I just picked up my new Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 Remington. (great deal at the local GI Joe's, $469 plus tax, including free Leupold rings and bases, also has a $30 mail in rebate available from Remington) My question is which is the better cheap varmint capable ammo? According to Remington my new rifle has a 1 in 12" twist and a 26" barrel. Old posts used to tout the Winchester USA 45 gr HP ammo as being cheap but accurate and was rated at 3600 fps. I don't think Winchester is making it anymore, or all their production is dedicated to overseas shipments to Iraq. Both the GI Joes and local Sportsmen's Warehouse have the bulk Federal 50 gr HP ammo and the Remington UMC 45 gr JHP or 50 gr HP for about $74 for a box of 200 rounds. Any experience with this ammo? Accuracy, Velocity? I will eventually be reloading for it, but don't have my dies yet. Am hoping the factory ammo will be accurate enough (and explosive enough) for ground squirrels next month. Also have to get my scope ordered, am leaning toward a Weaver Grand Slam 6x20 silver finish (would prefer matte finish, but can get for $250 on clearance). Any comments?

Unfortunately, no one can say what will work best in your particular rifle as each is a rule unto itself. But most who have tried it do swear by the WW white box ammo, which is still in stock at most outlets (esp. Wal-Mart).

The Grand Slam is a nice scope. You may want to check out the Nikon Monarchs as well. The current line is being upgraded, and many dealers are marking down the current inventory and offering pretty substantial savings.

I realize that each rifle is unique, I was just hoping that someone with a similar rifle had tried some and could relate their experience. Most places around here only sell the cheap ammo in the 200 round boxes and I would hate to spend $80 on something that others had tried and were unhappy with. I have had no luck finding the winchester stuff online, and sadly, my local walmart has just eliminated the rifles it used to sell. I don't think they have any of the Winchester white box ammo in stock, either. Thanks for the reply, though.

The Winchester white box is about the most accurate factory ammo out of my CZ 521. I can sometimes get a 50 grain spsx hornady reload to do better.

quote:

Originally posted by 2ndtimer: Old posts used to tout the Winchester USA 45 gr HP ammo as being cheap but accurate and was rated at 3600 fps.

It is still being sold: for one Natchez at $22.03 for 50 rounds. roger

AmmoMan .com I think he has free shipping.

"$22.03 for 50 rounds" Yikes, that price for W-W "white box" 45hp's sure ain't the bargain it used to be. It has disappeared from the local Academy and WalMart stores.
The Rem 45 and 50gr ammo was available from Natchez for a reasonable price (dependent on their freight/handling). One 223 I don't reload for actually did poorly with the W-W 45's, but shoots the UMC stuff quite well. But it will probably see reloads once current stock is gone; too many price hikes of late...
Have you checked Black Hills for their pricing?

Screw all that Winchester and Remington stuff...

you want accurate, and economic ammo in 223???

Load up on Black Hills Ammo.. it is around, and has quite a few different bullets loaded and available...

their QC beats whoever loads Winchester's and Remingtons, all to hell...

When on disects most of this stuff, they are using some sort of powder close to the burn rate of H 335.. usually 25 grains with each cartridge, regardless of bullet weight under 60 grains...

Black Hills is also sold in cartons of 50...instead of 20 or 40...

A lot of guys claim that the 55grain FMJ Rem is very accurate, but the FMJ is not a responsible bullet to use in shooting gophers, due to the riccochet factors....

Good luck with the new Gal tho...hope she gives ya a good season...

cheers
seafire

I was at the Sportsman's Warehouse here in Memphrica today and they had the white box winchester ammo for $10.99 per 50 rounds. That $22.03 must be Kalifornea price

quote:

Originally posted by molar1:
I was at the Sportsman's Warehouse here in Memphrica today and they had the white box winchester ammo for $10.99 per 50 rounds. That $22.03 must be Kalifornea price

If they still have it there, you might want to stock up. Every where I have checked is out of stock and no backorders being accepted. (Including Natchez, Bartsche) Course, if it is $22.03 for a box of 50, that is a might steep.
I guess I will just try the Remington. That way I will have 200 once fired cases, once it is used up. It appears that even .223 brass is hard to come by.

W-W white box I have shot was 46 gr? As I recall? Prices are up and supplys down.
Its that war thing I think?
Bet she going to be a good one. Have fun

quote:

Originally posted by gregg:
W-W white box I have shot was 46 gr? As I recall? Prices are up and supplys down.
Its that war thing I think?:

I think you are right and if it's up to George it ain't going to get any better.

I've tried a number of .223 Black Hills ammo both in the blue boxes and some of the red boxes. Some of it shoots good (repeatability) and some not really great. You pay your money and take your chance. roger

I thought the WW white box ammo was 40 rounds to the box?
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure I have a box of it on the shelf in 45 grain bullets that is 40 to the box. I tried WW white box, Ultramax, and Black Hills in an accuracy test in my .223 and the Ultra Max and white box took a close second to the Black Hills, however I recently tried a box of 60 Nosler Partitions in the Ultramax that was very accurate although not a great ground squirrel bullet.
Try a box of everything you can think of and see what shoots in your gun.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I found some Federal American Eagle 50 gr HP ammo today at a kind of out of the way old school department store for just $6.99 a box. Bought 4 boxes to see how it shoots, if it shoots good, I will go back for the rest they have on hand. Hopefully it will shoot good.....

quote:

Originally posted by gregg:
W-W white box I have shot was 46 gr? As I recall? Prices are up and supplys down.
Its that war thing I think?
Bet she going to be a good one. Have fun

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrlist.aspx?bn=4&type=42
I was wrong. I thought for the life of me the white box stuff was a 46 gr. Link above showes 45 gr.

