Well varmint season is starting to be seen over the horizon.. I am getting more email requests all of a sudden for load data.. in various calibers besides 223...

However, I also get the usual number of questions from people who haven't tried it, won't ever try it and think those that do, are playing Russian Roulette with their health and safety....

First, I have never received an email from anyone at all in over 4 years now about a problem with Blue Dot in a rifle... but I sure have had a boatload of requests for data, in about any caliber you could think of....it has been safe in my rifle, and safe in other people's rifles evidently.. no one is complaining it has been a problem.. or dangerous..

However, for a short list of WHY I use blue dot in the 223 for sage rats.. and prairie dogs...

1. Economy... 500 rounds to a pound of powder.. this gets more appealing as the cost of shooting goes up..

2. Accuracy... Blue Dot has proven to be one of the most consistently accurate powders of any I have handloaded, in any caliber.. and the chronographed velocities contain the lowest deviation spread that I have seen on ANY powder.

3. Barrel Wear... using a max of 14 grains of Blue Dot in a 223, barrel wear is kept down dramatically... I personally had one rifle that was maintaining accuracy when I traded it that had 15,000 rounds down the barrel.. and the person who got it, put another 2000 rounds down it, and at 17,000 rounds down the barrel, it would still turn in groups that could be covered by a dime at 100 yds...

4. Barrel heat.. in the field when the shooting gets quick and fast, using only 14 grains of powder max, it takes a long time for the barrels to heat up and make accuacy decline... the barrel also cools down much quicker if you let it rest, because it didn't heat up that much in the first place...I have spent an afternoon shooting 500 rounds of 223 ammo loaded with Blue Dot and never had to set the rifle off to the side to cool, because of barrel heat... I did have to take a breather to drink some water, or eat a sandwich.. of give my eyes a rest from scope squint... but not because of barrel heat... 500 rounds in 5 hours, I didn't stop to let the rifle cool down... 3 to 4 shots every 2 minutes and you can shoot all afternoon with Blue Dot in the 223...

4. Barrel Cleaning? even tho I always take a Bore Snake and some oil in the field with me, to clean the barrel when the accuracy goes away... even on 400 and 500 round days, I don't stop to clean the bore with Blue Dot, accuracy just seems to hang in there...

5. Lack of Recoil... with only 14 grains of powder or less, recoil is so low, that you will not loose site picture in your scope.. and you can see your hits thru the scope.. recoil is so low, that it will NOT cycle the bolt on an AR or a Mini 14... being able to see your hits, and lack of recoil are two big features that folks cheer about the 204 Ruger...

6. Noise.. and Scareing the game away... when you are burning 14 grains of powder or less, you have a lot less Kaboom, out of the barrel compared to loads that are burning 24 to 28 grains of powder.. people complain that sage rats and prairie dogs get wise to the shooting because of the noise... well with Blue Dot and 14 grains of that, I am not noticing the varmints only appearing further out... at times they are back up and close enough to my truck ( I shoot off the hood of it most of the time).. that they are a blur in a 4 x 16 scope turned down to 4 power! I have to wack them with a 10/22 and a 1.5 x 4 scope because they are so close... so evidently the noise from the 223 isn't scareing them away and to come up further out....

This is put forth strictly for the 223.. and prairie dogs and sage rats...

however, I am still looking at velocities of 3375 fps with 40 grain bullets, 3800 fps with 30 grain Berger bullets, and 2975 fps with 55 grain Bullets....

so I am getting 22 hornet noise, recoil and barrel heat/wear.. with MVs that are much higher and much more accurate than the averaqe Hornet will give you...

with the rising costs of primers, the primer actually figures higher into the cost per round , than the powder does using Blue Dot...

So all in all I thought I'd put this general notification out and hopefully answer a lot of questions that I get every season on this...

cheers
seafire
Feb 2008..

quote:

recoil is so low, that it will NOT cycle the bolt on an AR or a Mini 14...

