clayman204- I am Sorry for the 99% guestimate, that number is not a hard fact, just a estimation. I have worked for Public Safty as the EMS Coordinator. I was overseen by the Chief of Police and worked out of the Police dept. here is where I leared of the rabies. I don't know if you are aware of how Tribal Reservations are ran, but they are independent of the State. And our tribe is poor enough not to provide animal control, the best we can do is a "Round up" every other year or so and the last one was a few years back, and we filled up a couple of pick-up beds full of dead dogs.

Alright this is what I got. If it is to fuzy for you I can E-Mail it to you. This is only the Regs for what to do when you are fishing, but they clearly state that you may take Sea Mamals during season, I don't have any tags(permits) with me at school, but I will be getting some next chance I get. Hope this clears up any questions you had.



Now I would hate to think of the site as being filled with a buch of "Tree-Huggers," but do you all care this much when some one asks for a good deer load. If I ask for a load for my 375H&H am I going to have to show you my Elk Tags???? That is how backward we have become, we are all so Politically Correct that we are guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around.



All I am asking is if anyone has reliable load that would kill a seal/Sealion fast enough to not allow it to dive, and sink?

J-Buck
Well, when I'm wrong I'm REALLY wrong. That one fella that posted saw it quick, that you being Native American would be the obvious explanation, but I was asleep at the switch. I can not apologize enough. Nevertheless,--------I'm sorry. I humbly apologize. Should have seen it. The majority of hunters are just not used to sea mammals being fair game. That sounds like an excuse. I meant it as an explanation. The most embarresing aspect of this situation is that I am 1/2 Cherokee. So to have insulted you in such a fashion I find particularly aggregious. I am humbled.

I have visited the Makah Reservation. Years ago. I followed the news regarding the Makah peoples waleing rights with interst. Was upset that there was ever even any opposition.

Nope. Fellows asking for an elk load are never asked to present tags. Sea mammals? I just didn't see the obvious connection to your situation. Stupid.

I see why you question the presence of tree huggers. Still, I wonder do you inquire about the seals and such so as to retrieve them? Should be much usefull parts there.

Any way, good question about terminal preformance of small cal. bullets. I keep wishing that Barnes would do something with their solid coppers for .20 cal. Has to do with sustenence. I live near (30 miles) the Nosler factory and last time I visited their retail facility I asked if they were ever going to produce a premium bullet for the .20 cal. The answer was a resounding "Probably not". Not much help. I'll shut up now. Probably should have much sooner. Never the less, pleased to make your aquaitance. Good luck with the Cooper. Nice rifle.
Clayman204

I asked on the Nosler forum if they were thinking about producing a 20 cal. slug and the administrator said

"Right now our lines are absolutly filled for AccuBond, Partition, and Ballistic Tip, not to mention our Custom Competition and Handgun lines.

We are building a 20,000 sq/ft expansion. This will allow us to do a better job of bringing out newer products and expanding our existing lines.

To answer your question, the 20 cal is on the table right now. It will be discussed on nearly a weekly basis. The more people that tell us to make one, chances are we will.

But for right now, no. The 20 cal is on the plate, but when we introduce one is up to you guys."

Let them know what you want and maybe we'll see them produce it for us Nosler fans.
Happy Hunting,
slygunner

Just a qusetion.

Do you see the 204 as any thing other then a "Varmint" round. Will there ever be any thing like a Barnes X, or Nosler Partition? Just wondering what this round will become.

I speculate that eventualy sombody will come out with a tougher bullet in .20 cal. But untill they do, I don't see the 204 as much more than a "varmint". cal. Even if/after somebody came out with a tougher bullet, it would be an interesting debate as to wether or not the comparativly light bullets have enough grunt to ethically get the job done on anything but varmints. Of course, with proper shot placement, "grunt" becomes less issue. I also speculate that a majority of the debaters would come down on the side of "vamint" only. In fact I'm not even confident that there are arguments availiable on a "more than varmint" side. I can't think of any. Except for a sustenence situation, in which case I would definately want a stouter bullet than what is currently availiable. Which probably makes the new Ruger 204 a poor choice for such an application, unless it was all that was availiable. Just my thoughts.
Clayman 204

But come to think of it ther's a lot of tiny little deer up on the inside passage up around Petersburg, Ketchican, Juneau and such that aint much bigger than a yote. 204 probably work fine on them with careful shot placement. Ifn I was hungry I wouldn't hesitate to use it that way. Wouldn't be my first choice of rifle, but I reckon it could get the job done. Mine is accurate as all get out.