Another question in a (hopefully) small series of questions about PD scopes and their handling:

I am a total disbeliever in adjusting my big game scopes for elevation correction in the field. I just *know* that if I adjust my scope for a particular distance, sure as heck in the thick of things, I'll forget that I made the adjustment, and the next time I need to make a shot at a different distance, I'll be off there as well. Keep things simple, there is enough pressure to make things go wrong in a hunting situation without you adding to them! So I use the probably less precise method of simple holdover, for big game the size of the target makes that a simple, viable alternative.

BUT, I gather that adjusting for elevation is an accepted technique for the people who "really" know something about shooting at long range. I belive this is a standard technique used in the military or other similar (sniper) applications, and even for long range target shooting, although here the issue is probably more about correction for wind since the target is at a known range? I have never used a shooter's "log book" (is that the right term?), but I believe that religious use of such a log is how these guys keep track of the modifications they made.

I'd like to get your collective opinion about using this technique for varmint shooting.

Do you click in corrections (e.g. for elevation) in the field?

If yes, how do you remember where you are - log or simply use a scope with an adjustable zero setting?

Will simple holdover work for PD hunting?

Your opinions and experience would be much appreciated!

- mike

mho

I adjust the scope in the field and I'll go through the process of zero to shooting if I can recall it all.

First a bit on equipment... I use Butler Creek scope caps on my scopes. On the inside of the rear cap I have a sticky label attached...on it are the setting (in MOA) for various distances (usually 100 yard increments to 500 then 50 yard increments to whatever). Looks like this (sort of as I hand write the label.

100 = -0-
200 = 1.75
300 = 4.0
400 = 7.0
500 = 10.75
550 = 12.25
etc
etc

These MOA values are determined by actual field condition shooting sessions for the rifle and ammo. If I change ammo or geographic locale (significant temperature or elevation change) I make a new chart.

The scopes I use have large target turrets, these turrets have two marking systems as a rule. One set of calibration marks are around the knob of the turret, the MOA index marks. These are often incremented in values of 1 full MOA with tick marks at the .25 MOA value. A full revolution of the turret knob will amount to 10 to 15 MOA generally (depending on the scope). The second set of calibration marks are on the turret housing pillar...these are visible at the lower edge of the turret knob and give the shooter an indication of the number of revolutions the turret knob has been moved.

I record the "Zero" revolution counter mark on the sticky label in the rear scope cap also. sort of like this

code:

---

------
  |
2--
  |
  --1

---

Once I zero the rifle/scope at 100 yards I loosen the allen screws on the turrets and set the MOA calibration mark to -0- on both the elevation and windage knobs.

In the field (hunting) I walk generally walk around (stalk) with the scope adjusted to the 1 or 2 MOA elevation mark. I use 1 MOA for varmints and/or flat trajectory rifles and 2 MOA for big game rifles. I do this so that if an animal appears during the stalk I can immediately shoot to about 250 yards without a scope adjustment. If I happen upon a critter that id further away (game or varmint) I setup (prone), range and re-adjust the scope for yardage to the animal (I extrapolate for intermediate yardages).

Once I have made the shot I immediately set the scope back to the -0- MOA mark and the correct revolution index make if I turned more than 1 revolution. A common error here is to turn the scope knob in the incorrect direction to reset it to -0-...this will place the scope zero 10 to 15 MOA too high...take care in turning in the correct direction. This type error is the reason I have the revolution index mark recorded on the scope settings label...I double check these thhings several times during a days shooting. I also double check these thihngs after anyone touches or examines my rifle (folks like to turn the knobs).

As long as you develop the habit of immediately returning the scope to -0- MOA and the base rev. index then selecting the appropriate "stalking" setting you will have no trouble...

Other folks use an MOA (or "click") chart attached to the side of the rifle stock... I don't do this as I don't likie to change my shooting position to read the suggested MOA settings.

I have a complete set of charts (usually several sets) with 25 yard increments in the Eagle Industries Stock Pack that I have on each rifle I shoot. I laminate these charts so they're waterproof and also have a small Rite in the Rain note pad and a pencil in the stock pack. Other gear I keep in there includes allen wrenches to reset the turrets and tighten the rifle stock, a small knife and a little "AAA" flashlight.

Here are a few links give you a visual assist.

