Has anyone had any experience with the WSSM .223 cartridge.

I was looking around for a new rifle and cartridge and saw the ballistics data for this cartridge... it is HOT!

From a
40 grain bullet at 4350
50 grain at 4050
55 grain at 3880
75 grain at 3350
This loading data is from the Hodgdon web site.

The only down side I can see is the magazine capacity. The Winchester Mod 70 Coyote only holds 3 rounds in the mag. Same rifle in 22-250 holds 5. These must be real fat cases.

With the little 40gr bullet, I bet it would make some serious flying carpets out of Pdogs.

Bill give it a try. The magazine capacity issue is not one when you're hunting colony varmints. I habitually load only one round in the magazine to make me slow down. When the action gets hot and heavy the problem is shooting too fast and burning the barrel up, not shooting too slowly.

It's hot, but that's the problem. I can't imagine taking 300 shots with my 223WSSM. It gets hot pretty quick, so quick that load development seems to take forever.

For the occasional extreme distance shot it is great, but for bulk shooting, forget it. Even the 22-250 is too hot for PD shooting. JMO, Dutch.

I really like my M70 Coyote in .223 WSSM. It works great on ground squirrels out to as far as I can hit them. The .223 WSSM will do anything that any .220 Swift, .22-250 or .223 Remington will do just at a faster velocity. Don't worry about the magazine capacity. It always takes a few moments between shots for the squirrels to stick their heads back up anyway which gives me plenty of time to reload the magazine and let the barrel cool down. Oh, and forget those rumors about the WSSM cartridges being barrel burners. Falsehood. I have over 800 rounds thru mine with no signs of throat erosion. Lawdog

I use my 22-250 on PDogs, but it is loaded down to just above .223. I have some loaded up for distance shots. Point of impact doesn't change much (out to 200 yards)on my rifle between loads so I can get away with it.

I have several rifles in the workhorse PDog calibers. I was really looking for something to fill in with and take some long and spectacular shots with. To date the big boomer
in the group I go with is an 22-250 AI. But even that doesn't stack up against what the manuals are showing for the .223 WSSM.

I haven't seen anything in these pages about the WSSM so I was wondering if it was catching.

What's brass prices like?

Hey Dutch.... what kind of rifle are you shooting the .223 WSSM in?

Bill, I shoot a Savage with a 9 twist, three groove stainless Pac-nor, under a 6x24 Sightron.

It really shoots, but like I said, could not imagine using it to shoot PD's with it all day. Like Gary, I can't find any evidence of throat erosion, but I don't have as many rounds down the pipe as he does.

I shoot mine primarily at 300 to 600 yards on spooky varmints on the farm. With 75 Amaxes or 80 gr. Noslers, the wind drift is half that of the lighter bullets, and the extreme spreads in velocity you have to see to believe. In one session, using Magnum, I shot a five shot string with an ES of THREE fps. No kidding. Lots of strings with ES under 15. Accuracy is easily half MOA out to 300 yards.

I really love it for what I set it up for, but I would not recommend it for any kind of high volume shooting. FWIW, Dutch.

Dutch: I guess I have to consider myself as one of the folks that was initially very interested in this cartridge then was spooked by some of the "pre-deployment rumors"! I am happy yours is doing so well!

Rumors! I sometimes wonder how and why a particular rumor gets rolling. I appreciate your info on the 223 WSSM.

Also I used a 4X16 Sightron in the Ground Squirrel fields last year and was impressed with it. It belongs to a friend and I hope to use it some more this spring.

Now for a question of you regarding your .5 MOA accuracy out to 300 yards with this Rifle. Am I misunderstanding your statement or are you mis-stating what you want to say. It is my understanding that a Rifle if capable of .5 MOA at 100 yards or at 300 yards then it is also capable of .5 MOA at 1,000 yards! Are you saying you can shoot .5 MOA at 300 but at 400 yards the Rifle no longer is capable of .5 MOA? Now we all know that the longer the range to an intended target the more time external forces have to work on a flying bullet (external forces being, gravity, wind, air resistance, mirage etc etc etc). Therefore my understanding is if a Rifle is capable of accuracy measured in MOA at one range then it is capable of that MOA measuring of accuracy at all ranges - similar external conditions still prevailing! I on occassion see folks refer in the manner you have about having a Rifle capable of such and such MOA accuracy at such and such range. This perplexes me as my understanding of MOA measurements of accuracy dictates that what ever the range the MOA accuracy measurement should be the same. Or if the Rifle is capable of that MOA at one range then it stands to reason that THE RIFLE not the Rifle and whatever conditions may or may not work on the bullet at such and such range is not changing - its the conditions that change! In other words when I test a Rifle/load at 100 yards under good conditions then I expect it to shoot equally well (MOA wise) when I shoot it at 200 yards or 300 yards or 600 yards. Do you follow me? Am I misunderstanding what you want to say about your Rifles accuracy at 300 yards and closer? Or beyond 300 yards?

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment!

Hold into the wind

VarmintGuy

Varmintguy, I understand what you are saying, but there are some things that start coming in between 300 and 600 yards, that you just don't see at 100. I'll try and be brief (I'm not noted for that.....)

First, you are right, in a perfect world, a bullet that is .5 moa stays .5 moa throughout it's effective range, essentially until it starts dropping through the sound barrier. My world, however, is not perfect.

Some of the imperfections are external to the system, the biggie being WIND. For example, a 10 mph wind will push a bullet about .6 MOA at 100, about 1.2 MOA at 200, and about 2.5 MOA at 300.... and so on. Rough numbers, but you see what is going on: the same amount of wind changes the movement on target geometrically, rather than linearly.