That's true - but it yields the tightest groups I've even seen out of a Mini-14!

12.5 gr. of Blue Dot and el-cheapo bulk pack WW 55gr. cannelured bullets will do 1 moa or better all day long.

Now all I have to do is scheme up a way to make it cycle....I'm going to have to start playing with some different gas port bushings.

I have to agree, it is one of my favorite powders for the 223 especially in my Contenders. I can use a rifle scope on the factory 14 inch barrel and not worry about it kissing my eye.

I 2nd everything seafire2 said.Worked so well in my 223 handi rifle that I got another one in 223 with bull barrel,and both will shoot 50gr hornady sxsp,or vmaxs into tiny groups you cover with a dime.Hard to beat really.Thanks for all the info seafire2!!

Seafire2.

How much Blue Dot are you using with the 30 Berger in the 223?

seafire2 i would love to try Bluedot in 223
could you please pm the load data of which you use for all the bullets you have tried in the 223,
many thanks chapster

hi Sseafire you have a old post that gave blue dot/.223 data for many bullets. i found it a few days ago but can,t find it know can you point me in the right way thanks clint

quote:

seafire2 i would love to try Bluedot in 223
could you please pm the load data of which you use for all the bullets you have tried in the 223,
many thanks chapster

Me too please.Thanx

quote:

Originally posted by 221Fireball:
Seafire2.

How much Blue Dot are you using with the 30 Berger in the 223?

Here is the following info on that range report:
this should help you out.. remember to charge a case and then seat the bullet before going onto the next cartridge, that will eliminate the chance of an accidental double charge.. blue dot is bulky tho.. near max charges will not be a problem...

223 Range Report

Powder: Blue Dot

Bullet: Berger 30 grain HP, Varmint

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 VT

Barrel Length: 26 inches

Primer Used: Winchester Small Rifle

Bullet O.A.L. : 15.55 mms

Cartridge O.A.L. : 57.93 mms


10 grs: 2844 fps

11 grs: 3082 fps

12 grs: 3210 fps

13 grs: 3407 fps

14 grs: 3712 fps

15 grs: 3797 fps

15.5 grs: 3814 fps

16 grs: 3873 fps

16.5 grs: 3957 fps.

Accuracy Potential:
Load of 15 grains of Blue Dot, 30 gr Berger, WSR primer:
5 shot group size@ 100 yds: 0.4260 –0.224 bullet diameter = 0.202 group size
Scope: 6.5 x 20 Simmons.. setting at 10 Power.

Personally my max load is 15 grains.. the extra 150 fps between that and 16.5 grains is not much gained..

Again, these are for academic reference only, anyone using these do so at their own risk, as I can not be responsible for other people’s loading techniques.. these proved to be accurate in my firearms…

seafire
feb 2008

quote:

Originally posted by clintsfolly:
hi Sseafire you have a old post that gave blue dot/.223 data for many bullets. i found it a few days ago but can,t find it know can you point me in the right way thanks clint

for those interested

Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps



Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps



Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Author’s Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicappiing velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes’s X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.

Updated Feb 2008

cheers
seafire

Thank you very much Seafire2.

I have been using your Blue Dot data for the 40V-Max with great results. The 14 grain load has been extremely accurate in my Remington LTR. 90% of the shots i take on crows, seagulls and magpies are innside 200 meters so this load is perfect for that.

Pic shows 5 shots with 14 grains Blue Dot - 40 V-Max at 100 meters, 7.4 mm group.


Now i have ordered the 30 Berger from Midway and are going to test that bullet on red fox's, hope is that the bullet stays inside the fox without damaging the pelt.

Many many thanks

Fireball and Chapster...

I was more than my pleasure to be able to help out a couple of our European shooting brethern...

Fireball, the 30 grain Berger will work excellent.. and Chapster, I hope it works out well for you, whatever bullet weights you decide on also...



seafire
oregon/usa

Thanks Seafire!!!!!!!!!!!

To the above Kudos...

My pleasure!

cheers
seafire