Anyone out there in other states fighting for
your rights to hunt with a rifle ? Well here in
Western Pa I just found out that our Game Commission is going to a Zone system vs. county
by county for deer hunting.It just happens that
Beaver county is going to be zoned with Allegheny
county and slug guns only,how the hell are we going to shoot woodchucks for the local farmers
now I guess its rim fire time! And what is really
amazing the varmit hunters I've talked to say
well I'am ok in my area,Yeah right for now your
are!! If there is a genius game comission employee
on this board how do you equate slug gun for deer
hunting vs.no rifle for varmits?

brudford-

Being born & raised in that area, it's all about the human population growth. It's the urban spread from Pgh moving out. Too many houses, not enough "wide open spaces", making rifle shooting a risky proposition any more. It's not about "slug guns for deer", it's about the safety factor overall.

Here in southern Michigan we are limited to slugs and MZ's only for deer which is no real problem . We are allowed to use CF rifles, any caliber, to hunt varmints with the exception of 5 days prior to/and during the regular firearms deer season. How is your proposed regulation worded? We had a ban on any other type of hunting during the spring turkey seasons (~7 weeks) a few years back, even on private land. Farmers and 'chuck hunters went nuts and it was lifted in short order.

Brudford,

I hunt in McKean County for woodchucks, turkey and deer, so your post caught my eye.

I immediately went to the PA Game Commission website, but I am unable to find anything about what you state.

Where did you hear this "rifle ban" from?

There was talk of that happening in some of the Eastern counties such as Lancaster, Lebanon etc. It wasn't passed. I haven't heard any proposals for slug only yet. I have the same concern over ground hog hunting. I'd hate to give up my rifles or have to drive for hours to use them.

Bob257

Check the regs to make sure that you can't use rifles, period. Here in Iowa we have to use slugs, straight-walled case pistols, of ML for deer, but we can use varmint rifles for varmints. Check and see if you'll be able to shoot your chucks with your favorite chuck gun.
Yardbird

Here is the link to the PA Game Commission website:

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/

I'm not sure about this particular proposal, but this type of thing has been kicked around before and is always packaged as a "safety"/"for the children" issue. It's not. Wake up people.

I think that our problems are only beginning here in Pennsylvania. Ed Rendell recently gave the nod to Kathleen McGinty - a rabid enviro wacko and Clintonite - as secretary of the Department Of Environmental Protection. If you own land or use private land in PA, you might want to look into Ms. McGinty. The consummate commie, McGinty, is all about government control of all natural resources and furthering a leftist agenda. She's just one of many ass-clowns running around in our state gub'ment.

Our state agencies have been infiltrated by enviro-nazis and anti-gunners over the last few decades. I could talk until I'm blue in the face about apathy on the part of fellow hunters and gun owners, but it seems to fall on deaf ears and hard heads here in PA. People just shrug their shoulders and pull the lever. I cite Rendell as a prime example. Rendell was elected, in part, due to the gun-owning union monkeys and gun owners who bought his lies about supporting hunters, etc. Rendell is one of the most rabid anti-gunners in the country. He's now governor.

I give a great big GEE THANKS to all of the gun-owning knuckleheads who sold out and made it possible.

It does not surprise me that you're hearing: "well I'm ok in my area". This type of apathy is quite common here.

There is plenty of PRIVATELY HELD wide open spaces left in Beaver county. How many deaths occured in the last 20 years due to negligent hunters using high power centerfire rifles? Again, this is not a "safety" issue - it is, primarily, a government overstepping its bounds to dictate the conditions of PRIVATE LAND OWNERSHIP and use through blanket legislation issue.

Aquavit; very refreshing post ! You will not find any information on the Pa game commision site about this.The zones are a done deal all will have
to send to Harrisburgh for doe tags.I called the Pa commission and they stated there will be a meeting in April and we will no for sure about what zones rifles will be banned,We are told anything east of Rt. 60 will be zoned with Allegheny county no rifles and west of route 60
rifles ok.It seems as usual Butler county will
escape all this.I think because they have Rick
Santorium up there! With the government being the number employer in Beaver county and all the clock
watching gvt.union employees voting Democrat gun
owners don't have a chance.I shoot Trap at a local
club and I'am amazed at who these shooters vote for then they sit around and bitch and complain
when their trap clubs are shut down by the EPA
for lead!My part of Beaver county is all Farmland
this is not a safety issue its about gun control
and political power.