Secondly, at about 300 yards, shot to shot velocity variations and variations in bullet shape start to show up, although just barely. Bullets vary in shape, weight and therefore their flight characteristics change. A variation in B.C. of .1 in a batch of bulk bullets WILL start showing up at 300. Add to that the random variation of velocity, shot to shot, and you start, again just barely, seeing additional vertical dispersion due to both the flight characteristics of the bullet and the variations in speed.

So, at longer ranges, you have both increased horizontal dispersion as well as increased vertical dispersion, in terms of MOA. Loading for long range just adds another dimension (extreme spreads) to an already challenging hobby.

Just for grins, some guys took the WSSM case, blew it out to a 40 degree shoulder and necked it up to 6.5 mm for 1,000 yard rig. The preliminary numbers are just amazing: these boys are shooting close to .5 MOA at 1,000! FWIW, Dutch.

Bill,

Unless you have a hole that needs filling in your gun cabinet or behind the seat in the pickup, why overlook your 22/250 namesake?

if you are impressed with 4350 out of a 223WSSM with a 40 grain bullet, then just drag out your old 22/250, Load up some brass with 34.5 grains of RL 7 with the 40 grain bullet of your choice and get out the chronograph.

Use a standard large rifle primer and you might be happy to find out that the velocity with this load in your 22/250 with a 24 inch barrel should be about 4450. That is a 100 fps faster than the WSSM, and about at the same pressures, in a case that has been around for a long time.

To me a 223 WSSM is just the short fat wannabe brother of the 22/250 in a different suit of clothes. I am sure it is a good cartridge., but it doesn't offer me anything that something else available and proven for a long time is already giving me.

Good luck which ever route you take tho. and good shooting with it!
Cheers,
Seafire

Seafire,

Quote:

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if you are impressed with 4350 out of a 223WSSM with a 40 grain bullet, then just drag out your old 22/250, Load up some brass with 34.5 grains of RL 7 with the 40 grain bullet of your choice and get out the chronograph.

Use a standard large rifle primer and you might be happy to find out that the velocity with this load in your 22/250 with a 24 inch barrel should be about 4450. That is a 100 fps faster than the WSSM, and about at the same pressures, in a case that has been around for a long time.

---

Not bad at all but it is very near max for the .22-250(according to my books). Now take a charge of 45.2 gr. IMR-4064 for 4,651 fps. with a 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and that makes the .223 WSSM over 200 fps. faster than the .22-250 and it is showing no signs of pressure. I don’t use this load but it was fun to see what the .223 WSSM would do. Just wanted to keep the books straight. The new King of the factory .22 centerfires is the .223 WSSM. Also it's accuracy potential is even better. Lawdog

I know Gary and I are biased, but let me throw in this little bit of perspective:

With standard bullets, if I run my WSSM at 22-250 (max)velocities, I don't have to resize the case...... The necks don't even expand.

Now, if you like trimming cases, by all means, buy the 22-250. It's one of my least favorite chores, so I made another choice. FWIW, Dutch.

LawDog,

If anyone else told me that the new 223 WSSM is the new king of 22 calibers, I would say he is full of .....

However, you are another guy who I enjoy reading your posts, and know you know what you are talking about.

See opinions can differ and still admiration of a fellow shooter doesn't change.

Actually max on the 22/250 with RL 7 was at 36.5 grains at 4750 fps, but then brass life was good for about two shots.

Also when you start paying attention to the trajectory charts, the difference in the 200 fps is still not much trajectory difference if at all.

I just think if you and I got to share a varmint field, You with your WSSM and me with my 22/250, the real argument wouuld be with the ground squirrels fighting it over for cover.

Some of us like new stuff and some of us just like tradition.

Cheers and good shooting.
Seafire

Dutch,

I had this conversation today with a guy who owns one of the local gun shops? How often am I suppose to be trimming my 22/250 dies?

I always hear that they need trimming, but I full length resize each time and I have NEVER had to trim 22/250 brass.

Instead of always thinking I was lucky, I was wondering if I was doing something wrong?

All I can figure is that I use Faster Powders, and it does not seem to require trimming or at least if full lengthed resized.

Enlighten me on this one? am I living right, or just dam foolishly lucky???

Maybe that is why I don't have the complaints that others have with the 22/250 ( and no mine is not an Ackley)

Cheers,
Seafire

Seafire, trimming is the one thing that the guys around here complain about. Of course, each and everyone of them thinks their gun is the magic wand that can "do better" than factory velocities.

One of them trims at least every other firing on a case. I have a 223rem load like that (from the VVmanual), and it's enough to drive me to drink..... FWIW, Dutch.

Seafire

With me, it was more of a empty place in the cabinet. There aren't too many cartridges that I don't like. Each one has it's strengths and weaknesses. I have a custom built 22-250 that really shoots. I can't say anything bad about the 22-250. It is easy to load, accurate. Good punch. I had read that the .223 WSSM was a barrel burner and I was wondering what folks were experiencing. I was told the same thing about my 22-250 before I bought it. Sounds like the WSSM is a pretty awesome cartridge. I was looking at the Winchester Coyote in .223 WSSM at first, but after Dutch's response, I am looking more to a Savage. I already own one Savage Mod 12 in .223. Looks aside, it has performed beyond my expectations. It is the most accurate rifle in my collection so far. Sounds like the big .22 centerfires all have the same thing in common, they aren't much for all day shootin' Pdogs. Good discussion!