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| One of Us |
When fireforming a case (6mm AI) is the accuracy good enough to use on prarie dogs or do you just have to waste ammo until you get enough brass? | ||
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I have loaded up 350 fireforming loads that average under 1MOA for my 244 AI for this years PD shooting. ****************************************************************** SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM *********** | |||
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On my last Pdog hunt I fireformed 300 .243 AI cases and found the rifle to perform splendidly in the field. I knew in advance that the load shot well on paper, and would suggest you work up a fireforming load with fieldable asperations. Works for me, and it is the single most fun way to fireform!  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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That depends on how accurate your forming loads are, how far away the pds are, and the "success rate" you want.  Jim Please be an ethical PD hunter, always practice shoot and release!! Praying for all the brave souls standing in harms way. | |||
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I use 17AH and 19 Calhoon in the fireforming phase for PD's. Both shoot in the 1MOA range and work well. At the current price for bullets I can't see wasting them. Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction. | |||
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Bmash, When I got my 22/243 Midlested built I got the orginal unfired 1-14 twist chambered for with the same reamer as the 1-8 Lilja strictly as a fireforming barrel.Both barrels are head spaced the same. You can probably guess it from here. The fireforming barrel keeps 5 of the fireforming loads under 1/2", and the Lilja is gathering dust. A guy I know was fireforming loads for his new F class rifle. It is a slightly modified .338 Swamp Donkey and he was using Hornady Interlocks just because he had them. Bill knows a good thing when he stumbles on it, and ended up shooting and winning a match with the fireforming loads Hornadys and all. Don't rule out your forming loads being useful, but don't bet on it either. | |||
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Dogleg is spot on. Cut the max load for the parent case back about a grain and work a few up to max for the parent. Good comapnets and a powder the gun likes your F/F loads will shoot as good maybe better. My 338-06AI and my 280AI both shoot F/F loads just over 1/2 MOA. POI is less than an inch off at a 100 | |||
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I load .17 Ackley Hornet and other than a slightly lower point of impact there is almost no difference in accuracy. Problem I had is that the Hornet brass seems to age harden after forming and neck crack while sitting around loaded ready to fire. This is even when annealed prior to forming. I have found the sooner I fireform the better as once fireformed they dont crack at all. With 6mmAI I dont think you will have the same problem. Just sight in with your fire forming loads and when thay are all fired re-sight with the full bore loads to correct POI. | |||
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| One of Us |
In fireforming 257 Roberts Ackley Improved, I get lousy accuracy [2.5 moa] on the forming shot. But if I partially form with 10 gr pistol powder covered with Cream of Wheat, then I load the next round with a regular Ackley load, and I get perfect accuracy [.8 moa] on the shot that does the second half of the forming. | |||
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Why not do it correctly the first time? Proper headspace is established(or should be)on the 1st firing. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Thanks everybody! I have a 218 mashburn bee and the fireforming has not been very good. (About 1.75"@100)After fireforming groups have been well under 1". (all 5 shot groups out of a Cooper model 38.) | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't have proper headspace. It is the classic Ackley boner. I cut my 257 Roberts Ackley chamber in 2003 and used regular 257 Roberts brass for a go gauge. That was a mistake. The firing pin compresses the brass .004" at the base of the neck in the Ackley, but not in the regular Roberts. I didn't know. No one told me. It's not my fault  I have tried many ways to fire form brass without pulling the barrel and cutting more off the breech and shoulder. I have documented those experiments, but I will not cut and paste them here, because it goes on forever. The problem is that the brass will separate just behind the shoulder if I fire form in one step. So I fire form in two steps. The first can be Creame of Wheat and 10 gr of any pistol powder. It works for me. All the other rifles we made with that 257RAI reamer since then have .004" shorter chambers. | |||
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tnekkcc Have you tried necking UP to a larger calibre, say 270 or 7mm or starting with say, 7x 57 brass. Then neck down to .257 but back off your dies so you form a second smaller shoulder that is in the exactly correct place to headspace on for your particular chamber before first fire forming? If the brass survives this ok you can then reset your dies and keep loading in the normal manner. Or have you tried this and it didnt work? | |||
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Vince: That's a bright suggestion. Thanksfor posting it. seems like I was told that yrs ago but, never tried it. Will be breaking in two before the summer is over with any luck. I shall try that trick IF I run into problems too. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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I used this method to custom fire form shells for a chamber in an old mauser that was hopelessly over spec re headspace. I just set up dies to work on formed case and after that it was like loading anything. Also used for 8mm-06. Neck expanded .30-06 to about 35 calibre and went from there. I forgot to mention that I do this with a normal bullet and what is basically a starting load of normal powder. Other thing I have found is after forming a case in dies it pays to fireform as soon as possible as I found the brass age hardens as well as work hardens but seems ok once fireformed. This is even after annealing before die forming. This last comment is in relation to .17 Ackley Hornet with which I have many years and thousands of shots of experience with. | |||
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I have done that, but not in that gun. That 257RAI shoot so well, I am afraid now to change any of my rituals. | |||
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 Even the bat's wing and eye of newt?  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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OK Roger, I necked five pieces of 8mm down to 7mm and then down to 257 all .025" long. Then I sized with 257 Ackley dies. What a hassle. Next I upped five more pieces of 257 to 6.5 and then sized with 257AI. I will see if there is another way. | |||
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I havent tried this but someone else I know swears by the following method: Seat bullets out so they just crush into the rifling lands. Need to load individually, not from the mag usually. Rituals, yeah, with .17 Ackely Hornet so much I have been told or read doesnt work. I also stick to my tried and true methods. I am with you on that 1. | |||
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Hi , If you don't have one don't get one , I have several in CZ however I took them out through adjustments to the trigger.I think they are a pain in the big toe You get ready to squeeze a shot and you find you forgot to set the trigger. Also its mix and match how do you go back and forth between your standard triggers and a set two stage trigger. Bill | |||
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Go back to square one with the chamber and it will be fine, at least that has been the case in the last 6 I have had done ranging from 22/250AI to 257AI. And I might add that they are WELL worth it. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Accuracy is good enough. In fact, I think it is the best way to fireform. | |||
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So far I have gotten lucky and my fireform accuracy has been good. This has worked in my 257AI and when I make 7-30 out of 30-30, I'm not changing my process either. *we band of 45-70ers* USAF AMMO Retired! | |||
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