I have been wrestling with this constantly...

The 17 HMR is wildly popular... yet at the same time, ammo prices for it have not come down at all as originally anticipated....

It is pretty much $11.50 to $12.00 a box here locally, and some smaller gun shops, it is $15.00 a box of 50.... that equates to 22 to 30 cents per round....

22 Win Mag shells are starting to follow the same price increases, slowly climbing up each time you seem to go back to get some more...

I have always loved the 22 Win Mag, and really tried to get into the 17 HMR mystic.... but it just hasn't happened....

I am odd man out, if all the HMR brass laying on the ground every time I go out to shoot sage rats.....

However, being a handloader, and a lover of 223s for their flexibility and low costs... I see the 223 as head and shoulders above the Rimfire mags, both in accuracy, flexibility and economy... especially using data for the 221 Fireball in the 223... Playing with Unique and Blue Dot has also made me know that a 223 can shoot circles around a 17 HMR... with heavier bullets that are not as easily effected by the wind...

Plus I have a wide variety of bullets to pick from,. versus the selection of the Rimfire mags....

Don't get me wrong, you have to give the manufacturers credit, as they are really making available, some of the best varmint bullet designs available in 17 HMR and 22 Mag Ammo....

for a none handloader, the RimfireMags may be a great choice.... but as a handloader.. I have tried.. but I am not seeing it...and the 223 looks better all the time.. more flexible, more efficient and more cost effective...

I own 4 17 Rimfires, and all but one are going to be traded off soon.. I am keeping the New England Handirifle.. mainly because it is cheap to shoot being a single shot, as you don't go thru ammo like the others.. and it makes a great truck gun, and is accurate as hell...

The 22 Mags I have ( 3 of those).. I'll probably hold onto.. but they don't see much action.. I use them to hunt grey squirrels in the fall....

I am looking to trade off a Ruger 77/17 for a 17 Rem Fireball... I can handload that to the 17 HMR specs, and even more or down to the 17 Mach 2 specs if desired....

If the 17 HMR's price of ammo had stayed at the price that 22 Mag ammo was.. $6.00 to $7.00 per 50... I really think I would just love the cartridge...

However, I am going to spend my money playing with other varmint wildcats...

The Rimfire mags are great cartridges.. but to feed them, is just too darn expensive if you shoot them very much.....

and besides, I can give up that addiction to red mist!

quote:

However, I am going to spend my money playing with other varmint wildcats...

Is that really going to be economical? How much value do you put on your time?

A company isn't going to load a cartridge, make bullets, make brase, etc. if it isn't making them money. I think the 17 HMR is a great cartridge and $15 a box, in my opinion, isn't bad for an hour or two of entertainment. It would be nice if the price were lower but that isn't going to happen unless the sales volume goes up.

I have a 223,222 22 hornet and 4 17hmrs, I hunt groundhogs in a few fields which have houses just out of the 150 yard safty zone, legally yes i can use my centerfires there and i set up so im not shooting towards homes, but just out of courtesy i use the low noise hmr and anything within 200 yards is dead, I also use them for night time fox hunting. Yeah the ammo is getting a little pricy, along with everything else,but i still think its such a neat little round and i just love shooting it, the only bad thing is all 4 of my hmrs like different brands of ammo. Good luck with that 17 fireball, thats going to be the next caliber i sneak into the house.

quote:

It would be nice if the price were lower but that isn't going to happen unless the sales volume goes up.

That normally makes economic sense....

But not on the 17 HMR...

They sell about all the rifles that hit the shelves in that chambering around here.. and the same thing with the ammo.....

Speer makes all the 17 HMR ammo, and then packages it for the other companies with the bullet that is supplied if it is not a Speer bullet...

And as far as handloading.. some folks look at that as a chore.. I don't...

