Ray,

Faster isn't always the cure all but in the varmint hunting world, if you can keep the accuracy and get as much velocity as safely possible, thats when the red mist really starts to cover some area.

What 87 gr pill are you using? Have had some good luck with the 87 gr TNT from Speer and they are relatively inexpensive.

Good Varminting!!

50

50,
I know that I could go faster but when this load gives me the best out of my gun and I am not streaching brass out alot then it is worth it to me. I have reloaded some of my brass over 10 times with no signs of wear and tear. If someone could post a pic for me I would love to show some of my targets. I understand the hydroshock thing. But when these bullets hit a coyote or groundhog the same should happen to some effect.(atleast in their insides) I am not looking for an explosion with my 223 but when I hit coyotes with the 25/06 I spread a layer of red for about 5 feet.

Ray

I went to the range today and did a little side by side comparision of some 55gr bullets: Nosler BT, sierra spitzer, nosler spitzer(old style). And just for fun sierra 50gr spitzer, 52gr sierra matchking, and 50gr nosler hp(old style). All the bullets were boat tail. I was using my rimington 700VLS with a 1:12 factory barrel that has been rechambered but still a 223. I was using federal bench rest small rifle primers and all bullets were in front of 26gr of win748. First I shot for groups at 100yrds. All were under .5moa. Well what surprised me was that the Matchkings went deeper and hit harder (no doubt they are not made to do damage to anything but paper) than the rest; but all of the spitzers went deeper than the Nosler BT. Also a note of interest, spitzers and the nosler BT did what looked to be the same amount of damage. Both blew apart grapefruits just the same. But when they hit wet news paper the damage started about 2.25-2.5" in with the nosler BT. The spitzer went in about 3" before is was opened up. Both made about the same size permenate wound channel (around 2"). But the spitzers wound channel went deeper, but was smaller towards the end. I would like to know what others have found out about the spitzers. I think that they are just as good or even better at longer ranges than the balsitic tips(esp when you look at the cost). I will be going in the morning to try the same at 200 and 300yrds. I will post what I find out.

And Yes I agree that Matchkings and other match bullets have no purpose in use with hunting animals.

Ray

Well I have had it with balistic tips. Until the cost of them drops to the price of spitzers there is no use of them. I see nothing that the balistic tip does that a spitzer can't. Anyone else see this? I have tested the 25/06 and the 223 and found that the balistic tip only looks better while in the ammo box.

Ray

Ray-Marine: I agree those Noslers are pricey little Devils! And I concur they most often are among the most accurate bullets I test for a new Rifle. I have enjoyed there consistent performance over the years also. I let it boil down to this if there is a bullet that shoots as well as the Noslers and I am familiar with its terminal performance (and happy with that) then I use the other bullet! Just to keep costs down.
In the last few years I have been buying the Ballistic Tips in the bulk packs to save a couple of bucks.
One alternative to the pricey (but accurate and lethal) Ballistic Tips I have found are the Sierra 224 caliber 50 and 55 grain Blitz bullets. These are cheap, very accurate and super performers on Varmints! I have lots of these stored up and depend on them with confidence. I use the 55 gr. Sierra Blitz bullets in two of my Swift Varminters and in one of my 22-250's.
Thanks by the way for the interesting terminal results report!
Oh yeah this also - I used the 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips in my new Remington 700 Sendero (caliber 270 Winchester) last year for taking 3 head of Big Game last season here in Montana. I took a very nice Antelope at long range and 2 Mule Deer at modest ranges with these yellow tipped lovelies and no complaints what so ever with them! I took this 270 Coyote Hunting a couple of times last winter but nothing harvested with fangs with it as yet!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The plastic tipped Blitz Kings have about a 10% better ballistic coefficient than the same weight SBT. I am using them now after half a century of using the conventional lead tipped bullets. I don't shoot all that many of them that the price matters much and I like the looks of them.

In the Swift the 50 gr BK does very well.

VarmintGuy

Totally agree with you on the Sierra Blitz's. I've been shooting them with great success and accuracy since the 60's. If they don't work in a particular rifle I usually can get excellent accuracy with Speer TNT's. Nothing wrong with the premiums. I just don't find that they are better because they cost more.

knobmtn

Ray-Marine,

I believe your testing to be accurate with what I have found but at 100 and even 200, any varmint style bullet(hollow point, soft point or polymer tipped bullet will expand very rapidly and nearly to the same extent as your testing shows.

For the extra money, I will stick with the Ballistic Tips and for even more money I like the Ballistic Silvertips even better. Here are my reasons why.

I have found that all the bullets you list are extremely accurate in accurate rifles, the rifles I build are tested with the ballistic tips simply because I feel they are the most accurate varmint bullet on the market when used in barrels with correct twists.

I have tested and proven to myself and many of my customers how the advantages of the Ballistic tip starts to shine in extreme cases.

First off, the ballistic tips have no velocity cap, at least nothing we can reach with conventional rounds or even the popular big wildcats such as the CHeetah or even 22-284.

Next, at longer ranges, plus 300 yards, they shoot flatter and open faster then any other bullet on the market admittedly the Hornady V-Max and Sierra Blitzkings are pretty close in performance and expansion.

Is the difference worth the extra money, it is to me, may not be to others.