Stock pack

http://www.snipercountry.com/EagleStockPack.htm

MOA marked turret knobs

http://www.excaliburenterprises.com/scopes/leupold/tactical.html

[ 09-10-2003, 15:57: Message edited by: David King ]

The first thing to look for in a Varmint/target scope is tall tower adjustments. These will have a resettable -0- adjustments. Set your scope for a known -0-, record this on paper, or tape it to the side of your stock, know your click values, click up or down to your target. The towers have slashes/graduations you need to learn. When shooting extreme ranges, 1000 yds for example, you may need to go 4 complete turns on the dial. This all depends on your caliber and scope total clicks. For example, my 300 win mag, I need +28 @ 100 yds to have a 1000 yd -0-. Be sure your scope has this much elevation. Some scopes only have 26" available. The way around this, is use Burris Signature rings, change the inserts to +10 or +20 to shim the scope up. This give you more elevation. Hope this helps.....

Any good varmint scope or target scope will have target turrents, that you can zero your rifle at 100 yds, then take off the turrent and reset the zero marking. With a trajectory chart from a manual, several have them ( Nosler, Hornady, Sierra) you can determine how many clicks you need for a given yardage.
I normally shoot at varmints ( prairie dogs at 400 yds, max with a 22/250). The load I use is 34.5 grains of RL 7 with a 40 grain Ballistic tip or Blitzking. This load chronographs at 4450 fps.

Prairie Dogs range in size from the size of a 12 ounce Coke Can to a 1 Litre bottle in height, on average.

According to the trajectory chart in the 4th edition Nosler manual, when zeroed at 100 yds, at 200 yds the bullet is 0.4 inches high ( so I don't have to touch the target turrent). At 300 yds, I need to be 1.6 inches high, so I move the target turrents up to 1.5 or 1.75 inches ( if you have 1/4 minute clicks, if you have 1/8 minute clicks you can adjust, however, either one is fine for a prairie dog). If I determine the target is at 400 yds, then I need to set my elevation of the target turrent at 3.3 inches high.

I don;t like shooting at that small of a target, at 500 yds, even in open country. I don't think it is personally ethical for me. However, to be zeroed at 500 yds, with the above load, I adjust the scope turrents to 5.5 inches high.

This load is flat shooting so it is an example of a long range, varmint type set up.

On a regular hunting rifle, Leupold and Weaver Scopes have a dial that can be spun to where your zero is. when you adjust your scope higher for farther out zeroes, it still marks where your 100 yd zero is. I can't vouch for European scopes having this feature, as I view them as overpriced for any of my needs.

To me for cost effectiveness, a Leupold Vari X 2 is darn hard to beat.

However, in my experience I would say 85% of all the prairie dogs I have shot, were taken within 200 yds. My normal varmint load for Prairie dogs for the bulk of those shots, are a 223 with 12.5 grains of Blue Dot shot gun powder. Zeroed 3 inches high at 100 yds, hits dead on at 200. A little holdover stretches that to 225 to 240 or so. When I am stationary, I set up both the 223, and the 22/250. I use the 22/250 on shots that are 250yds and out, only. With the Blue Dot load it takes eternity to heat the barrel up, since I am not burning much powder and what I am burning is burning very efficiently.

As a final note, if you have scopes that are Simmons, Tasco or some of the other Far Eastern makes, a Company called Stoney Point makes Target turrents to Fit these scopes. They are about $25.00 a piece or so thru Cabelas or MidwayUSA. A lot of my Target scopes are Tasco's Target models. They work fine as I have them on stationary light recoiling rifles.
for most of my varmint work, 4 x 16 range fits 99 % of my needs. However I do have a few 8 x 32s and a couple of 10 x40s, mainly because the price was right.

Hope that helps and good luck.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I admire your technical prowess, and envy you the opportunity of this much long range shooting! There is really only one thing that will teach you to shoot well: practice. Over here, we can get as much practice we want, but not at these extended ranges, and not under field conditions (wind etc). Consequently, we don't develop the skills. Europe should have less people and more places open to riflery!
- mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David King:
[QB]mho

I adjust the scope in the field and I'll go through the process of zero to shooting if I can recall it all.

-snip

This is an excellent description David. I could not have explained it better. Nice job.

mho, I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I mostly "walk around and shoot". The towns I hunt are smaller and spread out.

Most of the shots I take are 100-150 yards. If I need to get closer, I walk (sneak) and wait.

If I need to take a longer shot (200-250 yards), I hold-over. AN inch or two above the top of the head is my limit. I never adjust zero in the field unless its obvious its off.