Know of any decent buys on quantities of 55gr bullets anywhere??

Discovered my coffee can is getting down to about an inch left of them.

Loaded 800 rnds the last two days. Gotta get ready for the p/doggin soon as the snow melts off enough they come out.

George

George, try midsouth shooters supply. The have bulk packaged .224 55 gr varmint nightmare bullets. I haven't gotten around to trying them, but I believe Bartsche uses them with good results.

quote:

Originally posted by molar1:
George, try midsouth shooters supply. The have bulk packaged .224 55 gr varmint nightmare bullets. I haven't gotten around to trying them, but I believe Bartsche uses them with good results.

roger

I was checking out the Sportsman's Guide web site last night.. and they have tons of Black Hills ammo in all sorts of bullet combinations available.... in 223 caliber...prices are comparable or less than a couple of discount shops around here...

They have them available in lots of 1000 or more...

I just went to the Sportsmans Guide site and was unable to find any Black hills ammo. Not in any caliber. They have a lot of the Ultramax ammo. I am also having a hard time finding any locally. I am sure it is out there.

Try Pats Reloading in Massillon Ohio. Can get a 1000 rounds of soft point 223 ammo for under $200, if I recall right. I got a can (big 50 caliber can full), last year to take Pdog hunting (guy came into town to visit when I was going to leave, then left "for a day or so" and never came back, so tied me up and I didn't get to go). Pat's webb site is www.patsreloading.com

try'em you'll like em. Have bought stuff off them at Camp Perry and this ammo shipped to me.

Hi there 2ndtimer
Just a word from the wise about that American Eagle ammo, I used it in my Tikka 223 it worked OK, but on paper I would find that once and a while I would have a flyer???
To cut a long story short a friend of mine started reloading for me using my 800+ AE brass what he found was the flash hole on some of the cases went off to the side of the primer pocket!! Why I had some flyers I dont know!!! But what he later did was even more alarming, I had a 200 pack which he got off me and started opening random packets taking out the prods and weighing the powder from each case, we quickly discovered why I had the odd flyer, the powder measure could vary by 6grs BTW I dont know what the factory measurement is but for arguments sake lets say it around 20grs some could be 17grs and the next one could be 23gr.
So with that in mind "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR "
Out of the 800 we chucked about 200 with the flash hole off to the side, and reloaded the rest, with great results.
My suggestion is, use them for running in your barrel and shooting in the field up to 200 yrds at a BIG push(try closing ya eyes )But get into relaoding ASAP, you will get much more satisfaction out of your new rifle and it will take out some of the WHAT THE F#$#@ out of it.
All the best with it
Regards RUNAS

Thanks for the reply, Runas. I did buy a bunch of the Federal American Eagle 50 gr HP (400 rounds), and it works okay, groups around an inch at 100 yards for 5 shots. All the cases I have looked at so far are LC 05 brass, and all the primer holes have been reasonably centered. Haven't encountered any problems depriming them. Loaded up 20 of them with Accurate 2015 (23.5 up to 25.0 gr of powder with Nosler 50 gr Bal. Tip) and they shot okay, averaging about an inch. Were your cases with the bad flashholes FC or LC? The LC brass in the past has worked just fine in my old .223 Savage, and I would expect it to work just as well in my new Remington.
Oh, and I have been into reloading for the past 25 years or so, give or take. I was just trying to save a little time with the cheap .223 ammo. I can remember when the old Winchester USA 55 gr FMJ .223 ammo could be had for just $2.99 a box up at the White Elephant store in Spokane, WA. Times change, I was happy to grab these 20 boxes of Federal American Eagle for $6.99 each. At least they have the 50 gr hollow point bullet. Can't wait to see how they work on ground squirrels. If I don't like their performance, I can just use some handloaded 50 gr Ballistic Tips or the 55 gr Hornady SX at around 3150 fps. So far the Hornadies have seemed to be a little more accurate in my rifle.

In three accurate varmint rifles and one light sporter all in .223 the best groups at 100 yds. using the Ameican Eagle ammo was between 1 1/2" and 2 ", most wer closer to 3". The lake city cases were just fine. roger

The brass was FC stamped it was in the bulk pack 200 rnds and the primers were crimped so to reuse them that had to be chamfered off but once that was done they've been great but I have been getting some spilts in the neck every once and a while so they may get retired very soon( AFTER 10 RELOADS) so I think they have done well.
I too use the Nosler 50gr BT with 26.5 gr ADI 2206H a great combo for my rifle a suppresed Tikka T3, I have shot rabbits to goats with it up to 300 yrds and still get amazed at how much damage they do.
I shot a good size billy goat on the weekend give or take 200 yrds in the neck and the bullet exited, took out a vertabre, what a mess
Good luck with the ground squirrels.
BTW "BARTSCHE" I agree 100% They anit the best!!

Regards Runas