Also, I test my rifles and my customers rifles for extreme accuracy, the most accurate bullet at good varmint velocities gets my vote, no matter the cost of the bullets. If a shooters spends alot of their hard earned money to have me build them a rifle, they seldom want to save pennies on bullets at the sake of accuracy.

I am not saying that the ballistic tips are always the most accurate bullets either for all rifles. I seldom see a factory 22-250 or 220 with a 1-14 twist shoot the 55 gr B. Tips extremely well. Switch to a 50 gr B.Tip and groups usually are cut in half.

I have tested the others and always seem to return to the Nosler bullets.

As for as hunting bigger game up to critters that weight 400 pounds, I feel there is no better bullet on the planet then the correct weight Ballistic Tip or Ballistic Silvertip. The only better option in my mind is the Accubond bullet but selection suffers at the moment.

In standard to light magnum calibers, I feel there is nothing better. I will not use Hornady bullets on big game, witnessed 9 failures on deer size game over the years mainly out of a 7mm STW shooting the 162 gr BTSP Interlock.

When I say failures, 8 of those deer were harvested and most quickly. But four of those eigth were spine hits and none of those fully penetrated teh spine, broke it but did not penetrate through it. I could not believe it my self until I saw the proof, the actual processing of the deer which we did ourself.

The last failure was on a mule deer doe at around 250 yards. She was shot on the shoulder joint and the bullet must have stopped right there.

The reason I know it hit her in the shoulder joint was that we found the head of the upper leg bone on the ground and I spotted the hit with a spotting scope. She ran full tilt on three legs for over two miles until we lost her train.

I use the 140 gr Ballsitic Silvertip in my 7mm Rem Mag loaded to 3375 fps with very good results, usually full penetration so I recommended the hunter try that bullet in his 7mm STW. We worked up a load with a velocity of 3430 fps and he was getting 3/4 moa groups compared to 1 1/4 with the Hornady.

Since that change five years ago, he has had zero problems with penetration on game.

Hard to believe the lighter bullets perform better on game but on deer size game there is no better bullet.

I personally hunt solely with handguns of big game, some very large handguns and some traditional revolvers. For the big single shots there is only one bullet and that is the ballistic tips.

At the lower handgun velocities, they perform more like partitions then ballistic tips, plus they expand out well past 400 yards where a conventional SP would not expand much at all.

All in all, the little extra they cost is well worth it in my mind but to each their own. There are alot of good bullets out there to pick from. Great sport we have isn't it.

When testing loads for customers, I try the Ballistic Tips first and usually get extremely tight groups within a couple loads, this saves me time and my customers money in load testing. I am sure it has more to do with accurate rifles built correctly then anything because if a rifle is put together the right way, they tend to shoot most bullets VERY well.

Just my thoughts on the matter, my money will go to the Nosler folks.

Good Shooting!!!

50

I am with you all when it comes to accuracy in the varmint bullets. My groups (10 shots) does incerace by less than a quarter of an inch when I am not using nosler bullets. But when I smack a coyote at 200+ yrds with my 223 the wound channel inside of him is a little bigger than 1-3/4". I think as long as it is grouping smaller than 1-1/2" at 300yrds the bullet is good enough for me. I took some extream shoots at over 500yrds on some soda bottels. Did not have any trouble with the lead tipped bullets; and the nosler bullets did not show any different down range preformance.

Ray

I forgot to add what the velocities were.

223:
52gr match bullets avg 3372fps
55gr spitzers avg 3265fps
55gr nosler avg 3271fps
all loads were with cci bench rest small rifle match primers and 26gr of win748 and winchester brass.
Rifle was a rem 700VLS that has been accurized with a 1:12 twist. Leupold 4-12x40 vxii glass on top

25/06:
100gr nosler avg 3050fps
100gr spitzer avg 3042fps
100gr corlock avg 3046fps
loads:
50.5gr of IMR4350 federal match large rifle primer with winchester brass

85gr nosler avg 3290fps
87gr spitzer avg 3165fps
loads:
51.5gr of IMR4350 rest is same as above.
Rifle:
Ruger 77 tang safty 1:10 twist tasco 6-18x40 glass on top.

Ray

Ray,

To be honest with you, any bullet traveling at super sonic speeds will make a soda bottle pop dramatically if it is, I assume filled with water.

It is the displacement of the water by hydrostatic shock waves that burst the bottle not really the bullet to that great of an extent.

I use a fast twist 6mm-284 for extreme range shooting(out to 1300 yards. At +1000 yards the 107 gr Matchkings pop one gallon milk jugs impressively even though the bullet expand very little.

Also, why are you using the same load with all three bullets. The 223 will easily drive any 55 gr bullet well over 3300 fps with a 24" barrel or longer, may just take a little more powder with the B. Tip to get up to pressure.

I also must ask why you are shooting such an anemic load out of your 25-06. With the 100 gr Ballistic Tip, 3300 fps is a snap and most will easily hit 3400 fps. My favorite 25-06 load is 57.0 gr Rl-22 with a CCI-200 primer in Win cases. I do coat my bullets with moly by impact embedding and get a velocity of 3450 fps.

With non coated bullets I get 3400 fps with 56.0 gr Rl-22.

I would say you need to get that round up into better pressure ranges, at least I would.

Good Shooting!!!

50