I'd rather be in the garage handloading over sitting in front of the boobtube.. or rather be rreading a book.. or be here on the forum with you gents!!!!

seafire-
My sentiments on the cartridge pretty much mirror yours. Here in south central TX, there are no small varmints such as prairie dogs or ground squirrels, so its use is extremely limited. Extensive personal field testing indicates it's marginal on 'coons, OK on gray fox out to maybe 100 yards (ONLY with the 20 grain XTP) and out of its league on coyotes, despite some claims to the contrary.

While selling pelts this past January, the fur buyer and I were discussing the cartridge, and he said lots of folks along his route bought into it only to find it was lacking on 'yotes. Then one guy showed up and chimed in, claiming he shot a 300 pound hog at 200 yards through BOTH shoulders with it. Yea right. At 200 yards, the 17 grain V-Max will only penetrate one side of an empty peach can before the bullet gives up the ghost. I didn't want to get into a one-sided debate with the guy and try and explain that simple physics wasn't on his side, so I just smiled and said nothing.

But that aspect of the round -- its lethality and/or lack thereof -- has been rehashed, so I won't get into that again. Yes, it is fun to shoot. But so are tons of other rounds.

And in no shape, form or fashion will the HMR ever replace any of my .22 magnums. HAd I lived in ground squirrel country, my opinion may be different, but as such, the .22 WMR remains the king of the rimfire magnums in this part of the world.

I have owned the 17 HMR, 17 mach2 and 22 mag. and didn't find the terminal performance that much more pronounced, at least to make it worth the additional cost. For ground squirrels and similar sized critters out to 100 yards, I find the venerable 22 LR hard to beat. If I want more, the 223 gets the nod. Lou

I have a lot of lower price primers and bulk bullets purchased several years ago. I am loading Hornet for less than a dime and not much more for the .223, not counting wear and tear on cases, of course.
Using current bulk bullet/primer prices, the .223 is still around 15-20 cents per round, so the .17 HMR and even the .22 Magnum don't appeal to me at all.

seafire and Bobby Tomek, I know both of you from here on the forum and doing business with you folks for awhile. THE 17HMR is the most amazing little piece of ballistic compilation to come down the pike in all my years of messing with this stuff!! Grab a 17HMR off the shelf of your local gunstore. Take it to the range(after putting a QUALITY piece of glass WORTHY of the 17HMR............Simmons 3x9 doesn't fit............NIKON 4.5-14 BUCKMASTER, Simmons Aatec 2.8-10, Leupold VariX II 4-12, Weaver V-16) and test it against the afformentioned 22WRM!! ...........Test it to 200 yards!! The 17HMR(and I'm not saying it is a legitimate all day, everyday, 200 yard round but it sure as hell beats the 22WMR ABOUT ANY DAY!!.......................if not for knock down power, just pure accuracy!! .....that's why I designated the scope choices!! THE 17HMR is deserving of quality glass!! Why?? Because it takes a s...load of the guessing out of the equation if using a 22LR or 22WMR!!
I don't condone body shots on any vermin with any caliber!! But the inherrent accurracy of the 17HMR lets you, THE RIFLEMAN, place shots in head and neck area of said vermin!! I've seen a lot of "crawl offs" from .243 Win, .308 WIN, 30-06, just because the shooter was thinking he was superior and could handle "center of mass" shots!! 2 chamberings which don't fit that category are the 22-250 and 25-06!! Crawl offs from those two are rare!! ...........and if I could only own one rifle(GOD forbid) it would be a 25-06 of some sort!!!!
Too get back to the economics of loading your own................there is SOMETHING to be said for not having to pick up brass and spending hours at the loading bench!! For my own personal use, regarding the .223, If I can buy the WHITEBOX 45 grain HP loadings for 12.99/40 or the FEDERAL 50grHP loadings, 55.00/200.............spend my time on loading meaningful cartrideges!! .............as in .204.............what can your .223 do that the .204 can't???? Inquring minds want to know!! ....................UH-OH!! Stepped in it!! My own accord!! YOU CAN GO TO ANYWHERE and buy .223 stuff!!!! ...............But the .223 was always inferior to the .222MAGNUM!! Argue that from any any point other than ammo accessibilty!! ..........the .222MAGNUM spawned the 6x47 AND THE .204!!! INHERRENT ACCURRACY EVIDENTLY!!!
Seafire, Bring your 22WMR on down here and we'll just have us a round at the bench!! I may be able to convince you yet!! On one or the other!! GHD

AWWWW Charlie,

I know how to keep you quiet...

