It would seem to me that a great many of you "varmint" hunters are into speede ! If its not doing a "Zillion feet per second" you aint interested

Some times is less more ??

Just been reading an article about a guy shooting Red fox by both day and lamp light. Choice of calibre ?? bullet ?? velocity ??

Well a .308 full length barrrel sound moderator Loaded with 180 gn sp bullet over a small(sub-sonic) charge of N320 giving a near silent shots......... Leading to less noise and more foxes

Yes a trajectory like a rainbow but with practice it can be over come.

Dont know about you but more often than not i call foxes they often come in less than 100 yard, do you you really need a Zillion f.p.s
Food for thought.............

Englander

Good point. For many of us it is a matter of matching the bullet to what we are shooting be it gun wise or critter wise. If critter destruction is what you are after then speed is the way to go so as the increase hydraulic shock. Sometimes you use a lighter bullet to keep it from comming thru like a 50g. bullet out of a 22-250 seems to be the choice for pelt hunting as opposed to useing a 55 or 60. But there are plenty who just love speed regardless of weather it is to an advantage or not as to what they are shooting or more importantly what distance they are shooting. There are plenty of people who shoot 45g bullets out of a 220 swift or 22-250 at anything and everything at all distances and to me that is ridiculous unless you are shooting 100 yards or so. But they do well and that is what they like so who am I to say otherwise so I shoot what I like and in turn they think I am silly for shooting 60's.
Anyway I agree that subsonic heavy bullets are a nice alternitive to fast light ones.
The battle rages on fast light/ heavy slow.

Englander,

I would have to say that there are very few hunters on this board that would go after fox with an ultra high velocity rifle shooting varmint type bullets. That is if they intend to save the pelt for profit anyway.

Here in Montana, fox hunting is common but not extremely popular like coyote hunting is. From what I use and what hunters I know use, you are a bit off base in your opinion on what us speed freaks are using.

I know several hunters that use the 22 Hornet and K-Hornet for calling fox in under 100 yards. This little round is very flat shooting out to 100 yards, has plenty of punch for foxes and is very quiet.

For hunting in open country where shots may be at longer ranges, the 17 Rem is perhaps the best fox gun around, especially with the new 20 gr V-Max. It is laser flat to 300 yards, no recoil, seldom exits fox on broadside shots and still relatively quiet for the performance.

Even a hot loaded 223 will ruin a fine fox pelt not to mention the 22-250 or 220.

I would say the fella in the article you are reading is using that load more for the minimal pelt damage then the low noise, just another way to skin a cat.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Englander: I am a notorious "non-hotrodder" when it comes to my Varmint Rifles. I have about 37 of them now and none of them are knowingly over maximum load in any manual I am aware of. I have had friends that have hurt themselves and their eyes by overloading and loading brass beyond its safe lifetime. None of that for me. That is reason number one. Reason number two for why I like to shoot moderate loads is for barrel life extension and keeping throat erosion to a minimum! Thus maintaining accuracy longer and keeping those ultra expensive trips to the Riflesmith for barrel setback or barrel replacement! Brass lasts longer also.
For example my 17 MachIV loafs along at 3,527 FPS (using the 25 grain Berger MEF)! I am sure I could get at least 250 FPS more out of it but accuracy at that speed is incredible and lethality at that speed has to be seen to be believed! Varmints fall when struck by that bullet at that speed as if they had been electrocuted! Instant cessation of movement!
My 220 Swifts all trundle along at 3,750 FPS (with 55 grain bullets) and some folks I know get 3,950 FPS with the same bullet weight! I am hoping that my 3 current Swifts will avoid the barrel man for many more years!
Speaking of my Varminting friends I would say only about 20% or less could be classified as hotrodders or over book max shooters! I try and council them but I am not sure I have made any headway in bringing them back to just max loads?
Yeah the more I think about all the fellas I have Hunted with and handloaded along side I would say only 10% are always on the flattened and cratered primer side!
I agree with an above poster that a conveniently placed trajectory table and a good Laser Rangefinder definitely makes obsolete any need for squeezing every last FPS out of any cartridge! Remember brass lasts longer with sensible loads also.
Now maybe I did not fully understand your assertion because I do not shy away from high performance cartridges as I have lots of them! Like the 22-250's, 6mm Remington's, 6mm Ackley Improved, Swifts and some 17 Remington's. Used sensibly they are long term safe and retain accuracy long enough to make them good investments.
Load and shoot safe is my motto!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

When I ask around here about what to use for fox, the answer is inevitably a '17' something, or a super light 22 cal bullet (like a berger 35). None are into the "football size exit" of a hot rod, not with today's pelt prices. FWIW, Dutch.

I've found that my all-time favorite load for my .223 is actually a reduced-velocity, "Hornet-duplication" load. Using 11.5 gr of Blue Dot pistol powder, it pushes a 40-gr V-Max at 2700 fps from a 21" barrel. Not blazing speed, but it has no recoil, almost no muzzle blast, is much quiter, barrel doesn't heat up, and I can get 500 reloads per lb of powder so it's cheap as hell! It's still hell on on anything out to 200 yds. I'm with you, it pays to match your load to your situation. I have no need for a max load out of my rifle when most shots are only 100-150 yds, but I still have the option of going up in power for coyote or p-dogs.

Speed Kills - with the right Groove Bullet

I am a "Speed Nut" because I like a flat shooting rifle. Here is my varmint rifle - 22 CHeetah MK 1.





Using 44gr of IMR 4064 and a 52gr bench rest bullet I get 4280 FPS. My best kill to date is 660 yards on a woodchuck. Last summer I killed 98 woodchucks with this rifle - the furthest shot last summer was 550 yards.

Have fun killing those varmints.

Don

[ 05-02-2003, 15:47: Message edited by: Groove Bullets ]