For what it's worth, here in my area in Ontario it's shotguns and muzzle loaders for deer.

For varmints you can use rifles only up to .275 caliber. Further north where the human population is not so dense, it's "anything goes"

Maybe they will do something similar in your area.

FYI, Mike

I would tremble at the thought of someone truly thinking that a shot was safe with a 12guage slug but not a 243 etc.

In my limited experience slugs are THE most richochet prone projectiles that ever left the barrel of a gun (excepting perhaps muzzle loaders balls?)

I doubt any of these counties have the population pressure we have in the UK yet (for the moment) we have the right to decide what is safe and what isn't. I have to pass a lot of deer for safety reasons. I suspect that this is why 'varminting' is a lot less popular here. The places where you can shoot 300yards on flat ground safely are very very few and far between.

Statistically speaking, a hunter is much more likely to be injured during turkey season at ranges under 60 yards (with shotguns) then any time during deer season - so I can't believe safety is a reason. (For those of you who don't deer hunt in PA, they already prohibit auto-loading rifles, and they have this pain-in-the-ass law of no hunting on Sundays! It's still a great place to hunt, though).

Your voice is only as loud as you make it - you must vote, you must be an active member of your local gun/sportsmens clubs and you must be willing to get involved with getting the youths interested in shooting/hunting. It's no secret that hunter numbers are decreasing, and with that we are loosing our ability to influence the politicians.

Brudford - do you have the number of the PA Game Commission that you called? - I'm interested in getting more information.

Obviously I am not Americn,but I would still like to know what part of "Shall Not Be Abridged" do these Horses Backsides not understand? Sorry horses,I get chocked sometimes. derF

Cold Bore , if you have not seen or heard a slug richochet off hard ground , you have not shot many of them . Some of the more solid sabot types are probably worse in this reguard . On the other hand , a high velocity expanding rifle bullet that hits something substantial upsets upon impact , and is not going very far at all .

I have lived all my life in border areas between shotgun and rifle states .(Ia/Ne and Mn/SD) . Same terrain , same population density on either side of the line , and have yet to see any safety difference between the types of weapons . And no proof whatsoever that shotguns with slugs are any safer .

Personally , I feel safer during a rifle season . The nature of shotguns causes alot more indiscriminate shooting than with rifles. I'm willing to bet the ammo ratio per deer harvested is five or six times worse with shotguns ......

[ 03-12-2003, 17:53: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Cold Bore,

I am presuming that everyone shoots into a backstop of some description. At which point the issue becomes not trajectory but how prone to richochet the projectile is. A 30-06 and 150gr soft point is not very likely to skip multiple times, a 12guage slug is. I've seen them do it on large fields prepared for sowing, you see the multiple puff as the slug skips away, it might not go as far as a centrefire richocet but it goes out of sight.

"I grew up in a slug-only area, been hunting with them for about 30 years now. I had my Ithaca Deerslayer drilled & tapped, wearing a scope, years before anyone else in the area".

Same here Cold Bore , except the gun I had tapped was a Winchester pump........

yeah , the slugs have alot of drop , but that doesn't prevent richocets if they hit right.....I have heard and/or seen many bounce and howl off over the horizon .

Recall the old codger last fall that shot a horse out from under a young girl in western Mn ? He was using slugs and the range well over 200 yards........

Like I said , I personally feel safer in a rifle area , and like they say , your milege may vary ........

I don't know how it is in other areas of the country but it may be an approach to the sport issue. Have seen, yearly, people buying a gun, shells, liscense etc. the day before deer season 'cause they're going "huntin'" in the morning. Varmint hunters are very serious about it. Have spoken with many CO's that consider varmint hunters as the safest people in the field despite the potential of the weapons. Recently, unfortunately, varmint hunting seems to have become a 'fad' sport around here. See people buying long-range weapons, they're lucky to get to a 100yd area for a target session then wondering why they can't hit something 400yds away. Especially those that get 223's then get the cheap, surplus FMJ's to fling around the countryside. ~~~ Have had a slug go over my head that was fired from a farm 3/4 of a mile away that bounced off a stone pile, spooky but interesting sound.