I am just going to Box up all the calibers I have that I don't like, and send them down to you in Virginia for free...

Then that way, you will tell me that everything I thought about them was right!!! and hope there are a bunch of other neat rifles and calibers that I don't like anymore!!!

That will work, won't it??

I just tell you this sort of stuff, so you can brush up on your typing skills!

Nope, Seafire is going to stick with the 223.. and as far as the 204.. it doesn't impress me much.. because it doesn't give me much that I can't do with my 223s....

however, the 20BR, and the 20/250 AI is interesting me a lot... someone is sending me some of their empty 20/250 AI brass.. and I am debating which Savage I am going to pick up in 204 and rechamber it to 20BR.. or the 20/250 or the AI version...

and I have found some old interesting load data on the 221 Fireball that may be applicable as a basis for working up some loads in the 17 Fireball...

The 22 Mags are going to be kept, strictly because one is going to my son, and the other is a rifle that belonged to a very dear friend, a retired doctor that passed away when he and I were out varmint hunting back in 2003, so it has sentimental value....other than that... I am kinda sour on rimfire mags... I will keep my 22 LR chamberings...but that is about all the rimfires I cam gonna be needing..

and a 25/06??? what will that do for me that my 6mm Rems or my 260 Rems won't do??????

Charlie-

I've always respected your opinion and must admit you do have some very valid points. First of all, good glass is always at the top of my list -- even on a rimfire. I've spoiled myself that way for a number of years now and can't imagine ever going back...

Yes, the HMR has shown precision accuracy for me, and for anyone with the patience and skill to place that little bullet into the cranial cavity of a critter, well...it's obviously lights out at that very moment. And it certainly does take some of the guesswork out of holdover. However, most of my rimfire shooting is done at ranges at which I don't have to think about trajectory all that much.

As to placing that bullet in the head, in my type of hunting, that shot is not always possible and often not a prudent choice, either. In calling situations, I strive for a careful, well-placed shot -- but often it's a shot that's taken quickly (not hurried, though). The first clear path to the vitals is where I want to put my bullet, and that generally means placement through the heart-lung region. If I don't take the shot then, the game's usually over with the pelted predator as the hands-down winner.

There are a couple of calling spots that I've used for years now in which the range simply will never, ever be more than 75-80 yards, and often it's no more than 50-60. Coyotes and the occasional bobcat are the primary target, and under those conditions, the .22 Magnum shines. I did give the little HMR a shot (pardon the pun) at these larger varmints but was absolutely not thrilled with some of the results. The .22 Magnum, in years of use and dozens upon dozens of these animals, has never let me down.

As to accuracy, my .22 Magnums group very well also. I wouldn't keep them otherwise. Given a good trigger and good glass, the ol' WMR can be a surprising performer on the range.

But to my main point: If I lived in an area where I could pursue groundhogs in a terrain that allowed steady, unrushed shots at the critter's head or if I resided in good picket pin country, the HMR would probably serve a different purpose for me and have a more respected place in my arsenal. But here in south central TX, its uses are pretty limited.

Yes, the HMR is a terrific cartridge -- under certain circumstances, that is.

