I posted a similar question a week ago on Varminthunters.com so excuse the repeat if you monitor both, but I didn't get a good answer.

I am toying with the idea of a .22 caliber for VLD type bullets.My gunsmith who I am butting heads with says the results of terminal impact on coyotes out to 900 yards with a 75 Vmax in unreal. Says the RPMs are like a sci-fi monster drill and leafe two seperate halves. I did like all of the info I retrieved on the 224 TTH (22-6MM), but I think it's too long. I'll have to use a left handed Savage action.

Is there such a thing as the .243 Winchester necked to .224 and if so is it called anything special??? There are too amny dies/reamers. The 22-243 AI 28*, 22-243 AI 40*, whatever the Middlestead is??

None really scare me, but cheaper is a plus, as in dies, who already has a chamber reamer, fire forming is a pain in the balls regardless of the benefits, unless its for the 22-243 AI 40 deg, which just looks too cool. Gun will finishnear 9 lbs, for a mid range walking varminter.

Are any better with shorter barrels??? Like 23-25"??

Do you have a long action? If so, have you looked at the .220 Howell? Basically, a 30-06 (or 270 or 25-06) necked down. A case full of slow powder in the IMR7828 range and lots of downrange power. Barrels should last longer as it is designed to lower pressures and slower burn, so less barrel burning.
If your action is a short action, the .22 Middlestead would be the way to go. As long as you have enough twist to handle the long bullets- say, in the 1-7 range, you should be fine.
If you're butting heads with your gunsmith why not find a new gunsmith? Lots of good ones on this board and many other places that will build just what you want with no BS to contend with.

OK then, name names. My stuff is the easiest. Savage stuff is all interchangeable. I could probably install a new barrel here in my shop, but wouldn't mind someone with a "degree" to do it.

I asked before, what is the Middlestead???

JJ, why doncha try a standard such as the 22-250? That'd eliminate many variables you may have to work thru later. The 22-250 has been doing well at long range in F-Class and with some stoolshooters. Besides, beyond a certain (long) distance, muzzle velocity matters less and less compared to the bullet's BC and resultant ability to retain the velocity it started with.

I shoot the A-Max at 600 from a 1-8" .223 but given the frangiblity of the bullet, I'd be hesitant to push it REALLY fast. I had considered putting together an across-the-course gun in .22-250 with a 1-8" twist a couple years ago but for many reasons, never got around to it.

Pac-Nor in Oregon sells pre-everythinged Savage barrels ready to screw on your action, to simplify matters.

HTH

Redial

I shoot a 22-243 Middlestead (as well as a 22-250). The Middlestead is a step up in performance. It is a 243 case necked down to 22 with a shoulder change to 30 degrees. That's it. Brass is easy to make, and it's an easy caliber to load for. If you want to use the heavy (for caliber) 22 bullets, I would recommend that you use a 1-8 twist barrel to stabilise them. - Dan

If you want the short action, the 223 WSSM, the Middlestead, and the 22/284 are your basic options.

As far as performance, toss a coin, although my experience with the 223 WSSM indicate brass quality may be a problem: about 5% of the necks are cracking upon first firing, indicating annealing problems at the factory --- which does not surprise me, given how much they need to squeeze those babies down after drawing.

You may do well, however, to follow the Howell theory to extend barrel life to a tolerable level with any of them: keep the pressures down. HTH, Dutch.

Two sources for a barrel in .22/.243 or its variations to fit your Savage are Sharp Shooter Supply and E.R. Shaw. Get it with a minimum of a 1-10 twist for the 75 gr bullet. As for a gunsmith, Rich Riley of High Tech Customs, here in Colorado Springs, does a lot of work on my left-hand Savages and Rem 700s. Good Luck!

Jess;

I played with this question too a couple of years ago. I know a very knowledgable gunsmith out of Medford Oregon, who is a real world kind of guy and a straight shooter.

He builds stuff for customers, locally a lot of PacNor Barrels are used since he is just over on the coast in Brookings.

22/250 and up are really barrel burners, the more powder they hold the faster the barrel will wear out from throat erosion.

The gunsmith has one customer from over in the Bend Oregon area, that does a 22/284. When he comes up to pick up his refinished rifle each time he also pays for the replacement barrel he will be needing real soon. Same with the 22/243 Middlestead or whatever it is called.

You really get some diminishing returns after a certain point. I decided myself to just go with a bolt action 223, with a 1 in 8 twist and had the barrel seated long for the 75 grain Hornady V Max and the 80 grain Sierras and Bergers.

I have used this combo on 600 yd competition and the 75 grain bullet doubles the usable range of the 223.

Recently I chronographed a load using 27.5 grains of H380 with a 75 grain Hornady and got readings in the 3250 range with not much deviation. Compared to a 22/250 load with a 70 grain Speer I have loaded for kids to deer hunt with, and the best I can get out of the 22/250 with this bullet weight was 3300.

The 223 is going to give you a long barrel life.
If you check the trajectory charts, much more velocity does not give you much flatter trajectory. The bullet is also designed for 223 cases. If the larger ones do give you more velocity, which I doubt very much more, you need a fast twist to stabilize the bullet. Your bullet will be turning so many RPMs the it can disintegrate in flight.

If I shoot 45 grain bullets out of my 223, with this twist out of the barrel with a muzzle velocity of 3650, even on the hottest and driest days, in bright sunshine you can watch the bullet vaporize about 18 inches at the most out of the barrel. It is fun to watch the first few times, but after that.....

That is my experience on that.

I have a 223 barrel, 223 improved, 22-250 all fast twist and I am in Santa Fe, NM. I could save you some trouble and these barrels are all Savage barrels. Read your private email.