Just got back from my new ground squirrel spot in WA. I have shot a total of seven different days there and it just keeps getting better. The young ones are showing now and I have been averaging about 50 a day! That's not that good compared to other states but I don't have to go far to get them.

I took my father in law and his gun likes the .17hmr v-max and mine likes the tnt's. I have a cz and he has a marlin. I was told the tnt's were a little more destructive than the v-max's in the .17hmr. I have found this not to be true. After I finish up the 1000 .17hmr tnt's I may give up a little accuracy and switch over to the v-max's for shots under 100 yards. I tried some of my father in laws v-max's and I was hitting just fine out to that range. There is a definite difference between the two. The v-max's seem to be a little more fun. I have some good videos that show the difference. I also have some good footage of live sage rats, roosters, quail... and hawks feeding on the the trail we left behind. It has been a blast!
sidewinder

Sidewinder,

That is about the opposite of what I have seen from actual field testing.

I would say on average, the V-Max bullet expands noticably mroe violently then the TNT on gopher and p. dog size critters.

On larger game the TNT holds together a bit better and penetrates a little better as well.

As far as trajectory goes, the wind will limit both bullets before one can see a real advantage, one over the other. The V-Max, on paper has the best B.C. so it will shoot flatter, but its not a huge margin out to 150 to 200 yards.

From my shooting of the little round here in Montana where the wind always blows, this is a 150 yard gun at most on a typical day. On the calmest days, one could reach out to 200 yards.

For game up to prairie dogs, the V-Max will be more explosive, on heavier game such as chucks, badgers and fox, the TNT will penetrate deeper.

Of course whatever shoots best is the rule of thumb here.

In my book, the 17 Hornet or 17 Ack Imp Hornet will make this round look very silly and are not much more expensive to shoot once brass is purchased.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver, A .17 hornet would really be fun. I've been thinking of a .221 fireball, but I'm pretty wishy washy on what will be my next rifle.
I like the .17hmr ammo cause you have to just go buy it. No choise on that one. Saves time. There is'nt but 3 brands of ammo that I know of, so load testing can be done in one trip to the range. It is expensive though.
There is a good article in the latest varmint hunter on .22 mag vs. .17hmr. I don't have a .22 mag. The ammo is cheaper and the .22mag has its advantages. I should own one or two of them.
Back to the v-max. I thought it strange when I was told that the tnt was going to be more destructive then the v-max. Could be they ment the tnt would perform better on larger varmints like you were saying. The v-max is my favorite bullit for little varmints if that particular gun likes them.
Thanks sidewinder

I've had exactly the same results on gophers.

Last Summer, I shot 94 gophers with my 100rds of TNT and more'n 80 of them made it back down their holes! The ones I examined were unimpressive in their wounds and I heard many TNT's whine off towards who-knows-what after passing thru a rat. Gophers hit similarly with V-Max's are DRT (Dead Right There, for non-cops) with only rare riccochets.

I'd use the TNT's for skunk/coon sized animals but they're too hard for gophers, IMO.

Redial

rediel,
My results were not quite that bad, although you do need to hit the little vermin in the top half with the tnt. There would usually be a small hole going in and a quarter size exit hole. Not too bad. Hit them length ways and they did a good job.
I did have a few ricochets on level ground. That was ok cause the coast was clear. I had no ricochets with the v-max but I have not shot near as many as the tnt. I will be taking v-max's for the closer shots. I could probably stretch it to around 125yds or so on rats. They shoot ok...just not as good as the tnt's in my cz.
sidewinder

When I first read the topic I got ready to respond and then as I read down I discovered that Fiftydriver had already written my response. I shoot a .17 Mach IV and using 20 grainV-Max's and 18.3 grains of VV N133 I can load 100 rounds for $17.80 the .17 HMR I ordered from Mid South cost $8.08 a box by the time it got to my house, so 100 of em cost $16.16. That's $1.64 less. For that buck sixtyfour I go from 17 to 20 grain bullet and from 2,500ish in my CZ HMR (it chronos a little slower than most it seems) to 4,150ish in my Cooper .17 Mach IV. Max range, (conditions permiting) go from 150ish yrds maybe a little better (again Fiftydriver drilled it) to 350 maybe 400ish yrds. A gopher goes from dead at 150 to "shredded big time" at 150. By the way a 25 grain Hornady HP in the Mach IV slows a bit picks up energy shoots farther and will cost "LESS" than a hundred HMRs, I just like the V-Max better( again it's more explosive).

After reading this you probably think I don't care much for the HMR or feel the Mach IV's is a lot better than the .17 Ackley, "WRONG" I love all of em. I don't have a .17 Ackley "YET" but it's at the top of my real soon list along with the .20BR the .17M2 the .204 Ruger (in a CZ). I'm an equal opportunity sub-caliber junky. And the round that changed the entire direction of my 46 year shooting career is the .17HMR. I've wanted something like it ever since my 5MM Remington Mag starved to death back in the 70's.

As to the performance difference between the two HMR rounds, my experience mirrors you all. V-Max's pop a gopher better TNT's look like a better rock chuck bullet. My CZ doesn't seem to care wich of em I feed it, point of impact is to the left of the V-Max's with the TNT's but the groups are real similar. I just wish I could by the 17 grain V-Max to stuff in my other .17's.

I just went to the range with a 17HMR Marlin 17V and a downloaded .223 Ruger #1.

I got the 17 ammo with the gun at 25 cents a shot, but I can see it on the internet for 15 cents plus shipping.

The .223 60 gr bullets were 3 cents + 2 cents moly coating + 10 gr Blue Dot 2.5 cents + small rifle primer 1.5 cents = 9 cents gives 2050 fps 20 kpsi and the same noise as the 17 HMR.

When I push the .223 with 27 gr IMR4895 [cost me 3 cents surplus, but next time 6 cents] I get 3300 fps for 10 cents per shot total cost, lots of noise, and great accuracy.

What does it all mean?
A guy with a .223 does not need a 17HMR or a 22 hornet for quiet shooting if he handloads.