Each rifle round has its limits as to energy and trajtory curve.One can down load centerfire rounds to duplicate cases of less powder capacity. Its fun to try out various rounds and have been luckey in that over the years I have tryed out the 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 17 Remington, 204 Ruger, 22LR, 22WMR, 22 Hornet, 221 Rem, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 220 Swift, and 243 Win on varmints. I got a 17 Fireball a few weeks ago but have not tryed it out yet. Some folks will have a round that they try to justify its use over an other size round, but we live in a large country with various hunting conditions and size of varmints. The short range wood rifles may not be the best for the wide open west. Of all the rifles I have only a few may be the best for your hunting , but for me I know the limits of each rifle and have a lot fof fun shooting them.

TUCK! Well said!!! I love the 17HMR, the varios rndeitions of the .222 boltface and the various renditions of standard .473" boltfaces in varmint rounds!! They all are usefull and the more folks like us use the variations, then we will keep the fire glowing!! Long live the 17HMR, the .204(and other the .20's too) the .224's(all inclusive) the 6's and the quarterbores!! HAVE FUN at the next outing!! "Sending a vermin an airmail invitation home"!!! OR as an aquaintace once put it just after dusting a coyote in Wythe County, VA..................."He just met Jesus"!! GHD

Hey Everyone!

I think this is a pretty good exchange on the topic and everyone has some good valid points; espically the 17 HMR game taking effectivenss and feeding costs.

I've got one of the Savage Heavy Barrel 17 HMR's and after having the trigger smoothed and topping it off with an old Burris 12X scope I had laying about; it's a bunch of fun.

Like pretty much everyone else here figured the price for ammo would drop after all the marketing hype wore off and that just hasn't happened so the price to feed it in comparison to other cartridges remains my one "Fly in the Ointment" for the .17 HMR IMO.

I cannot for the life of me though figure out how Grumulkin can make a box of 50 17HMR's (regardless of the price) last for and hour or two - however many boxes I buy at these (especially here in Europe) inflated prices they seem to go downrange prety quick.

22rf, .22 Hornet, .222 Rem., .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. all get alot of use by me and I can still keep the price of the .22 Hornet, .222 Rem. and .223 Rem. re-manufactured ammo down to a level where it doesn't make such a big dent in the wallet.

My hunting buddy started me on the .22WMR and then the .17HMR. We both have quite a few prairie dog areas to shoot with ranges from 50 yds to waaaaaay out there. The rimfires give us quick cartridge availability without having to spend time reloading them. We already load .22 hornet, .223, .22-250, .243, 6mm-284, and .25-06. Yeah, the cost isn't that great, but its availability is.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, when loading the lighter loads, you then have to re-zero for the full loads later on. We try to keep to one load per rifle so its always ready for those "emergency" trips with minutes notice.

my speal:

quote:

The Gopher [ground squirrel, sage rat, squeaker ] hunting community is
huge. Here is Varmint Al in CA:
http://www.varmintal.com/avarm.htm

With a scope mounted 2" above the barrel and the rifle sighted in so
that the bullets only goes 1" above the line of sight:
1) 17HMR 2550 fps 17 gr bullet 1" below line of sight at 137 yards
2) 17HM2 2010 fps 17 gr bullet 1" below line of sight at 107 yards
3) 22WMR 1875 fps 40 gr bullet 1" below line of sight at 118 yards
4) 22LR 1640 fps 32 gr bullet 1" below line of sight at 99 yards*

*but goes subsonic around 70 yards and looses accuracy

This range is much longer than the 22LR, but costlier.
1) The 17HMR is 22 cents to 25 cents a shot.
2) The 17HM2 is 10 cents to 14 cents a shot.
3) The 22WMR is 12 cents to 14 cents a shot.
4) The 22LR is 4 cents to 10 cents a shot.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx
http://www.grafs.com/ammo/378
http://www.6mmbr.com/Quickload.html

I should have pointed out that I can reload .223 for 8 cents a shot with ballistics that put the rimfires to shame.
The chart would then look like:
22LR 4 cents 99 yards
17H2 10 cents 107 yards
22Mag 12 cents 118 yards
17HMR 22 cents 137 yards
.223 handload 8 cents 195 yards [If you handload 100 rounds per hour, you are making $17/ hour]

I think in terms of ground squirrels, but I have seen my 250 pound hogs slaughtered with 22 mag and 22LR. The 22 mag is more likely to not be deflected by the scull.

I have 22LR, 22Mag, and 17HMR.
I am soon to get a 17M2.

I can recommend this book



http://www.amazon.com/Customize-Ruger-10-James-House/dp/0896893235

Clark,

I had the opportunity to play very briefly with the 17 mach 2 at the range today, in a Contender, with a rifle barrel on it...

interesting little round.. out in Bonanza last week I had the opportunity to see what it could do on sage rats also...

based on price, etc, I am much more impressed with it, than the 17 HMR....

My impression is that the 22LR can deliver huge power, but that ammo is not accurate.

The accurate 22LR ammo is fairly wimpy.

Not so with the 17H2, which has range and accuracy.

I am impressed with the format of the House book on 10/22s showing data for a wide number of variables.

The table or graph format is how to do it.
It would read like my mother in laws letters if it were buried in text.

But I am suspicious that the 17H2 ammo is artificially cheap. 17HMR was 17 cents in 2004. Now it is 22-25 cents. the 17H2 has got to cost just as much to make, and when it sells for 10 cents, someone is dumping.

Getting cheap ammo resonates with my primordial instincts, like food, sex, and hunting

quote:

seafire-
My sentiments on the cartridge pretty much mirror yours.

I agree. I wish you had posted this six months earlier and hopefully I would have read it! I bought a 17HMR for close range PD shooting in Central KS. I've never been there where wind speed was much less than 10mph, and last April I measured a gust of 27mph! Anyway, I bought a 17HMR & while sighting it in/tuning it up with bedding, trigger job, ect. I noticed just a few mph wind really pushed the little bullet around. I ended up getting a Rem 700 .221 FB and just love it! I put up my 17HMR at the local gun shop for two months or so... it didn't sell even though it's in great shape and marked $100 less than a new one. I think it would make a good squirrel gun, but I already have a 10/22 for that.

Since this thread was resurrected from the archives...

Not long ago,in a Sportsman's Warehouse, I saw where the ammo companies are also putting out some 22 Win Mag Ammo with some of the trendy bullets that they are using on the 17 HMR.. I don't remember the manufacturer, just that it was one of the majors... and I also don't remember the bullet type or weight.. but it was polymer tipped...

What I do remember quite clearly was that it was $17.95 for a box of 50....

Like most other shooters I am sure.. I put in back down and walked away....
I am sure it stretched out the range significantly... but at those prices...yeah right....

So 100 rounds cost someone $36.00...

Heck a decent day out shooting sage rats, I can easily go thru 300 rounds of 223.. when I am shooting a rimfire, that number is significantly more...

I took a friend out shooting sage rats for a day.. and he was shooting a 17 M2 and he got off about 350 shots for the day,and he was thrilled, shooting a break open Contender....

I considered that field as a very slow day.....

I was impressed by the 17 Mach 2, and the damage it did on sage rats... and the price was more palatable than the 17 HMR..

I guess you can't blame the manufacturers for making money, if the market will bear it.. I just am not participating...

One thing I have also learned... the 17 HMR rifle sales does seem to have slowed down much.. nor has the ammo sales... but one thing I have noticed around here... the gun shops are not the ones selling the HMR rifles real well...
it is the Mart Dept Stores.... however, the HMR rifles in the gun racks that are used aren't moving hardly at all.. at a local shop I do bbusiness with a lot, I was looking to trade in a Ruger 77/17 HMR with the laminate stock and heavy barrel...they wouldn't take it... I then asked about putting it up on consignment... this is the first time they ever refused consignment, but they did on this one.. this thing only has about 300 rounds if that thru it..

I am sure I can give it away... but I don't sure can't sell it nor either on my Marlins for what they are worth...

the way Ruger jacked up their prices on rimfires... they just don't sell any more here at all! regardless of chambering...

I live in a semi rural area that is infested with ground hogs. I've shot 15 of them in my back yard over the last year. I shot them with a .17HMR. Killed them dead. It's a 93R17 with a cabela's 3-12x40 scope on it. Target knobs but that doesn't matter. Since I sighted it in for a 100 yard zero I haven't touched the knobs. It shoots within 3/8" of LOS for any range I use it for.

So it has it's place. I clean it once a year whether it needs it or not, that way I don't need to take fouling shots. It has had 18 rounds through it so far this year. 3 fouling shots, 15 at ground hogs. The longest shot was 100 yards even. Most were between 50 and 90.

I can get through two years on a box of ammo for it. Works great for what I use it for and doesn't wake up the neighbors.

For out by the barn where the range is longer I have the CZ527 Hornet. Nice report, deadly to 150 yards and beyond. For farmers fields where the shots are out to 400 yards with good backdrop I am tuning up loads for the fast twist .22-250 LRPV.

There are horses for courses.

Fitch

I got a chance to shoot a 22 WMR more than just a couple times for the first time ever the other day. A cheapo Savage (which is a brand I love), and a cheapo Simmons, and I was hitting clay pigeons out to 200 yards prone off a box of clays. I was very impressed with the accuracy, I just held off a bit for wind and I placed them in the center of the clay most of the time. I think if I had one it might see some use, but it was also much louder than 22lr which I feel comfortable up to at least 100 yards, if wind isn't bad.

I can make a 22 WMR into a 200 yd round all day long...

My complaint about rimfires, especially the magnums, is the price of ammo has gotten ridiculous...

That is what makes me wonder if they are worth it...

of course if you are using it for 20 shots a year like Fitch.. well I guess the ammo isn't overly expensive in that case...

but on a leisurely weekend, shooting sage rats, I can go thru 20 boxes of HMR without any trouble at all!.. and at $11.00 plus a box.. that is a lot of cash for rimfire ammo...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I can make a 22 WMR into a 200 yd round all day long...

My complaint about rimfires, especially the magnums, is the price of ammo has gotten ridiculous...

That is what makes me wonder if they are worth it...

of course if you are using it for 20 shots a year like Fitch.. well I guess the ammo isn't overly expensive in that case...

but on a leisurely weekend, shooting sage rats, I can go thru 20 boxes of HMR without any trouble at all!.. and at $11.00 plus a box.. that is a lot of cash for rimfire ammo...

Seafire, I used to feel the same way about the 17HMR and 22Mag.
However lately the situation has changed.

Add up the cost of reloading components (which are absolutely RE-DICK-U-LOUS lately) and IF you factor in your time, AND then factor in the cost of reloading equipment, rimfire magnums aren’t really that bad of a value.
I enjoy reloading, don’t get me wrong, this is really a money vs. time thing.

Do they have the same “bang for the buck?†Probably not.
Centerfires will always rule in red mist for $$ spent. My 6mm will absolutely VAPORIZE varmints.
BUT, and it’s a BIG but, if you want to spend time actually SHOOTING and not reloading, they make sense for some people.
20 X $11. = $220.
I bet it costs at least as much to reload an equivalent amount of .223 ammo, if you factor in ANY amount of time.
I have really rethought my position on the 17HMR for an afternoon of fun.



How much of your time left on this earth does it take to reload 1000 rounds of .223 ammo and how much hard earned $$ does it require?

Seafire, I'm an HMR fan as well, I guess I had one of the first avalible here and have loved it ever since.

You think you have problems with ammo price we pay between £8 & 12 a box, thats up to $25/box. But for the shooting I do its a great tool and frankly I dont even think about the cost. Its just great for rabbit removal, good range, humane, low noise & unlike the 22lr its low ricocet risk.

I dont blaze through 1000 rounds at a time but I certainly do several thousand a year.

Well Nute in your environment it would make sense for Rabbit control...

Flippy...

As far as my time reloading.. I have to admit, reloading is leisure time for me... In the garage by myself..Wife spends too much of her free watching TV, all of those Home and Decorating Shows...

MY son is very responsible, but his free time, he is either reading, playing video games or on the computer recording music etc...

So yeah, reloading is actually enjoyable to me... definitely instead of just watching TV etc...

However, I should admin my statement is that I don't think Rimfires are worth it for shooting sage rats in high volume... but while out deer hunting.. I was thinking it would be a great round for all the squirrels I have been seeing at 100 plus yards..

I've got a CZ 452 in 17HMR, couldn't be happier with the rifle, but the ammo is WAY overpriced. So much that I've been thinkin' about dumping it in favor of a 22 Mag. I can load my 222's for half the price and have way more fun. There's nothing like red mist in the morning! The 17HMR lacks in that regard.

I spent yesterday in a dog town near Fort Yates, ND. The dogs seemed "educated." As the day was quiet, I used my 17 HMR Cooper almost exclusively. Out to about 180 yds, misses were few, and the real advantage was the lack of muzzle blast. Centerfires would have pushed those guys down fast, but the rimfires didn't seem to much bother the critters past 100 yds. That seems to me the real advantage, besides just the convenience. My .204 didn't seem to bother the dogs past 200 yds. That gave me the red mist fix.
The other thing I use the 17 HMR for is gophers in the lawn. I live in rural SD, and we are infested with 13 lined ground squirrels. Challenging targets at 100 yds plus, but makeable shots.
Killing power is marginal on feral cats and skunks, unless you can get a head shot.

You can buy 17 hmr at Cabela's for 9.99-10.99 a box and I have always got mine on sale for less, 7.99- 9.99. I just ordered 5000 rounds of 17m2 for under $200 for ELEY! Yes they are dumping, but at this price let them dump! I will vacuum seal to make them last. I bought a nef and shot it today and it will shoot 5 into less than 1/2 at 50, that is all I have shot it yet. I have a HB Savage HMR that will go 1/2 to 3/4 at 100, windless. I love my .223 and really love my .204 LRPV, but I am really learning to like my M2 at .07 per shot with a 17grain v-max that costs more to buy for just the bullet! FYI, nobody has ever died for having too many guns!

I bought the thumbhole stock Savage in 17HMR for my son Chris, and we are enthralled with the accuracy. Having said that, I should have bought the HM2. Not much practical difference, a ton less money to use.

I'll stick to my centerfires for several reasons, one of which is ammo availability for the rimfires...
I hope it doesn't happen for the sake of the rimfire rifle owners but look what happened when Remington decided to cease production of 5m/m mag ammo.
Reloading has never been a chore for me, call it a labor of love and when you connect on a distant target(critter) well, the satisfaction is....priceless.

Stepchild

How many 5mm mags were sold? How many companies made them? Now how many 17hmr's have been sold? They are still moving quite well with new model guns for the caliber. For the money they are a very accurate gun, that are still cheap for the non handloader to shoot, so I do not see they going away any time soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
How many 5mm mags were sold? How many companies made them? Now how many 17hmr's have been sold? They are still moving quite well with new model guns for the caliber. For the money they are a very accurate gun, that are still cheap for the non handloader to shoot, so I do not see they going away any time soon.

The choice of firearm/caliber is up to the individual, I just stated my preference. I hope rimfire ammo is available forever, to you or anyone else. To add anything else to this thread would be repeating what has already been said.

Stepchild

Anyoen see that Hornady is now going to be offering a 30 grain V Max on their 22 Win Mag ammo line??

I just hope the cost isn't past what they soak the public for, on the 17 HMRs..

Well they said 17 HMR ammo prices would come down to the price of 22 Win Mag.. instead they just raised the cost of 22 Mag ammo to the 17 HMR price ranges...